There are many reasons why children/adults get ill and the world changing and becoming more modern is alot to blame.

Do you use a microwave to heat your childs milk/food or even own one? this can cause cancer and there have been proven links, even people that make microwaves steer clear of them as they know the risks, especially if your microwave leaks.

do you give your child things with sweeteners to save their teeth from decay? you are probably feeding your child aspartame which is a poisonous sweetener you find in cola which they are currently trying to ban in America (you'd be surprised what aspartame is in).

do you own a mobile phone? or even a digial phone (New research into this) phone masts are assumed to cause cancer, and the amount of evidence is actually quite scary.

in the paper today, it said being on the pill increases your chances of having cervical cancer due to an STD.

obesity can lead to diabetes and many other medical conditions.

we can all say we wanted to do our best for our children, but the fact is, we probably haven't.

by the way, there was no worries about FF when i had my children.

Also, in almost every kid's food nowadays you can find MSG's (monosodium glutamate) which is a poison, it is in practically everything now, even crisps. This has been put on some foods as a warning.

Nobody is saying that FF will kill your children, although it could make them ill if you don't sterilise things properly or make the feeds up wrong. I'm no expert on FF as I've never done it but, to me, it seems like so much damn effort for no good reason.
All anyone here is trying to point out (to those who will not/refuse to see) is that you have breasts designed to feed your babies so you ought to use them for that.
Your milk is BEST. FF milk is NOT BEST.
It's not exactly rocket science to work that out is it?

by Nickycky: "Sod's law is not an actual law! You won't take up smoking on the basis that you knew a smoker who lived to 90, will you? There will always be children who run across roads without looking and don't get run over, and children who follow the green cross code and get hit by a drunk driver - doesn't mean you should let your kids play in the road now does it??"

Nickycky - Well said...

(I've copied the comments below from one of my previous thread, as they're very relevant to this discussion - apologies if you've seen them b4)

How many mums out there would leave hospital with their newborn baby and let them ride in a car without a safe baby seat? ... and yet how likely is it that they will crash & their baby will sustain severe injury's as a result of this one journey? ... highly unlikely, but it's just not worth the risk!!

Jet the Jinx - I'd be interested to know if you'd take this risk??

Bf provides the best nutrition possible,protects our babies from the possibility of suffering specific illnesses that can be very severe, and these are just the things that science has already 'proved' time and time again. Research also suggests that there is loads of other 'good stuff' in colostrum/breastmilk that they haven't been able to analyse yet... is NOT bf a risk worth taking?

Despite the fact that 2% of mums cannot bf for medical reasons, and a small number of other mums cannot bf for other genuine reasons, I still see no reason why their babies should do without breastmilk. We already have 'breastmilk banks' in this country which are currently reserved for very ill/premature babies who need brest milk to survive, (doesn't this say something in itself when they can't survive on formula). This means we would be perfectly capable of providing every baby in this country with breast milk if we really wanted to. Don't get me wrong, it's better for a baby to be bf by their own mother, as our milk naturally 'adjusts' to meet our babies needs- but donor breastmilk would be the next best thing.

However, please don't think that I am trying to make mums who try to bf but end up ff feel guilty!! As I've said on loads of previous threads, it is very difficult to bf when those around you, (medical staff, family, friends etc), are unable to provide the intensive support that many mums need. My own experiences of bf are probably only helpful to a pretty small number of mums. But if loads and loads of mums all keep talking about their own experiences, and the facts about bf, then we'll all keep learning more and more stuff thats relevant to us as individuals.

Bf support groups are great - it's really good to see that your not alone & that other mums struggle too. It's even better to see these mums get past their struggles and become happy and confident bfeeders. This can really dispel the feeling that ‘failure’ is imminent after a few difficult feeds – it becomes easier to believe that things will get better soon, and constantly reinforces all your positive feelings about bf.

Bf shouldn’t only be a topic that’s talked about once we become mums: if our own children grow up seeing and hearing about bf as a matter of course, they will have much more background knowledge and an in-built confidence in their own ability to bf when the time comes. Self-belief at the outset, and an awareness of the common problems that occur, will allow mums to quickly source effective help when they need it rather than feeling fearful and alone.

