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Whether or not it was edited in an odd way it still put across that this is an option to consider as a parenting style. When it certainly most isn't worth considering in any shape or way.
I have contacted the company who made the programme and Verity herself asking just what her qualifications are. Obviously I get no reply and Channel 4 don't even read the complaint, must just see the words "bringing up baby" and send out the standard fob off. I am unaware of any organisations involved in childcare who teach neglect so I would really like to know who taught her her "string of qualifications".
I too feel sorry for the parents, obviously nobody thought to tell them about the consequences.
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I am quoting extracts from a handout I received at a conference 7 days ago: Allen Schore (Aus. NZ Journal of Psychiatry, (2002)
“Psychoneurobiological models of emotional development emphasise the enduring importance of attachment experiences during the critical period of early forming, bodily-based right brain core of the self. In dyadic, visual-facial, gestural and auditory-prosodic communications the psychobiologically attuned caregiver appraises non-verbal expressions of the infant’s affective states and then interactively regulates the infant’s internal states of positive and negative arousal.” Without the caregiver’s interactive involvement the infant cannot regulate its arousal states; this has severe repercussions on brain maturation (which is experience dependent!) as well as the nervous system leading to, amongst other things, dissociation, i.e. stressful feelings are no longer experienced in consciousness.
There is so much more I could add, but it is quite complex material. We would want to assume that Channel 4 had based its content on valid and current research and that it had consulted specialists in the field - if indeed it ever intended to produce a serious and worthwhile programme. Because Channel 4 has deemed its concept appropriate and continues to defend it as such, I now have to believe that this programme must have been made by people who are intentionally ignorant of the subject matter, who did not seek to edify themselves beforehand and whose purpose was not to inform but to entertain through outrage and controversy. You can do this with consenting adults on Big Brother, but not with babies and their misguided parents. This would be so cynical and - added to the other recent news items about television misrepresentations - makes me feel very sad and abused by the media in general. I really can't make any sense of their lack of thoroughness, professionalism and regard for the participants and the viewers.
For me, Channel 4 only has one option and that is to be as transparent as possible in its endeavour to get to grips with the neuroscientific developmental research that is out there and to replace their planned programmes with an enlightened and enlightening portrayal of infant/personality development.
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Thanks for this. More and more evidence is just streaming in!
I also witnessed animals in the local Zoo in Romania rocking in this way. They were neglected, confined and isolated - i thought there was some connection back then. Now i have the evidence!
I agree also that C4 need to acknowledge their mistakes and make urgent reparation by presenting the scientific facts in a non sensational documentary / discussion
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I've just watched this program on 4OD and, like most people here, am utterly appalled.
I brought up my, now, teenagers (13 and 16) in the Continuum Concept manner. I didn't follow it strictly to the letter as I am a Westerner in a Western society and it was simply not possible. However, they both made their own way away from breast, into their own beds and have developed into extremely confident and generally non-annoying children (except one, just now, making a horrible noise with a straw in a can of drink).
This Claire Verity has no clue, being childless is the main part of it. I was in tears watching that poor mother trying to hold back sobs as her tiny daughter howled in her cot. How 'natural' is that to fight your own instincts? It's not, if this mother had any degree of common sense then she'd have listened to herself, not that stupid woman.
I really don't know how anyone could decide to ignore what their brain's telling them in favour of someone who's never had children and is making it so very emotionally painful. People like this have no right to enforce any kind of childcare, I use the word 'childcare' very loosely in her case. It's totally inhumane and I'm shocked that Channel 4 seem to think of it as a great social experiment at the detriment of families and newborn babies.
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Just to continue the zoo story, it is well known that mummy monkeys that have been born in a zoo or spent most of their time in some sort of confinement away from other female monkeys, are unable to breastfeed. Why ? Because they have never seen another female monkey bf and so they can not imitate the act of bf. How true also about humans. You can't bf unless you are able to copy or be shown how to do it.
I read a story about a zoo calling up their local La Leche League, begging the women to come round with their babies and bf in front of a gorilla and her newborn so that she could copy and imitate. It worked !
