Ashley Giles on a par with Graham Norton???

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Smith:
someone who is on a par with the likes of Graham Norton.

In terms of bowling ability?

quote:

Originally posted by Owzat:
Maybe he and Glenda can train together, around some handily placed balls of course

Theres a rumour that Glenda quite likes Ashley's balls. The entire Aussie team wish he'd just pop those babies in his mouth and shut up motivating the rest of the England team!

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Smith:
I am writing all your names in my little black book. When Ashley bowls England to success I will be the first to say 'I told you so'.

He's playin g the Zimbos?

Orthodox spinners, tend to average 35-40 these days. Ashley was edging toward 35 before his injury began to restrict him in the middle of the Ashes series, and thereafter in Pakistan. Not too far away from Vettori, often described as the best orthodox spinner in international cricket.

Obviously, he's no Derek Underwood. But it is fair to point out that the bats and the shorter bounderies (and the covered pitches) do make it a shade tougher now. Giles continually beat Langer and Hayden through the air at the Oval but the new bats ensured the mistimed drive carried to safety. I know a few of you will laugh at that. But it's what happened.

I'm not claiming that you can win many series with a set of bowlers who average around 40. He relied on the seamers to do the bulk of the work, even in the middle overs. But again, this is what I mean about people only being able to see what he didn't do, and being blind to what he actually does. I remember a poster saying he was crap at Edgbaston in the Ashes. He took 6 top order wickets and added 50 runs with KP. How is that crap? In emphasising his failure to finish them off on the last day, a fine contribution has been completely ignored. Same sort of thing at Trent Bridge.

I always struggle to understand how and why a set of fans who have watched England (in tests) go from being absolutely useless, to a top quality side capable of beating the best can be so harsh toward one of the men who have made that happen. Every team has weaker players, but it is those sort of players getting the best of themselves that turn matches, and series. As we saw last summer. Ashley has been a key figure in this journey.

Someone said he is a lumbering outfielder. True, he is slow. But he has an excellent throw.

I don't understand why flight/loop is just erm, schizzle? Spinners take more wickets through the air than they do with turn. Don't they? I mentioned on this thread that he gets decent drift late on. Monty's a good bowler of course. No problem with that.

But it disappoints me to hear people being so critical of Ashley Giles. For the first time since I was a kid, we've got a team to really believe in. When will we ever be satisfied? If Monty's better, then fantastic. But why use that as a means to rubbish a player who has taken 150 test wickets for us.

quote:

Originally posted by Val Xavier:
I don't understand why flight/loop is just erm, schizzle? Spinners take more wickets through the air than they do with turn. Don't they? I mentioned on this thread that he gets decent drift late on. Monty's a good bowler of course. No problem with that.

But it disappoints me to hear people being so critical of Ashley Giles. For the first time since I was a kid, we've got a team to really believe in. When will we ever be satisfied? If Monty's better, then fantastic. But why use that as a means to rubbish a player who has taken 150 test wickets for us.

If you're talking to me, I was saying that whoever said he doesn't flight the ball was bullshtting.

As for the rest of the piece. I AM NOT SLATING GILES >>>>>>>>> I HAVE A PREFERENCE FOR A BETTER BOWLER!!!!!!!

Well said Val. Cricket is a team game. Many on here do not recognise this fact. Chess is a solitary game.
Ashley is a team man. Why oh why is this held up for ridicule?
People are also forgetting his mental fortitude - at coming back from injury and the fact he has seen off every other spinner in the country (I accept this is not the greatest feat in the world!)
Wait until the new fully fit Ashley Giles is unveiled before slagging him. I suspect he will look a lot better with his new 360 degree hip back in full revolving mode.
He has the respect of the whole team, his coach, the Aussies, in fact just about everyone except the Channel 4 forum!!

I raise my bat to the crowd as I reach 500!!

I disagree. There haven't been many Aussies on here 'respecting' him and the Aus players, even the tailenders, showed him no respect by smacking him over the boundary rope in a consistant manner.

Bobby Smith -
I was going to initialize that - but thought better of it ...

And all down to Ashley The King of Spain!
Well done!

Round of applause for the 500, Bobby.

I wasn't responding especially to you Ngam. Just to the general mood of the thread really.

Dave, you have a point there. But which wich non wrist spin/doosra bowler in world cricket averages less than 35? Or any English spinner since Deadly?

If Monty comes back from Australia with 10 wickets at 57, will he get slaughtered by the fans? I hope not.

Vettori averages 34 I think- the likes of Edmonds and Emburey 20 odd years ago averaged about 34 and 37 from memory.

quote:

Originally posted by Val Xavier:
Dave, you have a point there. But which wich non wrist spin/doosra bowler in world cricket averages less than 35? Or any English spinner since Deadly?

If Monty comes back from Australia with 10 wickets at 57, will he get slaughtered by the fans? I hope not.

Harbhajan does, as does Boggle-Eyes, as does Monty for that matter. I wouldn't discount the first two from this discussion just because they can bowl doosras. The fact that they can and Giles can't is to Giles' detriment, not theirs.

Monty has played 10 Tests, Giles has played 52. Monty is still finding his feet in Test cricket whereas Giles has found his and one of them is pointing in the wrong direction. FFS, Chris Gayle has a better Test bowling average than Giles and he laughs at himself when he takes wickets.