I really hope to see the day when every baby gets the breastmilk they deserve, and ff is 'wiped off the map' becomes mums don't want it !

quote:

Originally posted by oranjeboom:
Nobody is saying that FF will kill your children, although it could make them ill if you don't sterilise things properly or make the feeds up wrong. I'm no expert on FF as I've never done it but, to me, it seems like so much damn effort for no good reason.
All anyone here is trying to point out (to those who will not/refuse to see) is that you have breasts designed to feed your babies so you ought to use them for that.
Your milk is BEST. FF milk is NOT BEST.
It's not exactly rocket science to work that out is it?

actually, some people were saying that and saying that it makes babies ill etc. i didn't want to BF so why should that be a problem to people on here? i made the feeds up right, i didn't mind sterilizing bottles, i didn't mind spending the money on milk, so why should i be spoken to like i made the worst decision someone ever has?

i guess i'm just not a lazy person either.

quote:

Originally posted by johnny&bump:
by Nickycky: "Sod's law is not an actual law! You won't take up smoking on the basis that you knew a smoker who lived to 90, will you? There will always be children who run across roads without looking and don't get run over, and children who follow the green cross code and get hit by a drunk driver - doesn't mean you should let your kids play in the road now does it??"

Nickycky - Well said...

(I've copied the comments below from one of my previous thread, as they're very relevant to this discussion - apologies if you've seen them b4)

How many mums out there would leave hospital with their newborn baby and let them ride in a car without a safe baby seat? ... and yet how likely is it that they will crash & their baby will sustain severe injury's as a result of this one journey? ... highly unlikely, but it's just not worth the risk!!

Jet the Jinx - I'd be interested to know if you'd take this risk??

do you think i'm stupid or something?? what a dumb question to ask.

oh, it's also against the law to have babies in cars without a belt, it's not against the law to feed babies FM

quote:

Originally posted by jet the jinx:
it's not against the law to feed babies FM

Shame.

Jet, thanks for the info about microwaves. I shall look into that - if the link is PROVEN, and not only from leaky microwaves, I shall start warning people, and get rid of my microwave.

No, I won't be giving my child sweeteners or MSG laced foods if I can avoid it. I use my mobile rarely - although it's the masts that are the problem, no the phones themselves. Another thing that should be looked at.

Technically, the paper got it wrong - it isn't being on the pill that gives you an STD - it's not using a condom when sleeping with someone with an STD. This is actually quite a good simile. It's not using formula that's the problem so much as failure to use breastmilk.

Obesity - more likely for ff than bf babies.

All good points - we do all want to do our best for our kids, we all make mistakes. When we KNOW we are making a mistakes, we should do something about it.

Oh, and I know I shouldn't post this, but I can't resist...

quote:

Originally posted by jet the jinx:
as i've had no down sides from FF then i still don't believe breast is best and noone on earth could ever sway me otherwise.

and

do you think i'm stupid or something?? what a dumb question to ask.

my friend has been there, her son went into a hypoglycemic coma due to a drop in blood sugar because she had problems breastfeeding (latching on / staying on / being so small he'd just fall asleep / she got mastitis and thrush). At that point she stuck a bottle in....he NEEDED the goodness of it. Yes, in a perfect world we would all breastfeed. But surely the child's MEDICAL needs should come first

would you still tell her to breastfeed then i wonder.

me no its personal choice weather we breastfeed or bottlefeed and if do give the breastfeeding a go and it doesnt work out we dont want someone breathing down our necks saying you could of at least tried longer.

just my thoughts

Everyone on the FF-defence is missing the point.
What is being pointed out, time and time again, is not "OMG you are an evil harridan for bottlefeeding" it is that we are disgusted that there is not a decent support network to help mothers to successfully breastfeed.

The main reason that women find it so difficult to do the most natural thing ever is because FF is seen as the norm - on tv, in books, dollies sold with bottles etc - this is NOT normal or natural at all. As long as this carries on as being seen as a proper way to feed a baby the more enraged people like myself will become.

I cannot see at which point that it's assumed to be even allowed to be a choice. Yes, there are 2% of mothers who cannot breastfeed, there are babies who cannot latch on due to various reasons and for this - we have formula. A last resort. It should only ever be used as a last resort for genuine problems and having sore nipples is NOT a valid option.

Basically the only reasons I can see for NOT breastfeeding are - what I listed above, a drug addiction (why would you even be having a baby at that point?), severe illness or trauma.

Until the media stop shoving FF in our collective faces this idiocy will continue. In my opinion FF should be prescription only, breastfeeding should be continually and publicly promoted until the most natural thing in the world is seen as normal.

