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*sigh*
Still not getting through am I?
Yes there are women who cannot breastfeed for some reasons. Yes, these women should formula feed their babies. Yes, that is a perfectly valid reason to formula feed as they cannot breastfeed.
My point (AGAIN), a valid one I feel, is that - you should be prepared to at least TRY. If you're just, "Oh I want a baby and I'll put it on a bottle cos I think breastfeeding is icky" THAT is what bothers me and THAT is why I get ranty and keep re-iterating my view. That is why I believe that formula shouldn't be an immediate option unless there's damned good reason.
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Well I believe that how I choose to feed MY baby, for whatever reason is "damned good reason enough"
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I agree with you there, I have said on here before I thin it should only be available for medical reasons, But I would never deny parents the right to choose to FF.
And I certainly would never say they do not deserve to have children.
I do feel everyone should give it a go, but it's not up to me to shove my views down their throat either.
I do feel quite saddeded by the fact that you feel I do not deserve to have my daughter, just because of how I feed her.
I am not missing the point at all, I think you are 'on the ball' with your views.
But I don't like your negative attitude at all.
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Why should someone who finds the mere thought of breastfeeding very uncomfortable have to try? Lots of women just really really don't like the idea: they don't just 'find it a bit icky' it's something that they really can't bring themselves to do. I don't think you need to have tried breastfeeding for this to be a valid reason. If they are totally against the idea to begin with, trying it is highly unlikely to change their minds, and more likely to make them feel even worse about the situation. There is unnecessary pressure at the moment for women to conform to unrealistic ideals and its not doing anyone any good
I hope to God no-one tries to push their views on me when I have children because quite frankly I'll put them right in their place. No-one is a perfect parent, as long as you try to do what you feel is right for you and your child then that's the best you can do
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barbie86.... I salute you, you have the best way to approach the whole subject.
YOU do what YOU feel is best.
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quote: Originally posted by Hysteria1983:
I do feel quite saddeded by the fact that you feel I do not deserve to have my daughter, just because of how I feed her.
That is not what I meant and I do not think that at all. I'm more saddened by the entire lack of support and care and education for mothers in this country that they're lead to believe that they can't breastfeed and then the attitudes that stem from it. I unreservedly apologise if people think I'm insinuating that they shouldn't have children, I'm appalled that this country, this society in general has sunk to such a level that we think it's normal to choose formula as a good idea when it's blatantly not the best idea. Feed your babies how the hell you* want but don't even try to defend formula as a better option when you know that it isn't. *I use YOU as a collective term not a personal term to anyone. |
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oranjeboom: I don't think anyone would say that formula is a better option when taken purely at face value: ie. its nutritious value and health benefits weighed directly against that of breast milk.
The point is that formula is often the best option for other reasons: if the mother feels totally uncomfortable with the idea of breastfeeding for example, or if breastfeeding becomes painful. Also as a few people have said, breastfeeding doesn't always provide the baby with enough nutrients: if for example the mum isn't producing enough milk
In an ideal world breast is best, but it isn't an ideal world and there are lots of factors that can make formula a better option than breastmilk
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I'm more saddened by the entire lack of support and care and education for mothers in this country that they're lead to believe that they can't breastfeed and then the attitudes that stem from it.
I am educated like many people, and know all the benifits.... I have seen all the benifits, both my close friends BF and it is wonderful. But mothers don't just FF because they are uneducated, like barbie 86 said, some women choose not to do it, just because it is not right for them, if they wanted to, many women may not have any setbacks at all. My close friend is a perfect example, she was not bothered how her son was fed, as long as he was fed, so she gave BF a go, and she was wonderful at it. (she is so great!) But she could have just as easily have chosen not to, eben having had all the support and education she needed.
I don't think anyone thinks it is 'the norm' to FF, I can actually say, I feel in the minority of mothers who FF in my close circle at the moment. Yet almost two years ago with my son I was in the majority of FF mothers.
This show's how BF is thriving in such a wonderful way.
I don't think that we are saying FF is a better option, nutritionally, BF is THE BEST! But there are emotional, and physical reasons why mothers choose FF as their personal way wich is best for THEIR child.
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quote: Originally posted by barbie86:
I can't see a problem with formula being freely available: it offers choice. There are many women who are physically able to breastfeed but simply don't want to, and it is important that they have this choice.
I also firmly believe the formula IS a valid choice. Yes, breast milk undoubtedly has numerous benefits: but it ceases to be beneficial when a mother feels bullied into breastfeeding. And despite the boost it gives to the immune system there is nothing to say a breastfed baby is going to be any healthier than a formula fed baby later in life.
