quote:

Originally posted by WIFAN:
Yeah that 2000 tour was a nightmare. I remember Lara being out of form, and Ganga looking like a dear caught in the headlights.

Interestingly the West Indies last tour of Australia was probably as competitive as the current ashes. In fact Windies may have come close to winning the last test if it wasn't for umpiring controversies.

But I put that down to an awful display by England on this tour more than anything else, and I fully expect to be thrashed by England in May. It will be another tour of individual highlights rather than team. Our last tour of England saw the emergence of Dwayne Bravo as a special talent. Lets hope WI find a 3rd seamer to compliment Taylor and Collymore this time. A decent spinner wouldn't be to shabby either.

If England have a very bad world cup and the weather is better than average, then the Windies will have what boxing fans call a punchers chance. Their seam bowlers are almost as good as England's on anything other than an early season sticky, but their batting would let them down on anything other than a road - Lara, Shiv and Gayle are good, but the remainder don't seem to move their feet!

We have a number of FTB's unfortunately so helpful wickets will be difficult for us.

However I wouldn't mind seeing the damage Taylor could cause on a helpful wicket, considering how well he has been doing on slow low pitches in the subcontinent.

Jonty- no would only play FLints if he can bowl- not consistent enough with the willow to be a specialist batter.

Agreed about Taylor. Quality.

I'm wary of JT, Sree, Munaf and Steyn coming over here. Think they could all be a little spesh.

The future is looking bleak, even without Warne Australia will continue to whitewash all the test sides in cricket home and away. I think India are probably best equipped to give them a test. They are performing well in South Africa and I believe they may well turn England over in the summer.

Really any test series involving the Aussies is going to be a huge turn-off, looking forward to England-India as that will be a competitive closely fought series.

Can't believe England will lose at home to India- batting was in pretty good nick last summer. Having Vaughan back will make a massive difference as well- I reckon 2-0 to England.

Depends how up for it England are, they were very lacklustre against Sri Lanka and they may well be deflated even further after the World Cup.

quote:

Originally posted by Kam:
Really any test series involving the Aussies is going to be a huge turn-off, looking forward to England-India as that will be a competitive closely fought series.

An australia without Warne,McGrath & Langer i can see sides matching more often than not.

Can see India doing well in England - although much will hinge on the batting of Dravid/Sehwag/SRT.

1-1 draw possibly

Yet they were very effective against Pakistan- and more pertinently, England have been rubbish at the OD stuff for years, but that hasn't stopped them being a pretty good test side.

They were meant to be annihalated by India at home yet even with an understrength side they got a draw.

Maybe they should recall Shaun Udal?

quote:

Originally posted by Mo-Mo:
Can see India doing well in England - although much will hinge on the batting of Dravid/Sehwag/SRT.

1-1 draw possibly

Those 3 will probably score a large enough total along the way for Kumble to win a test.

For me, it's all about what sort of attack England put out.

Australia will have bragging rights for decades even if we do win the ashes back. There will be no coming back from this unless we do the same to them, which lets be honest, will never happen.

Ashes aside, I still think English cricket has a bright future. KP is going to be one of the worlds best batsmen for the next ten years, we finally have a young, talented spinner in Panesar, Cook looks like he will be a solid opener for the next decade and Tremlett/Broad look like good prospects. We have a good foundation to be one the worlds best teams for the next few years and have a great chance of winning the ashes back in 2009 if the prepartion is right.

But we still lost an ashes series 5-0. Personally I think that this is the most humiliating thing that has happened to English cricket in my life time, worse than when we were bottom of the rankings, and I'm going to be embarassed to be an England supporter for quite some time.

quote:

Originally posted by JKLever:

quote:

Originally posted by Mo-Mo:
Can see India doing well in England - although much will hinge on the batting of Dravid/Sehwag/SRT.

1-1 draw possibly

Those 3 will probably score a large enough total along the way for Kumble to win a test.

For me, it's all about what sort of attack England put out.

I think it purely depends on how we bowl as you say JK.

The Indian Batters haven't been in the best of nick recently, well not to their usually very high standards.

I can see us winning 2-0 if our bowling is up to scratch if not, then I think it will be draw infested. I don't see the Indian bowling to be anywhere near as potent as even the Pakistani lineup of the last couple of test last summer.

Cook looks anything but solid to me. I used to think he was, but the one deficiency I noticed has turned horrible for him. He's a wafter. He plants his feet and pushes at the ball away from his body. It doesn't take a mental or physical genius to get him doing that. He's out on his ear as far as I'm concerned. He's Mr. 20 against any sort of bowler. Come back Tres, all is forgiven...

quote:

Originally posted by Comical Smoking Monkey:
Cook looks anything but solid to me. I used to think he was, but the one deficiency I noticed has turned horrible for him. He's a wafter. He plants his feet and pushes at the ball away from his body. It doesn't take a mental or physical genius to get him doing that. He's out on his ear as far as I'm concerned. He's Mr. 20 against any sort of bowler. Come back Tres, all is forgiven...

Danny he wasn't as bad as he has been in this series at it. I think thats just because th aussie bowlers have bowled so consistently well. Which other attacks have that consistency?

Its something he can work on. I think he's a good number 3 but he's not an opener.

quote:

I don't see the Indian bowling to be anywhere near as potent as even the Pakistani lineup of the last couple of test last summer.

