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Kartikeya
One Gold Star
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quote:
Originally posted by Josh Carney:
TO can see that something does not add up but is scared of exploring into the suggested motives given his undevoted adoration of the player in question.

.....

Josh writes:

"Now a day ahead of the scheduled test the plug gets pulled, Sachin is declared fit and some wishy washy explanation is given. Don't you think that there is enough reason to suspect that the big dollars and sponsors behind Sachin band could have had something to do with this ?"



Too scared of what?

And what does not add up?

No there isnt any reason to suspect what youre suggesting.

Besides, wouldnt it actually hurt Tendulkars sponsorship prospects to pull out of his fitness Test like he did before the West Indies Tests?

You cannot assume that something wrongs and then try to justify it. Thats a very bad way of doing anything.
 
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Kartikeya
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quote:
Originally posted by Josh Carney:
Read this latest article from the Mumbai Mirror. How can he be fully fit if he cannot throw as before ? Not that it is a show stopper. Others have been able to get around with worse. What I am not happy about is the cover up statements.

link



Yes.. thats precisely the point. Some players are just too important - and are forced to continue playing even when injured because the team needs them.

Thats the nature of sport and thats the value of extraordinary skill.

Tendulkar doesnt do these things because hes dying to make an extra million dollars, he does them because his absence from the team sheet from injury in the middle of a series, gives the opposition a huge advantage.


And this is NOT heroworship - even your favorite Australians have done this - Waugh entered a Test Match on one leg in England in 2001, even though it was a dead rubber, was refused a runner - but still played. Because Waugh was important to Australia and Waugh wanted to play.

You seem to get caught up in these silly generalistic statements like "I want the best and fit Indian team to take the field. If Sachin is one of them great if not there are others it is not the end of the World."

Tendulkar at 50% is better than the next batsman available to India. Thats why he has the record that he has.


Besides Josh..... what exactly is your problem in this matter? Where is the so called "cover-up"??
 
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Kartikeya
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The list of great players who played with injuries is endless.

Michael Bevan - couldnt throw from the boundary to save his life. Yet, Josh Carney didn't suggest that he was playing purely to further phantom commercial interests.

Courtney Walsh couldn't throw from the boundary for the best part of a decade - Yet, Josh Carney didn't suggest that he was playing purely to further phantom commercial interests.

Wasim Akram - Played 7-8 years with Diabetes. Yet, Josh Carney didn't suggest that he was playing purely to further phantom commercial interests.


You do not seem to understand the nature of skill in international sport.
 
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Josh C
Two Gold Stars
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quote:
Originally posted by mready:
quote:
So why do you care so much if it is all up to Dravid only. Answer is simple if there are no fans to support there won't be a team.


I honestly dont see how u'r implication that our captain, Vice-captain, coach, physio, selction panel and our senior most Player being corrupt amounts to supporting.
I did not say that anywhere Vir.
 
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mready
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No. But I dont see how else Sachin can pull off this plan without all those people mentioned?

and what the hell is vir?
 
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Josh C
Two Gold Stars
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quote:
Besides Josh..... what exactly is your problem in this matter? Where is the so called "cover-up"??

My problem is that the Goal posts were changed a day before the scheduled and highly publicised fitness test.

That and the fact that one of the newspaper articles posing some tough questions has dissapeared.

If BCCI had come out and said that Sachin's batting has been tested satisfactorily in those charity games and also admitted that there are problems with his throwing arm and declared that it is still good enough for selection I would have been comfortable. There shouldn't have been these whitewash statements about being fully fit and so on.
 
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Josh C
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quote:
Originally posted by mready:
No. But I dont see how else Sachin can pull off this plan without all those people mentioned?

and what the hell is vir?
I thought you were Vir with a new alias my mistake.

As for your other question you should try and understand how Indian Cricket, BCCI etc. work and the kind of top down directives that have get pushed through.
 
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mready
Two Silver Stars
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As for your other question you should try and understand how Indian Cricket, BCCI etc. work and the kind of top down directives that have get pushed through.


I do...

And if what u say is true,

And if DRavid says nothing, what does that make him?

And if Selectors say nothing what does that make em?

And what does this whole episode make our physio?