Infant feeding is not a matter of lifestyle or simple personal parental choice, it is a matter of public health. Vast amounts of public money is wasted every year treating unneccessary illnesses (£35 million a year on treating FF babies for gastroenteritis) just because people think formula is an acceptable thing to feed to babies. Antibiotics for ear infections, urine infections, chest infections, laxtives for constipation, antiemetics and feed thickeners for reflux, grommets, braces for buck-teeth, emollient and steriod creams for excema, inhalers for asthma, insulin for type 2 diabetes, just a few things that are paid for by the NHS to treat conditions that are triggered and worsened by formula feeding.

You may, as a parent, still have the right to choose what you feed your baby, but what about your baby's right to be fed the right way?

oh right so its all FF babies that do that where is your proof of this then.

i have a lad now 21 and breastfed him he has excema and had colic and had gastroenteritis so where does that leave your theory. and no i didnt wean at the 3 month mark either. for some reason i waited till they were 5/6 months old. in fact all the kids had gastroenteritis at some point in there lives before the weaning stage

youngest lad now 10 was breastfed for 2 years and you know what i was told about his teeth i caused it with my breastfeeding go figure that one out as they are really stained and yellow.

he also has asthma so again where does that leave your theory.

also Oranjeboom why FM on prescription only?

If it's on prescription only then it stops people being so effing lazy.
To my mind it's more hard work to make up feeds etc but the point is (again) BREAST IS BEST so why bother to do anything other than give your baby its very rightful best?
What is the flawed logic of deciding to formula feed?

dollypeeps - you poor thing, how unlucky you've been! Thank goodness you did bf - how much worse these conditions could have been if your kids hadn't had the benefits of breast milk!

My bf son has exzema too - only mildly, but I wasn't surprised, as it runs in my family. I don't know if gastroenteritis has a genetic link, but if all your kids had it, that seems probable.

BF doesn't offer a cast-iron guarantee that your kids won't get ill/allergies etc, and FF doesn't automatically make them ill. It's a matter of likelihood, over the entire population - fewer bf kids suffer from these problems than ff kids, and those that do are likely to have less severe cases.

Continuum Momma - you've quoted the stat £35 million on FF babies for gastroenteritis. How much is spent on BF babies with the same problem? If you have access to such stats - I think a percentage would be more meaningful.

but not ALL mothers are lazy in respect to breastfeeding. my friend wasn't i wasn't but my friend ended up bottle feeding as i did, with two of them. just cos someone decides to bottle feed doesn't make them lazy, maybe misguide but not lazy.

and sorry the excema doesn't run in the family don't know of the other that it could be genetic never heard of that one before and i wont know as i wont be having anymore i think 5 is enough thank you.

quote:

Originally posted by dollypeeps:
i have a lad now 21 and breastfed him he has excema and had colic and had gastroenteritis so where does that leave your theory. and no i didnt wean at the 3 month mark either. for some reason i waited till they were 5/6 months old. in fact all the kids had gastroenteritis at some point in there lives before the weaning stage

youngest lad now 10 was breastfed for 2 years and you know what i was told about his teeth i caused it with my breastfeeding go figure that one out as they are really stained and yellow.

he also has asthma so again where does that leave your theory.

No one has ever said that breastfeeding is a "silver bullt" that stops your baby ever getting ill. All babies get sick, but if they are breastfed they tend to get sick less often and less severely. The reason that the NHS release figures relating to how much it costs to treat ff babies for gastroenteritis and not for bf babies is because bf babies virtually never get gastroenteritis and if they do it doesn't become sever enough to require hospitalisation. A bf baby nurses for comfort and in doing so will be getting a shot of antibodies direct to the source of the infection (the gut) and also is getting nutrition and fluids, where as a ff baby will often go off it's bottles and this leads to furter dehyration and it is this which generally leads to hospital admission and IV fluids etc.

Breastfed babies are exposed to all kinds of potential allergens, mainly cows milk protien, my youngest is allergic to cows milk and as such I am on a dairy free diet, if I eat any dairy she gets excema and a bad stomach. By breastfeeding her I am able to give her nutritionally complete hypoallergenic palatable milk, if she was ff she would be drinking some nutritionally incomplete immune-deficient vile tasting soya concoction.

Many dentists are ignorant of the issues surrounding tooth decay and breastmilk. WHilst there is a large amount of sugar in breastmilk there are also lots of antibacterial agents which fight the bacteria in the mouth and help guard against tooth decay. In a lot of cases yellow staining can come from excessive flouride from water supplies and toothpaste. Ther is absolutely no evidence to say that breastfeeding is harmful to teeth. As Maureen Minchin says, it is not logical for nature/evolution to design a feeding system that destroys our teeth.

