FFS Mal Loye has been called up. Lets call up Ronnie Irani and Dougie Brown whilst we're at it. They fit the requirements of being mid 30's and past their best.
Why is it that England are only calling up guys like Nixon and Loye now? Surely if they were ever considered good enough to play for England, they would have been called up 6-7 years ago?
Owais Shah must be pulling his hair out, and considering doing a 'Mark Vermeulen' and burning down Fletchers house.
average of 21 in the two games he played and now he's injured again.
Stupid move bringing him back and no suprise it's backfired.
Not only is he an average one day player it should have been clear to everybody that he's no longer fit enough for top level crcket, he moved like a 45 year old in the field.
He's never been the most agile of fieldsmen. And since 2002, his knees have been a constant worry. Its just the way it is. Still, I dont think you can deny that Vaughan at his best as a batsman and Captain is worth his place in the side.
Often it happens that a player who is coming back from a serious injury quickly suffers another, unrelated injury because their body is compensating for the original injury.
Originally posted by Mr Watermelon: He's never been the most agile of fieldsmen. And since 2002, his knees have been a constant worry. Its just the way it is. Still, I dont think you can deny that Vaughan at his best as a batsman and Captain is worth his place in the side.
test cricket, maybe but his fitness is surely a worry he's been out for a year and made it through just two games you can't just ignore that fact.
One day cricket well no chance.
He has neither the runs on the board or the wins as skipper to prove he has earnt a place in one day cricket.
Originally posted by DJ_Smerk: My Team for Friday...
Bell Loye Strauss Collingwood Flintoff Joyce/Bopara Nixon+ Lewis Panesar Tremlett Anderson
If Strauss is not an opening option, then let Loye have a chance to open with Bell and see how he gets on. I think persistance with Joyce is good but if Bopara was to be chosen for a debut it would be awesome . Finally, considering Dalrymple hardly did anything on a slow turning pitch in Hobart, I personally don't think he'll do much in Brisbane, so I propose to give Tremlett a go, however, Plunkett is first in line so don't expect Tremors anytime soon. . Shame that.
A Little Hard Work never killed anyone....but why take the chance?
Because like us, the selectors watch domestic OD cricket. We watch as Loye utterly takes apart anybody on his day against the swinging or seaming ball, later on against the spinners etc. He was nothing like he is 6-7 years ago and wasn't worth a punt like he was in Test cricket back then.
Name another specified OD opener in England of the same calibre at the minute.
As for Nixon, likewise. His batting has come on quite a bit since then, and back then there was Stewart going strong and this new youngster, Chris Read, was supposed to be 'dead great'.
Why now Trev?
Because England are pretty much duff in the OD arena, most of their players can't say they have a right to a place, there's a WC in 2 months and it's a panic time to get rid of the deadwood and find their replacements...
Given the paucity of options its a fair call- fault of the counties for employing Kolpak rubbish rather than English youngsters. Coming home to roost.....
Ive caught a fashion from the dreams of tapirs But woke up sweating from this modern nightmare
Originally posted by DJ_Smerk: Sorry are you speaking 2 me? Im Sean not Trev sorry.
Nope. Talking to the author.
quote:
Originally posted by MoC: Given the paucity of options its a fair call- fault of the counties for employing Kolpak rubbish rather than English youngsters. Coming home to roost.....
Yerra fule meht. The Kolpaks haven't taken anyone's place that they don't deserve. The have improved the standard of cricket played especially in the OD form of the game.
Originally posted by Comical Smoking Monkey: Yerra fule meht. The Kolpaks haven't taken anyone's place that they don't deserve. The have improved the standard of cricket played especially in the OD form of the game.
Couldn't agree more- there are 18 counties FFS - if a young kid is good enough he'll get a place.
For me the biggest problem for county cricket are the journeyman never be good enough players who play FC cricket for 10-15 years and still hang around in their mid 30's
What the journeyman Kolpak rubbish like Joe Scuderi? Yeah really improved the standard of play. Look at Grant Flower- he averages less than 30 at test level ffs..... that salary would be better spent on grassroots cricket rather than some washed up hack.
Ive caught a fashion from the dreams of tapirs But woke up sweating from this modern nightmare
Originally posted by JKLever: Couldn't agree more- there are 18 counties FFS - if a young kid is good enough he'll get a place.
For me the biggest problem for county cricket are the journeyman never be good enough players who play FC cricket for 10-15 years and still hang around in their mid 30's
Too right JKL. Probably, if you look at the top performers of the last 3 years, you'll find plenty of Kolpaks in the upper echelons.
quote:
Originally posted by MoC: What the journeyman Kolpak rubbish like Joe Scuderi? Yeah really improved the standard of play. Look at Grant Flower- he averages less than 30 at test level ffs..... that salary would be better spent on grassroots cricket rather than some washed up hack.
Random examples may work in a court of law Rob, I don't know, but on here random examples are countered with more examples - such as Johann Louw, Lance Klusener, Andy Flower, Phil Jacques, Deon Kruis, Nic Pothas, Ian Harvey etc. who have all been Kolpaks. They've all performed at a higher standard, giving our English chaps a tougher examination...
Nic Pothas a higher standard than most county keepers? Pull the other one.
Its faintly pathetic that certain counties can do nothing but employ a load of mercenaries who contribute nothing to the game and pocket a pay cheque which would be better spent on developing the game in schools. Its a typical case of the tail wagging the dog- garbage counties like Derbyshire should be shut down, meaning that the pool of players is thereby reduced, and a higher standard of play would result accordingly.
