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quote: Originally posted by holcs:
I hadn't realised He did actually try to lose weight.
Aye, he was 'svelte' for a season or so, the fat gits piled it on again now. He might see Cosgrove as a hero  |
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quote: Originally posted by holcs:
Its alot of the other counties whom I believe are using Kolpaks instead of promoting/developing youth?
Dunno really Chas, the ones I think of are people like Leics(Henderson, ackerman, rosenborg, gibson, allenby) yet they're producing people of the calibre of New and Broad, maybe even Walker. Someone like Essex(Flowers, Ten Doschate etc. Chambers[not sure]) but they're producing Bopara, Chopra, Ahmed, Pettini, maybe Palladino. I do see both sides, but I'm just not sure it's how we discussed. We did go off on a massive tangent etc. Hard to keep track in fact... |
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Rob KEy lost a couple of stone, or so he claimed, last season. Didn't Sales used to field in the slips mainly? Never struck me as particularly agile.....
Ive caught a fashion from the dreams of tapirs
But woke up sweating from this modern nightmare
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quote: Originally posted by MoC:
Rob KEy lost a couple of stone, or so he claimed, last season. Didn't Sales used to field in the slips mainly? Never struck me as particularly agile.....
He doesn't have to be agile in comparison to Key. However, no. He fields at extra cover and midwicket. Sometimes the slips, sometimes cover point. I wasn't on about last season with the weight loss, it was his first year as captain - about 4 years ago. Around the time Blobs was getting a sporadic game or three... |
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quote: Originally posted by Comical Smoking Monkey: quote: Originally posted by holcs:
Its alot of the other counties whom I believe are using Kolpaks instead of promoting/developing youth?
Dunno really Chas, the ones I think of are people like Leics(Henderson, ackerman, rosenborg, gibson, allenby) yet they're producing people of the calibre of New and Broad, maybe even Walker. Someone like Essex(Flowers, Ten Doschate etc. Chambers[not sure]) but they're producing Bopara, Chopra, Ahmed, Pettini, maybe Palladino. I do see both sides, but I'm just not sure it's how we discussed. We did go off on a massive tangent etc. Hard to keep track in fact...
Aye. Keeping track is hard. I'm not so sure we will see the potential damage Kolpaks do for a couple of seasons, as the ruling wasn't that long ago I believe. I think the worry thing will be in 2-3 years, when these players start perhaps not appearing as well as the Kolpakers. Of those you mentioned only two maybe will IMO break through to be a quality player at the highest level: Broad and Chopra. The others will be cc players only. On the flip side, Derby have the 16 yo batter and the rest are Kolpaks and journeymen I believe.
**** DC Nash for Ingerlaand****
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Flowers influence as a kolpak player has been so bad that England called him in to do some coaching  Chambers is English btw. |
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Another example that if you are good enough, there is always a space for you in the county game.
Will Jefferson - was injured at the beginning of the season and came back midway through it. Couldn't displace the kolpaker TenDoescatcrap because his form in the 2nd's was woeful.
Instead of fighting hard he had a major sook and threw all his toys out of the pram.
However this didn't stop Notts picking him up because they think he's good enough. Hence - plenty of possibilities for Englisg players to play if they prove to be good enough.
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quote: Originally posted by JKLever: Flowers influence as a kolpak player has been so bad that England called him in to do some coaching Chambers is English btw.
JK, I did make the exception earlier on I believe that there will allways be exceptions. Flower, Law guys of their ilk who are over here for ptrolonged periods, will generally be loyal, and helpful in the development of their respective clubs. Flower is of course an unbelievably good player and as such any information he could impart may well be invaluable. Hopwever my point is more those guys who are not in the class of those two. Those like Kruis or Louw etc.. who in my mind are only here to make money, and are never going to be good enough or of high enough quality to play internationally and are a such leeching a living from our county system which could be better spent on potential english players/youngsters etc.
**** DC Nash for Ingerlaand****
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quote: Originally posted by JKLever:
Another example that if you are good enough, there is always a space for you in the county game.
Will Jefferson - was injured at the beginning of the season and came back midway through it. Couldn't displace the kolpaker TenDoescatcrap because his form in the 2nd's was woeful.
Instead of fighting hard he had a major sook and threw all his toys out of the pram.
However this didn't stop Notts picking him up because they think he's good enough. Hence - plenty of possibilities for Englisg players to play if they prove to be good enough.
Case in point. I'd be mighty peeved if I were him to. The guy was touted as quality, then got injured, then came back and had some non event kolpaker in his spot. Notts wanted him and he left. Fair Enough IMO.
**** DC Nash for Ingerlaand****
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quote: Originally posted by holcs:
Case in point. I'd be mighty peeved if I were him to. The guy was touted as quality, then got injured, then came back and had some non event kolpaker in his spot.