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Clare Varity says she can get a baby sleeping through the night at 8 weeks through her methods
All 3 of my children were all sleeping 12pm-6pm by and bath-bottle-bed routine. I don't know where this women got her qualifications from but as a Nursery Nurse she goes aganist every thing that has ever been taught about about the welfare of children. How can channel 4 and there advisors advocate such methods. You can't just stick a 3 day old baby outside in the cold in a flimsy blanket and ignore the baby for 3 hours what if she was sick, filled her nappy it was clear her needs were not being met. when do the parents get to bond with their baby. parent hood is not shoving a bottle down the baby neck and shoving her in her cot no cuddles no contact has this women not read child Psychology
books. Channel 4 has gone against every goverment health recomendations its big brother all over again . At the end off the day they are playing with a babys welfare and does not make good TV.
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C4 Commissioner
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I am the Channel 4 commissioning editor responsible for "Bringing up
Baby" and I have read the posts on this and other threads and have also
seen the letters and e-mails sent to Channel 4's Viewer Enquiry unit
about the first programme in our four part series. It has clearly
caused quite a lot of reaction here and on other forums, and you have
raised some very interesting points about the programme and about child
rearing more generally. After reading what you have to say, I want to
answer some of the specific criticisms of Channel 4 as well as explain
why we commissioned the programme in the first place and what sort of
advice we and the parents were given during the making of the series.
I was amazed to discover that there are more books sold every day on
child care than there are babies born. We seem to have a never ending
appetite for advice during this important part of our lives, but it
seems that books can only offer advice - what they can't do is show the
effect of following that advice in real life. Clearly many people are
following the many different theories all over the country, and we
thought that a television programme that followed couples choosing to
follow three of the better known methods would make fascinating viewing,
not least because most of our viewers would have had personal experience
of one of these methods during their own childhood! I hope that those
of you who have voiced criticism of a particular method on this forum
might see the value of showing what it actually involves and allowing
other viewers to judge for themselves. We did not intend to promote any
particular theory, but hoped this would be an interesting way to
stimulate a debate the pros and cons of each method.
Many of you have expressed concern about both the babies and the parents
featured in the programme, and especially those following the Truby King
method with Clare Verity as their mentor. When we selected couples for
the programme, we were very clear that they would be free to decide what
childcare method would work best for them and their lifestyle and the
programme would observe how they reacted to putting the theory into
practise, and what changes they might decide to make as they adapted the
methods to suit them and their babies during the period of filming.
Several people have asked what advice we took during the making of the
programme - we consulted a GP, a neurologist, and a highly qualified
consultant paediatrician, and we showed all four episodes to the
consultant paediatrician before completing them and took his advice on
several important changes to the editing and voice over to make
reference to current medical advice.
Other people have asked about how the various methods compare to current
Department of Health guidelines on childcare and wellbeing. The couples
we filmed received all the usual advice from their GPs, midwives and
healthcare visitors, and were free to adapt the method they chose to
take account of the advice from these sources. You will pleased to hear
that all six families were happy with the experience they went through,
and all of them are sticking with the method they originally chose and
any adaptations they have made along the way.
Some of you have raised issues around the longer term effects associated with the different childcare methods on which this series was based. We sought advice from a very highly qualified paediatrician, who saw the programmes and the routines being followed, and who is familiar with all the research on association between longer term health and well being and childcare methods. His advice was that there was nothing in the programmes that would cause any ill effects to the babies, either short or longer term, and he has also provided more detailed advice for the web site supporting the programme (www.channel4.com/bringingupbaby) and can answer any particular questions you might have in the “ask the expert” section of the site.
I apologise for such a long post, but hope that this has answered some of your questions and reassured those of you who were alarmed or upset by what you saw. I hope you will watch the next episode tonight, and I will be visiting this forum again during the week to join in with the debate.