Ive caught a fashion from the dreams of tapirs But woke up sweating from this modern nightmare
You're saying nothing different Rob, not really making a point - apart from "grunt, I'm a big county supporter, I'm not happy about how England have just played, even though three men have played badly for them - it's the other countie's fault with their evil Kolpaks."
When the fact is, all you've done is slate a OD keeper that has pretty much superceeded the standard of our other keepers in List A format. Which is pretty stupid.
Originally posted by JKLever: Couldn't agree more- there are 18 counties FFS - if a young kid is good enough he'll get a place.
For me the biggest problem for county cricket are the journeyman never be good enough players who play FC cricket for 10-15 years and still hang around in their mid 30's
Too right JKL. Probably, if you look at the top performers of the last 3 years, you'll find plenty of Kolpaks in the upper echelons.
quote:
Originally posted by MoC: What the journeyman Kolpak rubbish like Joe Scuderi? Yeah really improved the standard of play. Look at Grant Flower- he averages less than 30 at test level ffs..... that salary would be better spent on grassroots cricket rather than some washed up hack.
Random examples may work in a court of law Rob, I don't know, but on here random examples are countered with more examples - such as Johann Louw, Lance Klusener, Andy Flower, Phil Jacques, Deon Kruis, Nic Pothas, Ian Harvey etc. who have all been Kolpaks. They've all performed at a higher standard, giving our English chaps a tougher examination...
Ok. I'm gonna sit on the fence here, not something i normally do.
Danny you have a point that someone like Andy Flower, Klusener, Harvey, Jaques will very much increase the level of competition and in that respect Kolpaks are of use for those youngsters who are good enough to get into sides as it aids their education in Professional Cricket.
However Rob, has a very valid point. Players like Henderson, Scuderi, Kruis, Louw who lets be fair are not high quality Kolpak players are not needed in the game, as they are taking higher paychecks and places of younger English players, who 'could' be making their way in CC.
Danny- Derbys have about 8 or 9 Kolpak players on their books. And yet they are still rubbish. Do you really think that they contribute anything to the standard of county cricket? The counties are allowed 2 overseas players each at the moment anyway, and yet they are entirely self-seeking in their signing of these players. You claim they contribute to a higher standard of county cricket, and yet the paucity of talent is demonstrated by some of the names in the provisional world cup squad. Can you honestly say that county cricket is any stronger now than it was 10 years ago before the advent of Kolpak players?
Ive caught a fashion from the dreams of tapirs But woke up sweating from this modern nightmare
What's that? Johann Louw? 38 @ 18 - econ: 4.23? Who's done as good as that? No-one, because it's a record I hear you say? 27 @ 25 good enough? 20 @ 29?
Have Leics got a good spinner ready and waiting? Did Northants have a good pacer that's flourishing now that Louw's gone? Neh. Though they'll play here taking lower pay than the dross like journeymen....
Northants - Mark Nelson's not good enough yet, should we play him instead of Lancie Zulu K?
Absolutely Charles- a player of the calibre of Curtly Ambrose- no complaint at all with him playing. Not some hack who only comes over here to make a quick buck and who is barely fc standard.
Ive caught a fashion from the dreams of tapirs But woke up sweating from this modern nightmare
Originally posted by MoC: Danny- Derbys have about 8 or 9 Kolpak players on their books. And yet they are still rubbish. Do you really think that they contribute anything to the standard of county cricket? The counties are allowed 2 overseas players each at the moment anyway, and yet they are entirely self-seeking in their signing of these players. You claim they contribute to a higher standard of county cricket, and yet the paucity of talent is demonstrated by some of the names in the provisional world cup squad. Can you honestly say that county cricket is any stronger now than it was 10 years ago before the advent of Kolpak players?
Ah, OK Rob. Can you tell me these 9 Kolpaks? There's Botha - who's a decent batting SLA and Greg Smith who's never played for them. Who're the others?
Originally posted by Comical Smoking Monkey: What's that? Johann Louw? 38 @ 18 - econ: 4.23? Who's done as good as that? No-one, because it's a record I hear you say? 27 @ 25 good enough? 20 @ 29?
Have Leics got a good spinner ready and waiting? Did Northants have a good pacer that's flourishing now that Louw's gone? Neh. Though they'll play here taking lower pay than the dross like journeymen....
Northants - Mark Nelson's not good enough yet, should we play him instead of Lancie Zulu K?
Danny, i've just had a quick look on cr@pinfo, and hopefully you'll get my point a bit better.
Someone like: Kruis, Louw, C Henderson they have played for at least 2 maybe 3 provincial sides in SA, they have also played here for probably 2 county sides and together have a total of 7 tests between them with some pretty poor stats.
However Klusener has played 41 tests, and 171 ODI's.
That is my point. I have no issue with Klusener being a Kolpak, because the guy is quality, his career stats at international level proove it, same with A Flower etc..
But players like Kruis etc are not of that quality and I would rather they were not employed in FC cricket in the place of a youngster, who may even be not as good, becaus it will improve their game IMO in the majority of instances.
. Finally, considering Dalrymple hardly did anything on a slow turning pitch in Hobart, I personally don't think he'll do much in Brisbane, so I propose to give Tremlett a go, however, Plunkett is first in line so don't expect Tremors anytime soon. 
. Shame that.
