Originally posted by moogyboobles: I think now I am aware of the risks (my first son sadly, due to the fact my GP and myself were uneducated about breastfeeding, was weaned at only 5 months) I would probably have to be dead to not breastfeed. Even then I know my husband would make the effort to get some donated breastmilk. Formula for me is a very last resort, never an option. Very rare it is for a woman to physically be unable to breastfeed, usually it's down to the mother believing myths, poor support or following a schedule. So usually let down by the health profession.
i didn't because it was my choice so none of your theories applies to me
Now I'm confused. WERE you horribly ill, or was it a choice you made? Perhaps we are talking about 2 different pregnancies? These are totally different situations. I have said, time and time again, that ff is there for women who NEED it to feed their babies, and that's great. If that was your situation, I apologise for any insinuation I have made that you let your child down by ff. Clearly ff is better than starvation!
I have never said that you didn't do your best for the baby while you were carrying her and have NO idea where you get this from. Maybe if you, like me, only quoted the relevant part of the post, I would know what you are refering to.
My only problem with you is that you say you do not believe that breast is best. I would similarly argue with someone who did not believe that drinking to excess damages the liver, or smoking can cause cancer. Not because their opinion is different from mine, but because these are scientifically proved facts, and ignoring them can be detrimental to health. I don't, however, get upset with people of different religion to me, for instance. THAT is a matter of opinion.
I did come across as a bit holier than thou, sorry about that, but my point was, when we are aware of risks, we should take steps to minimise them. What was YOUR point? That there are all these other risk factors, so one more doesn't matter?
it was my first pregnancy that was bad, second was only the first 6 months, but it was that one that i chose to FF, maybe because i had to with the first, and it suited me. i have read things about FM being just as good as breast milk, or at least just as good as a substitute. There was none of this 'it makes babies ill' or low immunity when i FF and my kids are really healthy, maybe it is a slight bit of ignorance on my part, i just get het up when people tell me i let my kids down when they don't know the full story and i bite.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ He who laughs last didn't get the joke.
Eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow they may make it illegal.
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.
Originally posted by Lou A: Hi all - I read this thread with great interest and have added my own thoughts to the pile!
I don't think any bf mother goes out to MAKE ff mothers feel guilty - no-one can make you feel anything - it is whether you allow yourself to feel that way. In the same way, people will treat you how YOU ALLOW them to treat you (the capitals don;t mean to be agreesive - just emphasis!).
I think if you see something that works do well for you or your baby then it is passion that wants you to give those benefits to someone else. I believe it is an inate need, at some level, in all mums to need to bf - we may not recognise it consciously and so it triggers something in you when you can't do it or choose not to. FF mums always seem very defensive to me, and then tend to see BF mothers as agressive or pushing it down your throat. I am passionate about BF but like many others feel we need more education about it. I have learnt more in the last 8 months doing it and reading about it than I knew before hand. But I wanted to do it so badly I searched out the answers. I think because there is an alternative option so easily available it is easy to quit - there is little support after you come out of hospital unless you really seek it out.
A couple of other points - as well - microwaves are awful things - type in dangers of microwave cooking into your broswer and see what comes up. There are studies to show that people have had microwave radiation in their blood after eating the food. I chucked mine a long time ago - for warming up little portions of baby food I put it in a ceramic ramekin in the top of a steamer - this does the job and keeps it very moist.
Aspartame/Saccharin - also deadly as Jet said - look up those dangers on the net as well. Infacol contains saccharin.... hmmmm.
Childhood illnesses - this is controversial so Iwill keep it short and sweet. I believe that vaccinations are down to a lot of them - the diptheria vaccine has been shown to contribute towards Asthma although you wil have to seek out this info too as your doctor wouldn;t say so. Look at WDDTY website for more info on this. Once again type in vaccination dangers and see what comes up.
Lucnh is up - thanks for reading. x
very good post! i don't have a go at women that breast feed, but i do get defensive when i'm told i didn't do the best for my children, even tho with the first, i had no options!
and i'm glad someone else has picked up on the microwave thing!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ He who laughs last didn't get the joke.
Eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow they may make it illegal.
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.
THank you Jet - I can understand that. I think it is a mothering thing to all want to do the best for our children - whatever way that may be. I know as a BF mum I have never set out to make ff mums feel bad - it is not some sort of superiority thing - I do think there are benefits that can;t be replicated though.
It is clearly a debate that will go on and on. It does one's baby no good if you feel rubbish all the time so at the end of the day as long as you are happy with what you are doing then that is the main thing.
It sounds as though you have had a rough time and I feel for you for that.
In that case Jet, I apologise whole heartedly. As you say, I didn't know the whole story and got the wrong end of the stick. I also assumed your kids were fairly young and you'd had access to the current info on bf. My fault there, for sure.