Notts wanted him and he left. Fair Enough IMO.
Not strictly true. He was sacked - Notts picked him up after he was released. Also - he didn't want to fight to get his place back against someone who was showing good form at that stage of the season. Wrong attitude IMO, a little indication of the softness of county cricket. |
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quote: Originally posted by holcs:
Aye. Keeping track is hard.
I'm not so sure we will see the potential damage Kolpaks do for a couple of seasons, as the ruling wasn't that long ago I believe.
I think the worry thing will be in 2-3 years, when these players start perhaps not appearing as well as the Kolpakers.
Of those you mentioned only two maybe will IMO break through to be a quality player at the highest level:
Broad and Chopra.
The others will be cc players only.
On the flip side, Derby have the 16 yo batter and the rest are Kolpaks and journeymen I believe.
Chas, but then, it's not your place to decide who'll make it - the point you were making was that 'England need a large pool of players, that the Kolpaks are taking up spaces within'. I put forward promising young players at Kolpak laced CCCs. Whether or not they're good enough is partially down to them, if they work hard and are good enough, they'll displace the Kolpaks - who'll get unloyally dumped by the counties. I, personally, see less Kolpaks than the massive influx of 2004(or 3 or 2) I can't remember. |
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quote: Originally posted by JKLever: quote: Originally posted by holcs:
Case in point. I'd be mighty peeved if I were him to. The guy was touted as quality, then got injured, then came back and had some non event kolpaker in his spot.
Notts wanted him and he left. Fair Enough IMO.
Not strictly true. He was sacked - Notts picked him up after he was released. Also - he didn't want to fight to get his place back against someone who was showing good form at that stage of the season. Wrong attitude IMO, a little indication of the softness of county cricket.
Soft perhaps? Maybe a mixture of the problems of Kolpaks and the attitude of FC cricketers perhaps? I believe this type of thing will become more common place as well.
**** DC Nash for Ingerlaand****
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p.s. I find:
38 wickets at an average of sub 20, with an economy of 4.05 - a record(in a format of the game where we're exceptionally poor) good enough to be worth a place.
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Are people seriously telling me that the likes of Louw playing county cricket is not raising the standard when wasters like Richard Logan can get picked up by his 3rd county?
For me it's the dross we need to get rid of - those who blatently aren't going to make it and simply clog up the system for 10 years.
Those players should be playing minor counties.
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quote: Originally posted by Comical Smoking Monkey: quote: Originally posted by holcs:
Aye. Keeping track is hard.
I'm not so sure we will see the potential damage Kolpaks do for a couple of seasons, as the ruling wasn't that long ago I believe.
I think the worry thing will be in 2-3 years, when these players start perhaps not appearing as well as the Kolpakers.
Of those you mentioned only two maybe will IMO break through to be a quality player at the highest level:
Broad and Chopra.
The others will be cc players only.
On the flip side, Derby have the 16 yo batter and the rest are Kolpaks and journeymen I believe.
Chas, but then, it's not your place to decide who'll make it - the point you were making was that 'England need a large pool of players, that the Kolpaks are taking up spaces within'. I put forward promising young players at Kolpak laced CCCs. Whether or not they're good enough is partially down to them, if they work hard and are good enough, they'll displace the Kolpaks - who'll get unloyally dumped by the counties. I, personally, see less Kolpaks than the massive influx of 2004(or 3 or 2) I can't remember.
Me deciding who'll make it was a side issue sorry. However, the point is I would rather those promising young players given the chance to play cricket NOW. Not having to displace a Kolpak. The point is the Kolpak shouldn't be there in the first place IMO. Before Kolpaks, you had young players given the chance to play FC cricket at young ages. Most were given in my experience 2 years to prove they could make it. Nowadays, they may not even get that chance as there is some foreign guy in the spot they may have otherwise got, who may well be decent at FC level, now that to me hinders a players progress. How do you expect players to progress in 2nd XI cricket?
**** DC Nash for Ingerlaand****
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quote: Originally posted by JKLever:
Are people seriously telling me that the likes of Louw playing county cricket is not raising the standard when wasters like Richard Logan can get picked up by his 3rd county?
For me it's the dross we need to get rid of - those who blatently aren't going to make it and simply clog up the system for 10 years.
Those players should be playing minor counties.
Aye, Journeymen FC players have also been discussed and should be booted. BTW, he got panned by a rep side last year as well! And we were just a bunch of good premier league cricketers!
**** DC Nash for Ingerlaand****
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quote: Originally posted by JKLever:
raising the standard when wasters like Richard Logan can get picked up by his 3rd county?
