I mean fair dinks, he's been quite a successful coach for England. He made some muck ups for this series and perhaps needs to review the way he does things, but would you drop a champion player for one bad series or would you give him a chance to make amends?
You would if he was seen walking out to bat with the bat upside down, and despite all around him pointing out the error, he insisted on batting with it that way up for the whole series.
Particularly if at the end of it all, he insisted that it was the 'right tactic' and sometimes these things work, and sometimes they don't.
It's partly his own fault - his unwavering devotion to his own opinion regardless of any other conflicting evidence left him totally exposed should things go tits up.
It also left him without any allies, having alienated the selectors, the counties and much of the media.
He could get away with it while the going was good, but he was always going to get it in the neck (or that floppy bit under his chin) at the first sign of trouble.
But I don't think he's solely to blame for the shambles of a series. He's made mistakes - pig-headed mistakes.
He's not the reason why we lost the series, though. He's just the easiest to blame.
I bet Fletcher is feeling sorry for Fletcher. He knows what poms are like. Somebodies head will have to be served up on a platter to appease the masses.
Got to admit I feel a little sorry for him. The worst sides of Fletcher's character have been highlighted over the last few months and he may be reaching his sell by date as England coach, but having grown up watching the late 80's early 90's England team I appreciate what he's done for the side. England 2006 are a vastly improved side to the team he took over in 1999. Some of the claims made on this forum and in the newspapers about Fletcher suggest people have short memories. Particuarly naive is the idea that England's sucesses of recent years are soley due to the captain and the players while the failures of this series are soley due to Fletcher.
Originally posted by Gildas: Got to admit I feel a little sorry for him. The worst sides of Fletcher's character have been highlighted over the last few months and he may be reaching his sell by date as England coach, but having grown up watching the late 80's early 90's England team I appreciate what he's done for the side. England 2006 are a vastly improved side to the team he took over in 1999. Some of the claims made on this forum and in the newspapers about Fletcher suggest people have short memories. Particuarly naive is the idea that England's sucesses of recent years are soley due to the captain and the players while the failures of this series are soley due to Fletcher.
It's the footballisation (possibly not a word) of cricket since the last Ashes - every fairweather fan and his dog now has an opinion on sport they didn't even know existed pre-2005.
And, as with football, it's always the manager that carries the can. No matter how shite the players play, it's the manager's fault.
It was Sven Goran Eriksson's fault that Beckham lost two yards of pace and became nothing more than a glorified corner taker. It was the manager's job that Lampard couldn't hit a cow's backside with a banjo. It was, amazingly, all down to Sven that Rooney stamped on Carvalho's nuts and got himself sent off. He was 'frustrated' at the coach's tactics, his apologists claimed.
In hindsight, all coaches make some mistakes - Fletcher, like Sven, is no different in that regard.
But it's ridiculous to saddle them with total and utter resposibility for failure - especially as, in good times, it's the only the players that get the plaudits.
Originally posted by Nasty, brutish, and short: Bit amusing how he was hailed a hero for most of the last 15 months by most of the poms on here. Now he's Neville Nobody.
Very true NBS ... and credit where it's due. The guy did do a masterful job of cobbling together a bunch of rookies whom, under a focused captain, he toughened up into a tight unit who were good enough to wrest back the Ashes in 2005.
But his sheer bloodyminded 'heels-dug-in' approach to selection matters this series has left a helluva lot to be desired. That fact alone casts a shadow over his past achievements and has advanced his sell-by date by several months.
And he's never been any bloody good at ODI coaching anyway ... not that that matters too much.
Originally posted by Jay Dello: It's the footballisation (possibly not a word) of cricket since the last Ashes - every fairweather fan and his dog now has an opinion on sport they didn't even know existed pre-2005.
And, as with football, it's always the manager that carries the can. No matter how shite the players play, it's the manager's fault.
It was Sven Goran Eriksson's fault that Beckham lost two yards of pace and became nothing more than a glorified corner taker. It was the manager's job that Lampard couldn't hit a cow's backside with a banjo. It was, amazingly, all down to Sven that Rooney stamped on Carvalho's nuts and got himself sent off. He was 'frustrated' at the coach's tactics, his apologists claimed.
In hindsight, all coaches make some mistakes - Fletcher, like Sven, is no different in that regard.
But it's ridiculous to saddle them with total and utter resposibility for failure - especially as, in good times, it's the only the players that get the plaudits.
err no. He's made mistake after mistake both before and during this series and thats on top of his laughable selection policy for the ODI team
And at the end of the day its the coach's responsibity
Eng are now a fractured, disinterested unit with low morale and splits in the camp. It needs Micky Vaughan back as captain, a new team coach and better batting/bowling coaches
This will of course happen when we are knocked out of the world cup by Bangladesh
err no. He's made mistake after mistake both before and during this series and thats on top of his laughable selection policy for the ODI team
David Graveney and Geoff Miller are also responsible for selection - and could out-vote Fletcher on any issue should they do wish.
And the selection of the final XI on tour would seem to come down to a combination of coach, captain and a handful of senior players.
To suggest that England's selection policy is "his" and his alone would be to ignore the facts entirely.
quote:
And at the end of the day its the coach's responsibity
What is? Defeat? That's all on him?
In which case, winning the Ashes - as he did - and losing only two series in the last eleven (or whatever the record is) is also down to him.
Or is only every bad peformance down to the scapegoat... I mean, coach, while every good performance is due to, say, the captain or a handful of 'world class' players?
You can't have it both ways. It's hardly the coach's fault that England's batsmen have looked so gutlessly inept out there in the heat of battle. That's about heart, stomach for the fight, temperament under pressure - the areas where England have failed so miserably.
The individual players have to carry the can for that, surely.
quote:
It needs Micky Vaughan back as captain,
... average of 33 for the last three years...
quote:
a new team coach
Who? Who is better? Name names.
quote:
and better batting/bowling coaches
Who? It's a bit simplistic to demand that we get 'better' this and 'better' that in order to become a 'better' team. If it was that easy, and the solutions were so obvious, then every side would be getting 'better' by the day.
I don't think Fletcher's covered himself in glory during this series, and there's some merit to the suggestion that everyone has a shelf-life and that a change can bring a new impetus and energy into a dressing room.
But I don't subscribe to this spiteful, knee-jekry, tabloidy, football-culture of hanging out the manager (or coach) to dry as though he and only he is the sole cause of all the world's ills.
Originally posted by Jay Dello: He's not the reason why we lost the series, though. He's just the easiest to blame.
It’s his team picking in the first two tests that was the biggest reason we lost the series so heavily.
The selection of Giles and Jones in the first test was a big vote of no confidence in the batsmen. It also seemed like we were trying to play for a draw from the beginning. It was just mind bogglingly stupid however you look at it.
Is sympathy appropriate..... this was billed as the next big sporting contest of the century, however full credit to those two avuncular Aussies: McGrath & Warne.
ECB now have enough time to assemble and train a team to recapture the urn in 2009. Lots of blood and toil will be needed, the pusillanimous need not apply.