Either its a big conspiracy that makes all look bad or u are just reading too much into nothing.
 
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Josh C
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Let me give you another example. The case of the selection of Sourav Ganguly for the last Pakistan tour. After his inceremonious dropping in the SL series there was big hue and cry and the issue was even raised in the Parliament. Sourav then visited BCCI president Powar for a so called friendly chat.

Sourav then gets selected for Pakistan.

Did you think that other forces were behind his selection and if the answer is yes does that imply that the selection committee, Captain, VC, Coach etc. etc. are all corrupt. Or was it a case of a simple top down directive being executed ?
 
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Kartikeya
One Gold Star
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quote:
Originally posted by Josh Carney:
quote:
Besides Josh..... what exactly is your problem in this matter? Where is the so called "cover-up"??

My problem is that the Goal posts were changed a day before the scheduled and highly publicised fitness test.

That and the fact that one of the newspaper articles posing some tough questions has dissapeared.

If BCCI had come out and said that Sachin's batting has been tested satisfactorily in those charity games and also admitted that there are problems with his throwing arm and declared that it is still good enough for selection I would have been comfortable. There shouldn't have been these whitewash statements about being fully fit and so on.



But wheres the whitewash? BCCI is allowed to change its plans you know - and without your permission.
 
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mready
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And in Saurav's case, the proof was very clear. And he got dropped after that.

Why is the proof not so obvious now?

You are just proving urself wrong by bringing Saurav's case.
 
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mready
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And as far as captain, coach and others wrt Saurav's case...just look at the way he was handled. The captain, coach and selection panel did not want him but was given a last chance to go out gracefully since he did serve India admirably.
 
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Kartikeya
One Gold Star
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quote:
Originally posted by Josh Carney:
Let me give you another example. The case of the selection of Sourav Ganguly for the last Pakistan tour. After his inceremonious dropping in the SL series there was big hue and cry and the issue was even raised in the Parliament. Sourav then visited BCCI president Powar for a so called friendly chat.

Sourav then gets selected for Pakistan.

Did you think that other forces were behind his selection and if the answer is yes does that imply that the selection committee, Captain, VC, Coach etc. etc. are all corrupt. Or was it a case of a simple top down directive being executed ?


No its not.

His selection for the Pakistan tour was valid. Upto that point, Sourav Ganguly had been dropped from the ODI side but NOT from the Test side. He had made a hundred in Zimbabwe (a bad one), and then gone off injured, after which he missed the SL Test series.

Ganguly was subsequently selected for the Pakistan series because he was merely returning from injury.

Meanwhile, Yuvraj Singh emerged as as a batsman in the form of his life in the ODI's in Pakistan, which lead to his moving ahead of Ganguly in the Test pecking order.

After which Ganguly was not amongst the top 8 Test batsmen in the country. Hence he had to be dropped for the England series.


THAT was when he went to meet Sharad Pawar.

He didnot meet Sharad Pawar before the Pakistan Test series.


So the selection vis a vis Ganguly has been consistent. Ganguly first lost his place in the ODI side, then in the Test side. He didnot lose his place in the Test side when he lost the India captaincy.

Besides Josh..... just because YOU cannot explain something, does not mean that it is corrupt. That is the nature of selection - it is a judgement, not exact science.
 
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Kartikeya
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Similarly in the case of Tendulkar here - BCCI changed its mind in the matter - or rather i think John Gloster did, and decided there was no need for a fitness Test, because he probably knows better than anyone else in the world by now what Tendulkars level of fitness is, having managed Tendulkars rehab from surgery.

Fitness Tests are carried out to find out about the fitness level of a player. If the person whos job it is to find out about the fitness level of a particular player has been treating and managing that player for 4 months, then the fitness test becomes redundant.
 
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Kartikeya
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Besides Josh - BCCI has stated categorically that it is the opinion of John Gloster than Tendulkar is fit - not the opinion of Niranjan Desai.
 
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Josh C
Two Gold Stars
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quote:
Originally posted by Kartikeya:
quote:
Originally posted by Josh Carney:
Let me give you another example. The case of the selection of Sourav Ganguly for the last Pakistan tour. After his inceremonious dropping in the SL series there was big hue and cry and the issue was even raised in the Parliament. Sourav then visited BCCI president Powar for a so called friendly chat.