  Exactly. I honestly cannot believe it. He was a useful all-rounder when he left us, a better bowler and batsman and yet we've picked up this utter waste of space because we can't afford anyone decent as they have an elevated status of themselves and want too much money for being mediocre.... |
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There'll never be enough homegrown talent to support a high or even just adequate level of competition between 18 first class teams in this country without a serious influx of foreign talent.
In the case of the mighty 'rey, they have on absolute filthmonger of a bogus overseas player, though not technically a Kolpaker(?), in the form of Mohammed Akram. At the same time the Academy of Dreams hasn't churned out a bowler worth five fingers of love for many a year. I'm very sceptical if the talent's out there to be usurped by the evil immigrant cricketing workers in the first place.
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quote: Originally posted by holcs:
Me deciding who'll make it was a side issue sorry.
However, the point is I would rather those promising young players given the chance to play cricket NOW. Not having to displace a Kolpak. The point is the Kolpak shouldn't be there in the first place IMO.
Before Kolpaks, you had young players given the chance to play FC cricket at young ages. Most were given in my experience 2 years to prove they could make it.
Nowadays, they may not even get that chance as there is some foreign guy in the spot they may have otherwise got, who may well be decent at FC level, now that to me hinders a players progress.
How do you expect players to progress in 2nd XI cricket?
We're going round and round Chas. Personally I'd much rather MVJ taking up a spot than Rob "Slog" White, who just swings away. MVJ would build an innings, making it harder for the possibly young up-and-coming opposition bowler to get him out - maybe aiding his development . Also aiding the team by getting more runs. Rob White was a revelation in the 2nds, but (it seems to me) wasn't/isn't prepared to stick around at the higher level - he was/is either get in or get out. Why does he deserve a place instead? Not that we've got MVJ, so it's likely that Rob will get a mass of run-a-ball 20s-40s doing himself or the team no favours whatsoever. |
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quote: Originally posted by Toga:
There'll never be enough homegrown talent to support a high or even just adequate level of competition between 18 first class teams in this country without a serious influx of foreign talent.
In the case of the mighty 'rey, they have on absolute filthmonger of a bogus overseas player, though not technically a Kolpaker(?), in the form of Mohammed Akram. At the same time the Academy of Dreams hasn't churned out a bowler worth five fingers of love for many a year. I'm very sceptical if the talent's out there to be usurped by the evil immigrant cricketing workers in the first place.
Tom, alot of the lack of seamers is to do with the pitches in Surrey being in the majority slow, low turners. No wonder no bugger wants to bowl fast!
**** DC Nash for Ingerlaand****
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Interesting everyone is putting the boot into the journeyman players- what about the likes of Peter Such and Alex Wharf who moved countys before getting international recognition? Such cases go to show that players can improve and peak later- whereas by picking a Kolpak buffoon, you are both depriving a youngster of a potential place, as well as removing the possibility that one of the players you are decrying will improve sufficently to be worth a place. Incidently- why isn't Wharf playing in the OD stuff now? Could hardly be worse than the current lot......
Ive caught a fashion from the dreams of tapirs
But woke up sweating from this modern nightmare
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quote: Originally posted by Comical Smoking Monkey: quote: Originally posted by holcs:
Me deciding who'll make it was a side issue sorry.
However, the point is I would rather those promising young players given the chance to play cricket NOW. Not having to displace a Kolpak. The point is the Kolpak shouldn't be there in the first place IMO.
Before Kolpaks, you had young players given the chance to play FC cricket at young ages. Most were given in my experience 2 years to prove they could make it.
Nowadays, they may not even get that chance as there is some foreign guy in the spot they may have otherwise got, who may well be decent at FC level, now that to me hinders a players progress.
How do you expect players to progress in 2nd XI cricket?
We're going round and round Chas. Personally I'd much rather MVJ taking up a spot than Rob "Slog" White, who just swings away. MVJ would build an innings, making it harder for the possibly young up-and-coming opposition bowler to get him out - maybe aiding his development . Also aiding the team by getting more runs. Rob White was a revelation in the 2nds, but (it seems to me) wasn't/isn't prepared to stick around at the higher level - he was/is either get in or get out. Why does he deserve a place instead? Not that we've got MVJ, so it's likely that Rob will get a mass of run-a-ball 20s-40s doing himself or the team no favours whatsoever.
Aye. Tis a problem with this type of debate! AS I said before at the beginning, I can see both sides. All I want is the never gonna make it never made it Kolpakers not to be involved. Law, Harvey, Flower A etc... Brilliant for the county game. But IMO anyone who was never at or never will get to their standard are harming not aiding FC cricket! That ok as a summary?
**** DC Nash for Ingerlaand****
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quote: Originally posted by holcs:
Aye. Tis a problem with this type of debate!
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