Originally posted by dollypeeps:also a question why after stopping breastfeeding my youngest now 10 over 7 years ago i still get the let down reflex feeling when i hear a new born baby cry. and will it ever go away.
My mum says she gets it now and then, at times of intense emotion. I will be 39 in a few weeks......... LOL!!!!
Originally posted by Nickycky: In that case Jet, I apologise whole heartedly. As you say, I didn't know the whole story and got the wrong end of the stick. I also assumed your kids were fairly young and you'd had access to the current info on bf. My fault there, for sure.
Peace?
no problem, i really don't like falling out with people on here and as i said, i was to blame too, so no hard feelings.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ He who laughs last didn't get the joke.
Eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow they may make it illegal.
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.
Originally posted by Lou A: Officer Crabtree - the let down reflex - yes I suppose it is a bit funny but not nearly as funny as men's genitals - now they are hilarious.
Perhaps you just need to meet someone who is 'full size'!
Originally posted by jet the jinx: i didn't because it was my choice so none of your theories applies to me
[QUOTE]it's still the individuals choice and i haven't killed my children, so what's your point?[QUOTE] [QUOTE]... and as i've had no down sides from FF then i still don't believe breast is best and noone on earth could ever sway me otherwise. i was FF too, did me no harm whatsoever.[QUOTE]
jet the jinx The quotes above are from your previous threads on this topic. I hope you can understand why I reacted strongly against these points, and felt inclined to ask the question below:
[QUOTE]How many mums out there would leave hospital with their newborn baby and let them ride in a car without a safe baby seat? ... and yet how likely is it that they will crash & their baby will sustain severe injury's as a result of this one journey? ... highly unlikely, but it's just not worth the risk!! Jet the Jinx - I'd be interested to know if you'd take this risk??[QUOTE]
In the light of your later threads explaining your circumstances, I don't think any one of us would have, (or should have), bf in this situation. Respect to you also for pointing out that you believed ff was "at least just as good as a substitute (for bf)" when you could easily have been defensive and dug-your-heels-in.
It's a relief to see that we all seem to be reaching a better understanding. Its also clear that we're all trying to do the best for our babies/kids, and our only choice is to base the decisions we make on the information available to us at the time. THIS is the huge problem with bf - mums should not be feeling guilty for not bf - they should be getting angry that the right info, (re:bf v ff), info is NOT available to us when we really need it. Lets face it, it's difficult enough to get out the door b4 3pm in the first few weeks, never mind having time to really seek out info on bf. Health Professionals should be giving us all the info we need during pregnancy, and setting us up with a 'bf buddy' who can provide the intensive early days support that is crucial to succeed.
I was really lucky on three counts: my mum bf all four of us, (when nearly every other mum in her day ff), my best friend bf her three babies, and I saw mums at my local bf support group overcoming their problems and succeeding - even when things got really tough in the early days, these supports gave me the self belief and determination to carry on.
Although we might not agree all the time on this forum, we are all learning from each other all the time, and that's what counts more than anything!!
You have some good points there johnny and bump, I had to start ff my son because of his health problems (very poor weight gain for one) and I was determined I wanted to bf my daughter succesfully. I had a friend who BF her daughter the same time as had my son, she lived only a 2 sec walk across the road, but she moved a month before my daughter was born. My parents live in wales, and my mother in law was not into BF at all. My sis in law has 2 boys, and I was told in a round about way, she didn't want me inflicting BF on her sons!!! So the support I had around me was practically Zero. I was very emotional because of my first experiences with BF, and when the time came to it I was not as relaxed as I should have been. I went in to hospital at 11 am, I had her at 2pm 3 hours later, and was at home by 6.30 that evening! I was throwing up from the shock of how quick it had all been, and then the panic set in. I look back and I wish I had someone who would have been there for me, to keep me calm and relxed, then I know things would have all come together for me. With the right support from proffesionals and family, BF would have been so much easier. I was then told my bu HV, that I probably did the right thing, because of the problems I had before with my body, and milk flow, she may have ended up just as poorly as my son!! That seemed crazy, buy I beleived her at the time.
Is is possible for a mother to have little or no milk??
I think she was just trying to make me feel good about myself at the time. But it did the opposite and made me feel my body had let me down.
I really don't think there should be pressure on women to breastfeed. Yes, breastfeeding certainly has benefits most of the time. But there ARE instances where breastfeeding is extremeley painful, or the mother just isn't producing enough milk.
In terms of the latter often the only option is to switch to formula feeding; and in terms of the former some may argue that you should 'fight through the pain', I'm sure. However, not all mums would feel able to do this; some mums, particularly first-time mums, may feel stressed or depressed already; and being made to feel that they should have to put up with pain is not going to do them or their relationship with their baby any good. Far better to switch to formula IMO.
