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quote: Originally posted by Dwayne W II:
Yet you could only name 3, and 2 of them aren't impressive at all. Marto had 10 knocks that were as you described
They were just the ones I highlighted from his pre-2001 period. The best part of his career didn't come until after he was recalled in 2001. His centuries in Adelaide and Sydney against South Africa in 01/2 played a crucuial part in setting up that 3-0 whitewash. His ton at Brisbane against India in 03/4 when the rest of the Aussies surrendered meekly. Or even more importantly, his century in the Sydney Test of that series that (along with Katich's efforts) allowed Australia to get away with a draw. Or his 190-odd in Perth a summer later against Pakistan when he all but carried his bat. Adam Gilchrist being the only man to offer any support. Away from home he was less successful. But I judge openers as openers. It's not just their job to score runs. It's also their job to take the shine off the ball and protect the lower order. I give credit for achieving this. A gutsy 30 at the top of the order is much more valuable to the team than a pretty 30 at number 6. Cheers. |
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I'm sure he got more runs in bad conditions than most of those "post 2000 Aus numbers 1-7". Easily better than dossie at the very least, and Mr Off-Stump....
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quote: Originally posted by Hass:
A gutsy 30 at the top of the order is much more valuable to the team than a pretty 30 at number 6.
Cheers.
A 'gutsy' 30 for an opener means they are scoring too slowly, and finding it too hard. A pretty 30 at number 6's value depends on the state of affairs when he comes to the crease. Not so for an opener. |
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Langer - at the end of the day, a fine player who made a fine contribution. To me, the innings that stand out are his debut 54, the 127 against Ambrose and Walsh at Antigua in 1999 and his 105 against England in 2005. But he played a number of other fine hands, and made an outstanding contribution to a superb opening pair. Team player extraordinaire. But comparable to Lawry, and/or better than Hayden? Come on. Be serious. Langer may reasonably claim to be better than Tubby Taylor and Michael Slater.
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'John and Kevin offered to settle their differences in the ring, but were forced to backflip after it became clear no-one wanted to see either of them in boxer shorts'
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quote: Originally posted by Leo:
Langer may reasonably claim to be better than Tubby Taylor
BLASPHEMER! |
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quote: Originally posted by Hass: quote: Originally posted by Dwayne W II:
Yet you could only name 3, and 2 of them aren't impressive at all. Marto had 10 knocks that were as you described
They were just the ones I highlighted from his pre-2001 period. The best part of his career didn't come until after he was recalled in 2001. His centuries in Adelaide and Sydney against South Africa in 01/2 played a crucuial part in setting up that 3-0 whitewash. His ton at Brisbane against India in 03/4 when the rest of the Aussies surrendered meekly. Or even more importantly, his century in the Sydney Test of that series that (along with Katich's efforts) allowed Australia to get away with a draw. Or his 190-odd in Perth a summer later against Pakistan when he all but carried his bat. Adam Gilchrist being the only man to offer any support. Away from home he was less successful. But I judge openers as openers. It's not just their job to score runs. It's also their job to take the shine off the ball and protect the lower order. I give credit for achieving this. A gutsy 30 at the top of the order is much more valuable to the team than a pretty 30 at number 6. Cheers.
Wow, centuries in Australia against India's mighty pace attack, I'm impressed  Marto did the same IN India, in far trickier conditions, to help us WIN the series, not just draw. MOTS when Australia finally won there, says it all. Not only is Martyn better away from home with a good record in ALL countries, but he has a far better record in the second innings. Most recent example - Martyn's chanceless 101 in South Africa on a seaming pitch to inflict South Africa's first home series whitewash in 100 years on them, while Langer was in hospital with a headache |
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quote: Originally posted by onetwentyfour: quote: Originally posted by Hass:
A gutsy 30 at the top of the order is much more valuable to the team than a pretty 30 at number 6.
Cheers.
A 'gutsy' 30 for an opener means they are scoring too slowly, and finding it too hard. A pretty 30 at number 6's value depends on the state of affairs when he comes to the crease. Not so for an opener.
And let's be honest, opening attacks since 2001 have largely been rubbish. There is really no such thing as a 'gutsy' 30 from an opener anymore, it's pretty much always a failure. |
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quote: Most recent example - Martyn's chanceless 101 in South Africa on a seaming pitch to inflict South Africa's first home series whitewash in 100 years on them, while Langer was in hospital with a headache
That kind of cheap shot screams 'hater'. |
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...but he's a nutter- one of the most fanatical loony tunes I've ever seen play for Australia, right up there Steve Waugh. He's got the eyes and dare say twisted mind of a killer. How he's going to survive without cricket I'll never know.
His runs come at too high a personal price- seriously he's going to have to be sectioned once he leaves the game.