The biggest impacts on health are environment and lifestyle as opposed to whether someone has been breastfed or not
Before you post any more on this subject, and before you have children you need to read "breastfeeding Matters" by Maureen Minchin. Formula is not a valid choice, it is a last resort, it is in no way a like for like substitute for breastfeeding and lacks far more than a few antibodies. Breast is not best, it does not boost the immune system or raise IQ. It is the food that babies are biologically designed to be raised on, it provides them with everything they need for optimal growth and development. *sigh*
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Nestle boycotting,nappy washing, co-sleeping, baby wearing, home birthing, tandem nursing Momma
Routines are for dancers, shedules are for trains
Attachment Parenting; the radical notion that babies and children are people too!!
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Hello Continuum Momma, I am glad you are here as I think we are all straying away from the issues, I just wish people would be a little more open minded.
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In referance to my earlier post..... is it possible for a woman to not produce enough mlik?
I posred the question earlier if you need to see the whole thread just look bacj to the bottom of page 5, I just wanted to see if anyone could give me any answers.
Thank you.
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Please don't patronise me CM. I think you'll find I've stated quite clearly that in terms of health benefits and nutritional value breast is best; no-one is arguing against that
What I am saying is that there are many reasons where breast is NOT best: not for nutritional reasons (although in terms of women whose milk dries up I would say formula milk is better than little or no milk), but for psycological and personal reasons. If breastfeeding is painful for the mother and she wishes to stop, continuing is not going to do her relationship with her baby any good. Particularly in the case of first time mums who are likely to feel overwhelmed and stressed as it is
Also before you start telling me what to read before I have children please note that I've stated numerous times that I will definitely be giving breastfeeding a good shot and that I really hope it works out
Just because I can see both sides and can understand why some women may not wish to breastfeed, and why formula feeding may be the best option for some women in some cases does not mean that I myself am going to automatically choose formula
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quote: Originally posted by oranjeboom:
*sigh*
Still not getting through am I?
Yes there are women who cannot breastfeed for some reasons. Yes, these women should formula feed their babies. Yes, that is a perfectly valid reason to formula feed as they cannot breastfeed.
My point (AGAIN), a valid one I feel, is that - you should be prepared to at least TRY. If you're just, "Oh I want a baby and I'll put it on a bottle cos I think breastfeeding is icky" THAT is what bothers me and THAT is why I get ranty and keep re-iterating my view. That is why I believe that formula shouldn't be an immediate option unless there's damned good reason.
why are so many missing orangebooms point?? As far as I can see, the following reasons cover why mums don't bf: 1) Mum is biologically unable to bf, (ie cannot produce enough milk) 2) Her baby is not thriving on bf, despite health professionals providing all the intensive bf support that mum needs 3) Mum is physically/emotionally unable to cope with bf due to traumatic experiences that coincide with the birth of her child. 4) Mum tries to bf because she knows it is the best for her baby, but does not get the intensive support she needs to continue for long. 5) Mum does not consider bf at all and 'chooses' to ff from the outset: she believes that ff is nearly as good as bf for her baby. 6) Mum does not consider bf at all and chooses to ff from the outset: she can't be ar*ed bf and has no interest in the benefits her baby would receive. Surely points 1-3 are the only decent reasons for 'choosing' to ff rather than bf - but then, I would argue that these are situations where the mum has no real 'choice' at all!! Does it not follow that Every mum who really understands why bf beats the cr*p out of ff, and truly wants the best start in life for her precious baby, would want to at least try to bf? I think the problem is that a lot of mums, through no fault of their own, do not really understand just how much better bf is! |
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That is right Jonny and bump. I feel that mums should give bf a good go, formula is only there as a back up, it is not superior to breast milk at all. If it wasn't my child would die, i will not bore you all as you have probaby read my threads on bf forums. In my case the first 2 of your reasons applied. Woman are given breasts to feed children, not men's sexual desires. At least give it a go!
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I think at the moment the system is failing us. If ONE person was in charge of a womans ante natal care and the whole birth and days following, then I think results would be better, but when a womanm see's several different people, sometimes ony for the birth, then several different people after.... There is not one person who will get the result saying.... 'I looked after that one person and look how they are both thriving' Not many staff get to see an end result with there care, and in my experience, none of the midwives especially, have been interested in helping, or caring for me, or my babies.
In an ideal world, we would all have ONE midwife, for the birth, and home visits, I think this would help alot. But our world is VERY VERY far from ideal.
U do agree whole heartedly that is is best for a woman to give a baby Breast Milk, but it will still remain a fact that mothers will choose to FF.
I don't think it is from being un educated, or lack of support or poor advice.
I will tell you one reason some people I know from work have not BF, and I found it disgusting.
In two cases, yes TWO, the male partner has actually said they don't want Mum BF, because their breasts were not for a baby and that they were for sex.
I, personally find this hard to get my head around that there are actually men out there who feel like this!! My partner was very supportive, and all for BF. So I was so shocked that males can be so narrow minded.