Sourav then gets selected for Pakistan.

Did you think that other forces were behind his selection and if the answer is yes does that imply that the selection committee, Captain, VC, Coach etc. etc. are all corrupt. Or was it a case of a simple top down directive being executed ?


No its not.

His selection for the Pakistan tour was valid. Upto that point, Sourav Ganguly had been dropped from the ODI side but NOT from the Test side. He had made a hundred in Zimbabwe (a bad one), and then gone off injured, after which he missed the SL Test series.

Ganguly was subsequently selected for the Pakistan series because he was merely returning from injury.

Meanwhile, Yuvraj Singh emerged as as a batsman in the form of his life in the ODI's in Pakistan, which lead to his moving ahead of Ganguly in the Test pecking order.

After which Ganguly was not amongst the top 8 Test batsmen in the country. Hence he had to be dropped for the England series.


THAT was when he went to meet Sharad Pawar.

He didnot meet Sharad Pawar before the Pakistan Test series.


So the selection vis a vis Ganguly has been consistent. Ganguly first lost his place in the ODI side, then in the Test side. He didnot lose his place in the Test side when he lost the India captaincy.

Besides Josh..... just because YOU cannot explain something, does not mean that it is corrupt. That is the nature of selection - it is a judgement, not exact science.
This was not you take at all at that time. You certainly have jumped ships since it suits you now. You are thrashing around. Go check the date from the internet as to when Ganguly met Powar.

You have been spitting venom against Sourav the last few months and now you want to put him on a pedestal. At least be consistent.
 
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Josh C
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Originally posted by mready:
And as far as captain, coach and others wrt Saurav's case...just look at the way he was handled. The captain, coach and selection panel did not want him but was given a last chance to go out gracefully since he did serve India admirably.
Did the Captain and Coach say they did not want him ? or are you drawing your own conclusions based on some evidence ie. the very thing you are opposed to me doing in this instance.
 
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Josh C
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So the selection vis a vis Ganguly has been consistent. Ganguly first lost his place in the ODI side, then in the Test side. He didnot lose his place in the Test side when he lost the India captaincy.

Again get your facts right. Ganguly was dropped half way through the SL test series and then reinstated for the Pak tour.
 
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mready
Two Silver Stars
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quote:
Did the Captain and Coach say they did not want him ? or are you drawing your own conclusions based on some evidence ie. the very thing you are opposed to me doing in this instance.


I am sorry but Ganguly not being in the team now is proof enough?!!

If they wanted him, what stopped em from getting Ganguly into the team?
 
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Josh C
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His selection for the Pakistan tour was valid. Upto that point, Sourav Ganguly had been dropped from the ODI side but NOT from the Test side. He had made a hundred in Zimbabwe (a bad one), and then gone off injured, after which he missed the SL Test series.

Go check the scorecards Ganguly played in the first two tests and was then dropped in the SL series, he did not miss the SL series.

You get too emotional when it comes to Sachin that and start posting some much factual and logical absurdity in his defence that it is not even funny !
 
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Josh C
Two Gold Stars
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quote:
Originally posted by mready:
quote:
Did the Captain and Coach say they did not want him ? or are you drawing your own conclusions based on some evidence ie. the very thing you are opposed to me doing in this instance.


I am sorry but Ganguly not being in the team now is proof enough?!!

If they wanted him, what stopped em from getting Ganguly into the team?
I am talking about that Pakistan tour, how did you come to the conclusion that he was not wanted by the Captain ? His not being in the current team proves nothing with respect to that tour.
 
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mready
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OK JOsh, u win.

Sachin is a evil, twisted and a pathetic individual whose only aim to destroy Indian cricket for his financial gains.

U convinced me Big Grin
 
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Josh C
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quote:
Originally posted by mready:
OK JOsh, u win.

Sachin is a evil, twisted and a pathetic individual whose only aim to destroy Indian cricket for his financial gains.

U convinced me Big Grin
Mready good to see that you have sense of humour.

It may just be that I am somebody who reads too much between the lines. Can never rule that out.
 
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mready
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