Keep the Ashes, we'll have a nice dose of sanity.
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quote: Originally posted by Leo:
Langer may reasonably claim to be better than Tubby Taylor and Michael Slater.
Let's be serious for a moment. How mucha different are Slat's and Langer's records. Then look at the bowlers that they faced on a consistent basis. |
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quote: Originally posted by Pontoon: quote: Originally posted by Leo:
Langer may reasonably claim to be better than Tubby Taylor and Michael Slater.
Let's be serious for a moment. How mucha different are Slat's and Langer's records. Then look at the bowlers that they faced on a consistent basis.
I was comparing them as opening bats - so not counting Langs average of 39 pre-2001. Still close to Slats. Zimboks, Bangles and Windies are excluded from the below stats. Hayden and Langer are all innings where they opened since January 2001. MJ Slater - 74 tests, 5312 runs @ 43.15, 14 100s, 21 50s. JL Langer - 54 tests, 4345 runs @ 48.82, 14 100s, 14 50s. ML Hayden - 62 tests, 5654 runs @ 53.84, 20 100s, 22 50s And I don't think its unfair to point out that Slats cashed in against some ordinary opponents early in his career - notable are his 152 v England at Lords (1993), his 168 v NZ at Hobart (1993), the 176 v England at Brisbane (1994) and the 219 v Sri Lanka at Perth (1995). Played some fantastic innings too - 169 v Pakistan is the one I remember best - but I feel quite strongly that Langer has a right to be regarded as a better opener than Slater.
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'John and Kevin offered to settle their differences in the ring, but were forced to backflip after it became clear no-one wanted to see either of them in boxer shorts'
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Martyn >>>>> Langer  |
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To point out some of Slat's innings where he cashed in against some weak opposition will be a long and futile exercise if you want me to get started on some of the attacks Hayden and Langer have faced.
And why the selective stats?
Yes I admit that Langers debut match and also his efforts in the 4th test of the '99 Sir Frankie series are worthy of great innings.
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{snigger} CA need to get a life.
Gnome jibe at Langer upsets officials
January 3, 2007 - 8:14PM
An online commentary jibe which referred to Test opener Justin Langer as a gnome has prompted a fierce backlash from Cricket Australia.
Cricinfo, the world's most popular cricket website, on Wednesday made three puns about Langer's stature during its commentary of the second day of the fifth Ashes Test at the SCG, having also described the batsman as a "brown nose gnome" almost three years ago.
That previous reference, in February 2004, cost an online commentator his accreditation pass and his job and created a major rift between Cricket Australia (CA) and Wisden's online service.
Cricinfo said Langer would have been in "gnome-man's land" after he dropped a catch off England's Paul Collingwood in the first over of the day, and also provided a link to a newspaper article detailing the controversy from three years ago.
In two further puns, a reader pondered whether Langer would be a "metro-gnome" if he bowled like teammate Glenn McGrath, before Cricinfo's commentator asked for "gnome-more jokes though, please".
Langer will retire from Test cricket after this match, along with McGrath and Shane Warne.
CA slammed the commentary as juvenile, disrespectful and gratuitous, and sought a response from Cricinfo.
"This continues to demonstrate their juvenile and infantile approach to covering cricket, and it is disrespectful in the extreme," said CA spokesman Peter Young.
"It doesn't do their credibility any favours.
"If they wanted to be taken more seriously, then they need to reflect on how they approach things. This is gratuitous, infantile and shows a complete lack of maturity."
Cricinfo's commentary of this match is produced from London.
Cricinfo staffers in Sydney said there was no malice intended in the latest remarks, as the commentary provided was intended to be light-hearted and irreverent.
Cricinfo agreed to remove the link referring to the newspaper article.
Young said CA was satisfied with the response, and prepared to "move on".
The commentator who made the "brown nose gnome" jibe almost three years was reprimanded by CA and stripped of his accreditation pass, and later lost his job.
The incident put a wedge in the relations between the sporting body and the online service, which was licensed to produce CA's official website, baggygreen.com.au, at the time.
CA has since created its own website after being unable to control all editorial and advertising content on the baggygreen site.
CA spokesmen stressed the organisation had already decided to create its own site before February 2004.
The initial reference of Langer as a gnome was made during a domestic one-day match between Western Australia and Queensland.
The commentary read: "Edmondson to Maher, OUT: bit of a cross slog straight to the brown nose gnome at mid on."
The commentary was later removed, and Wisden apologised to Langer.
© 2007 AAP
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All i will say with langer is he's played attacks as good as anybody else who started in the 1990's.
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quote: Originally posted by Pontoon:
Yes I admit that Langers debut match and also his efforts in the 4th test of the '99 Sir Frankie series are worthy of great innings.