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I feel I should say... not all men are like this, just a select few, I am very sure of that. There are lots of wonderful men out there. Some of which i'm sure would love to nurse if they could.  |
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quote: Originally posted by johnny&bump:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jet the jinx:
i didn't because it was my choice so none of your theories applies to me
quote: it's still the individuals choice and i haven't killed my children, so what's your point?[QUOTE]
[QUOTE]... and as i've had no down sides from FF then i still don't believe breast is best and noone on earth could ever sway me otherwise. i was FF too, did me no harm whatsoever.[QUOTE]
jet the jinx The quotes above are from your previous threads on this topic. I hope you can understand why I reacted strongly against these points, and felt inclined to ask the question below:
[QUOTE]How many mums out there would leave hospital with their newborn baby and let them ride in a car without a safe baby seat? ... and yet how likely is it that they will crash & their baby will sustain severe injury's as a result of this one journey? ... highly unlikely, but it's just not worth the risk!!
Jet the Jinx - I'd be interested to know if you'd take this risk??[QUOTE]
In the light of your later threads explaining your circumstances, I don't think any one of us
would have, (or should have), bf in this situation. Respect to you also for pointing out that you believed ff was "at least just as good as a substitute (for bf)" when you could easily have been defensive and dug-your-heels-in.
It's a relief to see that we all seem to be reaching a better understanding. Its also clear that we're all trying to do the best for our babies/kids, and our only choice is to base the decisions we make on the information available to us at the time. THIS is the huge problem with bf - mums should not be feeling guilty for not bf - they should be getting angry that the right info, (re:bf v ff), info is NOT available to us when we really need it. Lets face it, it's difficult enough to get out the door b4 3pm in the first few weeks, never mind having time to really seek out info on bf. Health Professionals should be giving us all the info we need during pregnancy, and setting us up with a 'bf buddy' who can provide the intensive early days support that is crucial to succeed.
I was really lucky on three counts: my mum bf all four of us, (when nearly every other mum in her day ff), my best friend bf her three babies, and I saw mums at my local bf support group overcoming their problems and succeeding - even when things got really tough in the early days, these supports gave me the self belief and determination to carry on.
Although we might not agree all the time on this forum, we are all learning from each other all the time, and that's what counts more than anything!!
i know, i get very defensive when people tell me i did wrong in the way i fed my baby, i'm a very stubborn person! and often dig my heels in when attacked, it just pisses me off when people attack me when i haven't said the whole story, and i really hate assumptions lol. i never attacked anyone on here for breast feeding before they attacked me! anyway, now my life story is all over the board, i shall refrain from saying what i did/went through and just comment on everyone else 
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He who laughs last didn't get the joke.
Eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow they may make it illegal.
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.
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Thank you jet the jinx.
My son is a healthy boy, a little underweight, but he has had problems, and now overcome them.
He enjoys a healthy diet, often I think he might turn into a grape one day because of the amount he eats. I am proud I did everything I could for him, but sometimes, things are unavoidable.
I have ben getting myself down lately, as much as I enjoy posting on here, this is the only real chance I get to talk (type) to other mothers. But sometimes I will get envolved in a thread and it goes totally wrong.
I still think I could have done more for my son, if I had been given the chance. I just didn't want to risk his health any further.
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quote: Originally posted by pigletmania:
No I did not mean you Electric Leopard, I meant C Momma, who has posted some views on this forum that have been quite holier than thou. We are not perfect, if we were we would not be here. We do our best, and hope that it is enough for our children. Each child and mother are different, what works for some might not work for others.
lol i wasn't taking offense at your post, i was agreeing with you. and yes, karen the phrase "no business breeding" isn't only derogatory and offensive, it's downright dangerous. **************************** Beware of the Loons!!!FAF #40  |
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quote:
In two cases, yes TWO, the male partner has actually said they don't want Mum BF, because their breasts were not for a baby and that they were for sex.....I, personally find this hard to get my head around that there are actually men out there who feel like this!! ..... I was so shocked that males can be so narrow minded.
I am even more surprised that these mums accepted their partners view!! |
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oh sorry Electric Leopard, i guess i read it in a bit of a rush as i had just come home from work.
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Tell me about in johnny & bump
I think I would have told my partner where to go, but he wouldn't dream of saying it. He knows as much about BF as anyone.
But I think that the one girl is seriously not even gong to consider BF because of her husband.
There is nothing I can do now, as she has left work on maternity leave, and I don't have contact anymore.
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quote: Originally posted by barbie86:
Please don't patronise me CM. I think you'll find I've stated quite clearly that in terms of health benefits and nutritional value breast is best; no-one is arguing against that
What I am saying is that there are many reasons where breast is NOT best: not for nutritional reasons (although in terms of women whose milk dries up I would say formula milk is better than little or no milk), but for psycological and personal reasons. If breastfeeding is painful for the mother..........
..........she needs help with positioning and attachment, as these are the causes of painful breastfeeding. A bottle of formula is not the solution. Hysteria; Yes, some women are unable to produce enough milk, roughly 2% of women are either on medication that is incompatable with bf or are not able to produce (enough) milk. However, the majority | |