For the sake of argument- Murali is a cheat and doesn't Harby average about 40 outside of India? Monty is very early in his career, but is clearly a better bowler than Gilo, no question.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Pastry:
FFS, Chris Gayle has a better Test bowling average than Giles and he laughs at himself when he takes wickets.

Funny as fk.

Giles could cheat too if he wanted to - Murali has paved the way for him.

Harbhajan may average near 40 outside of India, but Giles averages near 40 everywhere. I'm not going to get into selective stats to try and prove that Ashley Giles is a better bowler than Harbhajan Singh, that's just silly.

I see you have no comment on the Chris Gayle comparison though.

Sorry Bliks missed that one- fair point and they do a similiar job.

Context though, as always, is everything. Gilo plays a vital role in the most successful England team for 20 odd years, knows his role and sticks to it. THats why stats don't do full justice to his function in the team.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Pastry:
Giles could cheat too if he wanted to - Murali has paved the way for him.

Harbhajan may average near 40 outside of India, but Giles averages near 40 everywhere. I'm not going to get into selective stats to try and prove that Ashley Giles is a better bowler than Harbhajan Singh, that's just silly.

I see you have no comment on the Chris Gayle comparison though.

On a slight aside Bliks- who was the last conventional finger-spinner to take wickets at under 30 on all surfaces? I'd guess you'd have to go back to the 70s other than Roger Harper.

quote:

Originally posted by Rob:
Sorry Bliks missed that one- fair point and they do a similiar job.

Not really. Gayle is an opening batsman who has a bowl for a laugh because the Windies have no other slow bowler worth diddly-starfish. And he still does a better job than Giles, who's picked specifically for his bowling. England would do better to have Kevin Pietersen work on his bowling a little and pick an extra batsman.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Pastry:

quote:

Originally posted by Rob:
Sorry Bliks missed that one- fair point and they do a similiar job.

Not really. Gayle is an opening batsman who has a bowl for a laugh because the Windies have no other slow bowler worth diddly-starfish. And he still does a better job than Giles, who's picked specifically for his bowling. England would do better to have Kevin Pietersen work on his bowling a little and pick an extra batsman.

They do- both bowl alot of overs and keep it tight. England have the luxury of having a fast bowler who can bat in the top 6, meaning that they can play a spinner who is accurate and spells the quicker bowlers. Not convinced KP would ever be consistent enough to bowl 40 odd overs in an innings and only go for 3 runs per over or so. They tried that with Hick once or twice and it didn't work.

quote:

Originally posted by Rob:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Pastry:
Giles could cheat too if he wanted to - Murali has paved the way for him.

Harbhajan may average near 40 outside of India, but Giles averages near 40 everywhere. I'm not going to get into selective stats to try and prove that Ashley Giles is a better bowler than Harbhajan Singh, that's just silly.

I see you have no comment on the Chris Gayle comparison though.

On a slight aside Bliks- who was the last conventional finger-spinner to take wickets at under 30 on all surfaces? I'd guess you'd have to go back to the 70s other than Roger Harper.

I believe Arshad Khan has a reasonable average and he's pretty recent. Colin Miller? What was Tim May's average? Might be a bit over 30. Venkatapathy Raju? Pat Symcox?

Just joking about that last one there...

haven't had a chance to read the entire thread, but it seems to me that the general opinion is that giles is crap.
how quickly we forget his winning runs at trent bridge under extreme pressure, and his stand with KP at the oval when england were staring down the barrel...he got 50-odd and hung around for couple of hours while we as a nation were bricking ourselves.
so that meant nothing then??
he's not the bowler panesar is. but there's no way we would have won either of those two games had it been monty at the crease. oz would have won both those matches most probably.
give credit where it's due. he's a solid cricketer, with mental toughness. sometimes it takes more than talent.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Pastry:

quote:

Originally posted by Rob:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Pastry:
Giles could cheat too if he wanted to - Murali has paved the way for him.

Harbhajan may average near 40 outside of India, but Giles averages near 40 everywhere. I'm not going to get into selective stats to try and prove that Ashley Giles is a better bowler than Harbhajan Singh, that's just silly.

I see you have no comment on the Chris Gayle comparison though.

On a slight aside Bliks- who was the last conventional finger-spinner to take wickets at under 30 on all surfaces? I'd guess you'd have to go back to the 70s other than Roger Harper.

I believe Arshad Khan has a reasonable average and he's pretty recent. Colin Miller? What was Tim May's average? Might be a bit over 30. Venkatapathy Raju? Pat Symcox?

Just joking about that last one there...

HAd forgotten about Miller will check- May 32ish maybe? Symo just scared people......

quote:

Originally posted by beefy botham:
haven't had a chance to read the entire thread, but it seems to me that the general opinion is that giles is crap.
how quickly we forget his winning runs at trent bridge under extreme pressure, and his stand with KP at the oval when england were staring down the barrel...he got 50-odd and hung around for couple of hours while we as a nation were bricking ourselves.
so that meant nothing then??
he's not the bowler panesar is. but there's no way we would have won either of those two games had it been monty at the crease. oz would have won both those matches most probably.
give credit where it's due. he's a solid cricketer, with mental toughness. sometimes it takes more than talent.

Strange how a bowler keeps getting praised for making a few runs...

Conversely, had Monty been playing maybe Australia would not have scored so much to begin with?