And some mums may just not feel comfortable with the idea. This might be because no-one they know does and they don't have any support, or it might just be a very personal thing. I don't think anyone has the right to criticise someone for choosing what is best for them. Feeling pressured into doing something they don't want is more likely to make it hard for a mum to bond with her baby than anything else; it is unlikely to have massive benefits
Breastfeeding does have lots of pluses if everything goes smoothly, plenty of support is given, and the mother feels comfortable. However even then breastfeeding doesn't automatically mean a healthy child later in life. I was breastfed for quite a while but I'm always getting coughs, colds and illnesses and I'm allergic to everything under the sun. My boyfriend was formula fed and never gets ill
Hopefully when I have children breasfeeding will work out, as I've always wanted my children to have breastmilk rather than formula. But if it doesn't I'm not going to beat myself up about it. If its very painful and it's ending up upsetting me I'm going to stop; if my baby isn't getting enough milk I'll stop. Because a happy healthy mum tends to make for a happier baby than one who's stressed and upset all the time
Everyone is an individual and people should respect that; what's worked out wonderfull for one person may not be so great for another. As long as people have at least thought about breastfeeding that's good enough for me; and whatever reason they might have decided against it for, I'm not going to criticise
As a reply to Orangebooms view that all babies should have access to breastmilk, yes in an ideal world that would be the case. But this is not an ideal world, and would not be practical to keep getting breast milk from a bank on a regular basis for the next 2 years of a child's life.
Formula is there for women who cannot and are not able to bf or if the baby's natural mother is no longer around. It is a lifesaver for me, i don't know how my baby could live without it as my milk dried up pretty early so not able to continue to bf. Yes breast is best and there is no two ways about it, ff is just an alternative when you are not able to.
I cannot stand people with a holier than thou attitude, just because they; bf, wash their nappies, wear their children etc, that we are somehow substandard parents because we do not do those things? Fair enough they believe in the AP(attatchement parenting) style, but do not impose it on us, or make us feel bad because we do not AP.
Originally posted by pigletmania: I cannot stand people with a holier than thou attitude, just because they; bf, wash their nappies, wear their children etc, that we are somehow substandard parents because we do not do those things? Fair enough they believe in the AP(attatchement parenting) style, but do not impose it on us, or make us feel bad because we do not AP.
they are the mothering taliban, their world is black and white. it's their way or no way. how on earth has the human race survived for the last 10,000 years without their expertise eh?
i BF'd and co-slept, and carried my baby in a sling but don't live in the taliban's ideal world and i'm aware women aren't robots and you need to do what keeps you sane sometimes.
**************************** Beware of the Loons!!! FAF #40
No I did not mean you Electric Leopard, I meant C Momma, who has posted some views on this forum that have been quite holier than thou. We are not perfect, if we were we would not be here. We do our best, and hope that it is enough for our children. Each child and mother are different, what works for some might not work for others.
I have repeatedly said that formula milk is available for a reason. I am fully aware that there are people who cannot breastfeed for numerous reasons and of course there should be formula milk available to these families.
I just do not like the idea that it's freely available and that it's seen to be a valid choice. This is my opinion and I won't be swayed on that. That is not a 'Taliban' attitude in the slightest.
I can't see a problem with formula being freely available: it offers choice. There are many women who are physically able to breastfeed but simply don't want to, and it is important that they have this choice.
I also firmly believe the formula IS a valid choice. Yes, breast milk undoubtedly has numerous benefits: but it ceases to be beneficial when a mother feels bullied into breastfeeding. And despite the boost it gives to the immune system there is nothing to say a breastfed baby is going to be any healthier than a formula fed baby later in life.
The biggest impacts on health are environment and lifestyle as opposed to whether someone has been breastfed or not
Originally posted by barbie86: I can't see a problem with formula being freely available: it offers choice. There are many women who are physically able to breastfeed but simply don't want to, and it is important that they have this choice.
Then they shouldn't be having children. If you're not in the slightest prepared to give your child the very best for their health then you've no business breeding in the first place.
When I say 'don't want to' I include in that all kinds of emotional reasons. I believe that women should consider breastfeeding and weigh up the pros and cons for them. If a major con is that they don't feel at all comfortable doing it, then they shouldn't feel pressured into it. Just because one woman is happy doing it and finds it the best thing ever does not mean the next one will, far from it.
Breast is only best if the mother wants to breast feed: otherwise it is likely to be damaging
I think it's actually pretty insulting and self-righteous to say that a woman who doesn't want to breastfeed is a bad mother who doesn't want the best for her baby, and that she shouldn't be having children. You can do far, far worse than not breastfeed your children.
Believe it or not, formula feeding tends not to be that damaging later in life: formula fed babies often end up being happy and healthy adults you know...
and as i said, i was to blame too, so no hard feelings.
