quote:

Originally posted by B@sil:
Interesting choice of words in the same sentence there -"Bell" and "Attack"

I know it's poor form to laugh at one's own jokes, but I shamefully experienced mirth when I wrote that

To be fair, maybe he'll prosper further down the card. Time will tell.

quote:

Originally posted by Adelaide Al:
The England tail looks hella long, so numbers 6-11 will have been very happy with that stand of 200+.

It'll be interesting to see how they do now that the top order has done its job, for once. And if I see tomorrow that Hoggy came in at #9 with a declaration on the cards, I'll go

Very irritating day. Eng played well, kudos, but to drop 5 sitters is realy very annoying. The Pakistan team has only itself to blame for its precarious position in this test.

Mercurial Pakistan. Their batting will be under pressure here.

Whats the wicket like....

Flat as tbh. A bit of cloud cover up front allowed for some movement, but the dropped catches meant any such progress was quickly undone.

One has the feeling that its going to require a miracle for Pak to reassert themselves in this.

Sami was disasterous. Gul bowled well without luck. Ditto Danish.

Pitch is not flat!
It was helping everybody even Kaneria got a lot of turn and considering the fact that PAK was playing with their 2nd string attack i thought the bowlers did fairly well!
Both M Sami and U Gul could easily have ended up with 2 wickets each and Kaneria was also unlucky! PAK's fielding was simply dismal, i remember they missed 6 chances on the 3rd day's play at Faisalabad vs ENG so atleast they didn't break their record .

Fcxx,

The pitch is pretty good, pretty flat. There is no reason why a team shouldnt make runs save the overcast conditions which we didnt exploit in effect owing to the quality fielding. :/

no not two match threads again ....................................................................................................................................................................................

Wasnt the Pakster pace attack supposed to be unplayable in English conditions?

I think Test cricket in England in recent years has put paid to the traditional view that it favours bowling.

Batting is easier from a runs scoring point of view in England than it is in India.

quote:

Originally posted by Kartikeya:
Wasnt the Pakster pace attack supposed to be unplayable in English conditions?

Well - I think it was supposed to consist of three totally different bowlers.

quote:

Originally posted by Kartikeya:
Wasnt the Pakster pace attack supposed to be unplayable in English conditions?

I think Test cricket in England in recent years has put paid to the traditional view that it favours bowling.

Batting is easier from a runs scoring point of view in England than it is in India.

That was a suggestion with an attack of Asif, Akhtar and co. And "unplayable" was never the case. They would however in all reality perform better then the likes of Sami et al.

quote:

Originally posted by lardbucket:

quote:

Originally posted by Kartikeya:
Wasnt the Pakster pace attack supposed to be unplayable in English conditions?

Well - I think it was supposed to consist of three totally different bowlers.

That's not a bad point!+ it's only Day 1 for crying out loud!

I reckon if Pak had held all their chances they could've bowled England out today.

England can't be complacent either they can easily get done for under 400 given the crappy tail to come...

So long as Eng score 450 or less, Pak can consider themselves somewhat in the game. 500 + and its a case of surviving if possible for Pak.

One remains hopeful, however foolish that may be.

I would guess that the wicket will be at its best tomorrow - taking an increasing amount of spin thereafter. England will need to bat for at least two sessions to put the game beyond Pakistan.

My point was more about the batting friendliness of English wickets.

Asif for example did better in Asia with the ball than he has in England against county batting lineups.

Gul was very much part of the first choice bowling, and Sami according the Imran should always have been Pakistans first reserve bowler.

Shoaib is the only one whos missing. I agree he leaves a big hole, but he would stand to benefit less from English conditions than Gul and Asif.

Rana Naved would have been in the first choice XI as well if he was fit.

English wickets offer much more bounce than sub-continental wickets which should suit pace bowlers and you do still get the occasional green-top, in general swing is more in play as cloud cover can descend very quickly.

The reason you get less runs scored in the sub-continent is:

a) more turn for spinners
b) slower wickets, hard for batsmen to play their shots leading to more mistakes by the batsmen

I think 90% of the fast bowlers in world cricket would prefer English conditions to the sub-continent (there is always the odd exception like Vaas) because they can unsettle the batsman more and dictate their own terms at times.

btw, what is the point of Sami?

He used to be quick at least, that made up for his lack of bounce, inaccuracy, and lack of seam movement. But he isn't even that quick any more, bowling mid 80's mph which is only a fraction above Hoggard.

quote:

Originally posted by Kartikeya:
My point was more about the batting friendliness of English wickets.

Asif for example did better in Asia with the ball than he has in England against county batting lineups.

Gul was very much part of the first choice bowling, and Sami according the Imran should always have been Pakistans first reserve bowler.

Shoaib is the only one whos missing. I agree he leaves a big hole, but he would stand to benefit less from English conditions than Gul and Asif.

hmmm you talked about Asif's county form but ignored Rana? I suppose you forgot about him.

Well seeing how Asif is missing, its unfair to disect his efforts in this game. :/

Asif wouldn't be the first International bowler to hold something back in county cricket in preparation for bigger matches.

He's still managed to get injured though!

Shame, it would have been interesting to see him take the new ball this morning.

Imran Farhat is the worst player to play for Pakistan is recent years. Completely hopeless flasher with the bat and catches like a girl.

What was he doing during Jonty Rhodes' fielding sessions.

Get this pansy out the team.

quote:

Originally posted by kipemog:
Imran Farhat is the worst player to play for Pakistan is recent years. Completely hopeless flasher with the bat and catches like a girl.

What was he doing during Jonty Rhodes' fielding sessions.

Get this pansy out the team.

2 words “Over reaction “
BTW Farhat has made half centuries in his last 3 test matches!

The main thing is England have made pakistan pay for their dropped catches so far.

Interesting little factoid about yesterday's innings that I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere as yet, is that Alistair Cook, in his short Test career, has now scored centuries on debut against two Test nations, India & Pakistan. Whilst not unique this feat is relatively uncommon. I can only find two instances in Test history of batsmen, both English and neither making a century on Test debut, scoring a century on debut against three nations. The first is Denis Compton who made a century on debut against Australia (102 at Trent Bridge, 1938), West Indies (120 at Lord's, 1939) and South Africa (163 at Trent Bridge, 1947) and the other is Ken Barrington who made a century on debut against the West Indies (128 at Bridgetown, 1960), Pakistan (139 at Lahore 1961) and New Zealand (126 at Auckland, 1963). As the reference book from which I got these details is somewhat outdated (1998) I should be grateful if anyone knows of any further instances.

Tubby Taylor made tons on debut against 3 or 4 from memory...

And the Kiddie did it in 2004/2005.