The Indian bowling attack is stronger than the Pakistani attack (without Asif/Shoiab, as was the case in England). This is primarily because Kumble will pose more of a threat than Kaneria...

But as you said, the Indian batting is not as formidable as in previous years, and this was one of the main reasons why England managed a drawn series away. However the current SA series could be a turning point for India's test fortunes...

quote:

Originally posted by JKLever:

quote:

Originally posted by Kam:
Really any test series involving the Aussies is going to be a huge turn-off, looking forward to England-India as that will be a competitive closely fought series.

An australia without Warne,McGrath & Langer i can see sides matching more often than not.

Aus always seem to have a conveyer belt of talent, certainly Clark looks like he will step into McGrath's shoes and do a good job. Warnie will be missed.

quote:

Originally posted by Mo-Mo:

quote:

I don't see the Indian bowling to be anywhere near as potent as even the Pakistani lineup of the last couple of test last summer.

The Indian bowling attack is stronger than the Pakistani attack (without Asif/Shoiab, as was the case in England). This is primarily because Kumble will pose more of a threat than Kaneria...

But as you said, the Indian batting is not as formidable as in previous years, and this was one of the main reasons why England managed a drawn series away. However the current SA series could be a turning point for India's test fortunes...

In my post i mentioned the last 2 tests when both shoib and asif played.

Thats what I was referring too. But yes without those two India are probably slightly better, purely because of Kumble.

quote:

Originally posted by Comical Smoking Monkey:
Cook looks anything but solid to me. I used to think he was, but the one deficiency I noticed has turned horrible for him. He's a wafter. He plants his feet and pushes at the ball away from his body. It doesn't take a mental or physical genius to get him doing that. He's out on his ear as far as I'm concerned. He's Mr. 20 against any sort of bowler. Come back Tres, all is forgiven...

He hasn't had the best series, but he is still young and is clearly very talented.

quote:

Originally posted by holcs:
Danny he wasn't as bad as he has been in this series at it. I think thats just because th aussie bowlers have bowled so consistently well. Which other attacks have that consistency?

Its something he can work on. I think he's a good number 3 but he's not an opener.

Basically this: He hadn't been around long enough to be worked out properly. The Aussies did it, a few of us on here outlined what his single problem could be, and they have made it into an art form. Who could trouble him with consistancy? Anyone. Stick it on the spot and watch him feel for one.

Asif, Taylor, Collymore, Munaf, Sreesanth - whoever. He needs to do some serious work and he needs to do it elsewhere than Test crickers....

quote:

Its something he can work on. I think he's a good number 3 but he's not an opener.

I agree. Although not sure if his recent poor run of form is more to do with the strength of the opposition (rather than batting position). But he looked more composed at number 3.

FWIW the batting should be something like this:

Strauss
Vaughan(c)
Cook
KP
Shah(Collingwood)
Bell
Flintoff
Read

Like others have said, if Flintoff is not fit enough to play as part of a four man attack, he shouldn't play at all - it disrupts the balance of the team when a 5th bowler has to be selected to accomodate him.

quote:

Originally posted by vilkrang:
He hasn't had the best series, but he is still young and is clearly very talented.

I agree he's talented, in the brains moreso. His shot selection is limited and although I think he'll go on to have a successful England career that doesn't mean he should be guaranteed a place and it doesn't mean he should be allowed to work out his deficiencies at the highest level. Bell was the same, to an extent he's improved.

quote:

Originally posted by Comical Smoking Monkey:

quote:

Originally posted by holcs:
Danny he wasn't as bad as he has been in this series at it. I think thats just because th aussie bowlers have bowled so consistently well. Which other attacks have that consistency?

Its something he can work on. I think he's a good number 3 but he's not an opener.

Basically this: He hadn't been around long enough to be worked out properly. The Aussies did it, a few of us on here outlined what his single problem could be, and they have made it into an art form. Who could trouble him with consistancy? Anyone. Stick it on the spot and watch him feel for one.

Asif, Taylor, Collymore, Munaf, Sreesanth - whoever. He needs to do some serious work and he needs to do it elsewhere than Test crickers....

Danny, none of those bowlers are in the class of Mcgrath or Clarke (on form).

He does need some work, but it isn't as serious as I think your making it.

quote:

Originally posted by holcs:

quote:

Originally posted by Mo-Mo:

quote:

I don't see the Indian bowling to be anywhere near as potent as even the Pakistani lineup of the last couple of test last summer.

The Indian bowling attack is stronger than the Pakistani attack (without Asif/Shoiab, as was the case in England). This is primarily because Kumble will pose more of a threat than Kaneria...

But as you said, the Indian batting is not as formidable as in previous years, and this was one of the main reasons why England managed a drawn series away. However the current SA series could be a turning point for India's test fortunes...

In my post i mentioned the last 2 tests when both shoib and asif played.

Thats what I was referring too. But yes without those two India are probably slightly better, purely because of Kumble.

I realised you were referring to the "last 2 tests" but I think you're mistaken. Asif missed the first 3 tests and only played in the last test; meanwhile Shoiab did not feature at any point of the series.

Pakistan's attack for the 3rd test was Sami/Gul/Nazir/Kaneria - India definitely have the edge.