Asthma can be triggered by a variety of things, and can appear out of the blue, it is linked to excema and hay fever, so if any of htese are lurking in your family history they could be the source, and cows milk protien in your breastmilk can trigger it unless you are on a dairy free diet. As Susannah Oliver says, "Most people do not realise that dairy products where only introduced into the human diet around 10,000 years ago - the blink of an eye in evolutionary terms - suggesting that we may not be properly adapted for this food."

It is not cut and dried, and there are no absolutes, but the truth is that formula has many failings and is not something we should glibly feed our babies on, but something we should fall back on when there is absolutey no alternative.

quote:

Originally posted by Nickycky:
Jet, thanks for the info about microwaves. I shall look into that - if the link is PROVEN, and not only from leaky microwaves, I shall start warning people, and get rid of my microwave.

No, I won't be giving my child sweeteners or MSG laced foods if I can avoid it. I use my mobile rarely - although it's the masts that are the problem, no the phones themselves. Another thing that should be looked at.

Technically, the paper got it wrong - it isn't being on the pill that gives you an STD - it's not using a condom when sleeping with someone with an STD. This is actually quite a good simile. It's not using formula that's the problem so much as failure to use breastmilk.

Obesity - more likely for ff than bf babies.

All good points - we do all want to do our best for our kids, we all make mistakes. When we KNOW we are making a mistakes, we should do something about it.

well, seeing as you are holier than thou, let me give you my full story, i had 9 months of SEVERE sickness, i was in and out of hospital on drips, i dropped 3 stone during pregnancy and my baby got all my stored nutrients and vitamins in my body and i was left with nothing after she was born and was practically a walking skeleton with no good inside me whatso ever that i felt on the brink of death. i shouldn't have to explain myself to you or anyone else, now you tell me i didn' do my best for my baby the 9 months i was carrying her for. i'm so sorry that my pregnancy experience was so crap and left me with nothing to feed a baby with!

and of course i expected that answer from you, of course you don't give your child anything with sweeteners or MSGs, yes, you are the kind of person that studies EVERYTHING you give your child

quote:

Originally posted by jet the jinx:

quote:

Originally posted by moogyboobles:
I think now I am aware of the risks (my first son sadly, due to the fact my GP and myself were uneducated about breastfeeding, was weaned at only 5 months) I would probably have to be dead to not breastfeed. Even then I know my husband would make the effort to get some donated breastmilk. Formula for me is a very last resort, never an option.
Very rare it is for a woman to physically be unable to breastfeed, usually it's down to the mother believing myths, poor support or following a schedule. So usually let down by the health profession.

i didn't because it was my choice so none of your theories applies to me

Now I'm confused. WERE you horribly ill, or was it a choice you made? Perhaps we are talking about 2 different pregnancies? These are totally different situations. I have said, time and time again, that ff is there for women who NEED it to feed their babies, and that's great. If that was your situation, I apologise for any insinuation I have made that you let your child down by ff. Clearly ff is better than starvation!

I have never said that you didn't do your best for the baby while you were carrying her and have NO idea where you get this from. Maybe if you, like me, only quoted the relevant part of the post, I would know what you are refering to.

My only problem with you is that you say you do not believe that breast is best. I would similarly argue with someone who did not believe that drinking to excess damages the liver, or smoking can cause cancer. Not because their opinion is different from mine, but because these are scientifically proved facts, and ignoring them can be detrimental to health. I don't, however, get upset with people of different religion to me, for instance. THAT is a matter of opinion.

I did come across as a bit holier than thou, sorry about that, but my point was, when we are aware of risks, we should take steps to minimise them. What was YOUR point? That there are all these other risk factors, so one more doesn't matter?

Hi Jet, I sympathise with you.
Unless women who FF give their whole birth experience and every detail of the days/weeks following birth nobody will ever understand the reason for FF.
Unfortunatly, some people, not all, think that mothers turn to FF because BF seemed to much of a challenge, I know there are many people on here and many I know personally, are very understanding about FF, but there is always the few who will just not beleive you.
Personally I could write an essay about the problems I tried to overcome and I don't like to talk about it because I feel it puts new parents off BF when I want to encourage it. I just wish the people who judge us would be quicker to get our facts and personal history, than they are to judge.