Surely his 99 hobart innings is in there? Facing saqlain waqar wasim akhtar(probably at least 800 test wickets between them when that game was played) on a 5th day pitch. |
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As poor as CricInfo is and please can someone come along and create the perfect cricket site, fact is, they are untouchable in terms of being the most popular cricket site in the world and are very powerful.
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I'd have liked him to linger longer.
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Yep sadly they are rubbish.
the childish abuse their "journalists" piled on australia pre series was uncalled for and a joke when they are supposed to be an official website.
They really only seem to cater for english indian and pakistani fans.
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quote: Originally posted by Fred Nerk:
He crapped all over Martyn and at least matched Hayden.
Agreed; from an outside perspective, I've always thought that Langer was a gutsy little bugger who made everything out of his talent, unlike say Martyn, Mark Waugh, Slats etc who tended to pi** it away a bit. The most underrated guy to score 7000 test runs, for sure. Even if he was jammy as all hell with the umpires! |
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quote: Originally posted by Comical Smoking Monkey:
Langer - better than Clarke, Hayden, Katich, Symonds and Martyn.
As well as Hodge & Symonds, BUT NOT AS GOOD AS THE MIGHTY BOOF!!!!!!! |
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quote: Originally posted by Pontoon:
To point out some of Slat's innings where he cashed in against some weak opposition will be a long and futile exercise if you want me to get started on some of the attacks Hayden and Langer have faced.
All good batsmen cash in against weak opposition. There have always been weak opponents to cash in against. The standard of bowling is lower now than in the 1990s - but not so much lower that it excuses away differentials as substantial as those here.
And why the selective stats?
When comparing Bob Simpson with other Australian openers, it is fairly standard to only count his average of 55 in that position. I believe Langer has been a different enough player (not merely the same player facing different bowling) since 2001 to warrant the same treatment.
Yes I admit that Langers debut match and also his efforts in the 4th test of the '99 Sir Frankie series are worthy of great innings.
Hayden is in there just to make the fundamental point that any of the standard ways of 'mix-n-match' statting still leave him well ahead of Langer.
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'John and Kevin offered to settle their differences in the ring, but were forced to backflip after it became clear no-one wanted to see either of them in boxer shorts'
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quote: Originally posted by JGK:
{snigger} CA need to get a life.
Gnome jibe at Langer upsets officials
January 3, 2007 - 8:14PM
An online commentary jibe which referred to Test opener Justin Langer as a gnome has prompted a fierce backlash from Cricket Australia.
Cricinfo, the world's most popular cricket website, on Wednesday made three puns about Langer's stature during its commentary of the second day of the fifth Ashes Test at the SCG, having also described the batsman as a "brown nose gnome" almost three years ago.
That previous reference, in February 2004, cost an online commentator his accreditation pass and his job and created a major rift between Cricket Australia (CA) and Wisden's online service.
Cricinfo said Langer would have been in "gnome-man's land" after he dropped a catch off England's Paul Collingwood in the first over of the day, and also provided a link to a newspaper article detailing the controversy from three years ago.
In two further puns, a reader pondered whether Langer would be a "metro-gnome" if he bowled like teammate Glenn McGrath, before Cricinfo's commentator asked for "gnome-more jokes though, please".
Langer will retire from Test cricket after this match, along with McGrath and Shane Warne.
CA slammed the commentary as juvenile, disrespectful and gratuitous, and sought a response from Cricinfo.
"This continues to demonstrate their juvenile and infantile approach to covering cricket, and it is disrespectful in the extreme," said CA spokesman Peter Young.
"It doesn't do their credibility any favours.
"If they wanted to be taken more seriously, then they need to reflect on how they approach things. This is gratuitous, infantile and shows a complete lack of maturity."
Cricinfo's commentary of this match is produced from London.
Cricinfo staffers in Sydney said there was no malice intended in the latest remarks, as the commentary provided was intended to be light-hearted and irreverent.
Cricinfo agreed to remove the link referring to the newspaper article.
Young said CA was satisfied with the response, and prepared to "move on".
The commentator who made the "brown nose gnome" jibe almost three years was reprimanded by CA and stripped of his accreditation pass, and later lost his job.
The incident put a wedge in the relations between the sporting body and the online service, which was licensed to produce CA's official website, baggygreen.com.au, at the time.
CA has since created its own website after being unable to control all editorial and advertising content on the baggygreen site.
CA spokesmen stressed the organisation had already decided to create its own site before February 2004.
The initial reference of Langer as a gnome was made during a domestic one-day match between Western Australia and Queensland.
The commentary read: "Edmondson to Maher, OUT: bit of a cross slog straight to the brown nose gnome at mid on."
The commentary was later removed, and Wisden apologised to Langer.
© 2007 AAP
Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Better to be called a gnome than a serial killer which he actually does resemble. |
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