Hamish
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Would you please contact Sue Gerhardt, author of "Why Love Matters" who is based in the Oxford area and whose details I can find should you need them? She has brought together in this book current views of different disciplines to explain how interactions between babies and their parents have lasting and serioius consequences. These views are underpinned by scientific evidence, such as fMRI scans of the brain. I may not be a highly qualified paediatrician but I am a very well trained therapist and am aware of psychoneurobiological research that exposes Truby King's methods as emotional neglect, and that some researchers view the gravity of this kind of abuse as even more harmful to the infant than sexual abuse as it results in underdevelopment of the right brain hemisphere which is - if at all - not easily repaired. The consequences for personality development and relationship building are dire. I want you to inform yourself about this research and then come back to us.
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quote: Originally posted by pixie wings fairy dust: quote: Originally posted by ThoKo:
I would like to comment on a couple of minnie's points. If she would only have been bothered to read the posts which contain references to state-of-the-art research and knowledge ...
> why disturbe a child who is sleeping just to satisfiy your need of a cuddle
Do you really think that more affectionate parents wake up their children in the middle of the night (perhaps even every hour) to give them a cuddle? I have never met any of those parents.
> in the 1st 3 months of a child life there main priority is to grow and develop
How do you know? Are you an expert in pediatric psychology? That's just a silly statement without any foundation. Again: have you noticed the references to state-of-the-art research in child development?
> mia was well fed and very raily cried for food
She rarely cried for food because she had been strongly conditioned from day one that crying does not help at all.
> vicky and matt had llots of contact with her through feeding changing bath times
To how much time does this amount a day? One hour, two hours?
> and mia is now a very happy baby who is developing at amazing rates
What does it mean to develop "at amazing rates"? All parents will say this of their children. This again is just blabla without any foundation.
> and she still loves noting more than being outside
Well, she hardly knows anything else ...
> as vicky is a very capable childminder all her children have time outside in the fresh air
Is having time outside the only criterion to be met to be a very capable childminder? I, like many others in this forum, wouldn't be very happy to have her as a childminder.
> what would you prefer a childminder who has had no sleep and cant consentrate properly to look after your child or a childminder who has had a full nites sleep and is refreshed and able to care for you child properly
I know straight away that I will always go for the first option if that means that the childminder is an affectionate person who trusts her instincts much more than giving in to such antiquated and dangerous opinions.
> just give the series a chance
Just give the newborn babies a chance to be raised in an affectionate and warm-hearted environment!
P.S. Please feel free to use punctuation and capital letters to make your post more readable!
WELL SAID!!
HERE HERE !!!!!!
HAPPYMUM
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I understand the mother seen allowing her newborn baby to be abused is a childminder. I am absolutely shocked. I think she should have her registration terminated immediately. What kind of person would let a woman like that look after their small children?
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I don't think the Commissioner has said anything useful at all, sorry Ch 4, but you haven't actually answered the concerns of the vast amjority of parents here.
Asking the views of ONE paedatrician or ONE psychologist is NOT scientific. Sorry, but it just isn't, ask any scientist and they will say just that !
If ONE particular paedatrician/psychologist/whoever/ says that there is nothing wrong with letting a newborn cry, not allowed eye contact, minimal physical contact, not allowed to breastfeed, etc. I can find you many others who beg to differ and who can offer solid scientific evidence that this method of child care does and has resulted in damaged children.
I accept that the parents who chose their various methods and chose to come on the programme did so voluntarily. So what ?
I suspect that this post will be deleted, like most of my previous ones !
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Hamish
Thank you for setting out your thinking.
As a parent of a young baby I was interested to watch your programme,as you suggest,to see the various childcare methods in action.Over my 20 years of motherhood I have evolved a method of my own and am not looking for advice but I was interested to see how babies' needs were met in different ways.
It soon became clear that the 1950s method is not actually about the baby but the parents.This cleared up any doubts in my mind that I had taken the wrong course with my own children as I would never dream of treating a child that way.
From that point of view then your programme has had merit,however I would argue that it has failed in it's given objective of discovering which method works best.You state that all the couples were happy with their choice and have continued with it.So no conclusion has been reached.In fact more harm has been caused if viewers decide that the Claire Verity"neglect is best"method is worth a try and give it a go as it appears,on the face of it,to be on an equal footing.
I, like many others on this forum would be far more interested in a serious discussion by health professionals about how best to treat young babies and what evidence there is to support their ideas.I have learned a great deal more from contributors to this forum than from your programme.
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Im surprised you only one paediatrician, GP and neurologist....
ECR
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New Member
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quote: Originally posted by Hamish M:
I am the Channel 4 commissioning editor responsible for "Bringing up
Baby" and I have read the posts on this and other threads and have also
seen the letters and e-mails sent to Channel 4's Viewer Enquiry unit
about the first programme in our four part series. It has clearly
caused quite a lot of reaction here and on other forums, and you have
raised some very interesting points about the programme and about child
rearing more generally. After reading what you have to say, I want to
answer some of the specific criticisms of Channel 4 as well as explain
why we commissioned the programme in the first place and what sort of
advice we and the parents were given during the making of the series.
I was amazed to discover that there are more books sold every day on
child care than there are babies born. We seem to have a never ending
appetite for advice during this important part of our lives, but it
seems that books can only offer advice - what they can't do is show the
effect of following that advice in real life. Clearly many people are
following the many different theories all over the country, and we
thought that a television programme that followed couples choosing to
follow three of the better known methods would make fascinating viewing,
not least because most of our viewers would have had personal experience
of one of these methods during their own childhood! I hope that those
of you who have voiced criticism of a particular method on this forum
might see the value of showing what it actually involves and allowing
other viewers to judge for themselves. We did not intend to promote any
particular theory, but hoped this would be an interesting way to
stimulate a debate the pros and cons of each method.
Many of you have expressed concern about both the babies and the parents
featured in the programme, and especially those following the Truby King
method with Clare Verity as their mentor. When we selected couples for
the programme, we were very clear that they would be free to decide what
childcare method would work best for them and their lifestyle and the
programme would observe how they reacted to putting the theory into
practise, and what changes they might decide to make as they adapted the
methods to suit them and their babies during the period of filming.
Several people have asked what advice we took during the making of the
programme - we consulted a GP, a neurologist, and a highly qualified
consultant paediatrician, and we showed all four episodes to the
consultant paediatrician before completing them and took his advice on
several important changes to the editing and voice over to make
reference to current medical advice.
Other people have asked about how the various methods compare to current
Department of Health guidelines on childcare and wellbeing. The couples
we filmed received all the usual advice from their GPs, midwives and
healthcare visitors, and were free to adapt the method they chose to
take account of the advice from these sources. You will pleased to hear
that all six families were happy with the experience they went through,
and all of them are sticking with the method they originally chose and
any adaptations they have made along the way.
Some of you have raised issues around the longer term effects associated with the different childcare methods on which this series was based. We sought advice from a very highly qualified paediatrician, who saw the programmes and the routines being followed, and who is familiar with all the research on association between longer term health and well being and childcare methods. His advice was that there was nothing in the programmes that would cause any ill effects to the babies, either short or longer term, and he has also provided more detailed advice for the web site supporting the programme (www.channel4.com/bringingupbaby) and can answer any particular questions you might have in the “ask the expert” section of the site.
I apologise for such a long post, but hope that this has answered some of your questions and reassured those of you who were alarmed or upset by what you saw. I hope you will watch the next episode tonight, and I will be visiting this forum again during the week to join in with the debate.
Hamish
First of all Hamish, thank you for trying to answer these posts. However I, and I think many other concerned parents, have very real concerns for the welfare, long term, of the children following Claire Verity 50's style. Whist I understand people taking part in the program had a choice, I am also very aware, as a father of 6 children, how confusing the first few days of parenthood is and that they may, at that time, felt that had follow the regime's offered. My concerns are that some new parents MAY take Claire's advice as the best way, and frankly it is not. I am also concerned, as mentioned on the previous posts, that you have taken the advice from various single sources. Would they be willing to put their name to Verity's methods and say, on the record, they are safe? Do they consider them as safe? Will channel 4 being commisioning a debate on this issue at a later date and would they be wiling to put all the "experts" up for questioning (as this would reduce bias in the debate). Was Channel 4 aware of any controversy regarding Claire Verity and were the Parents made aware of this before they agreed to the program? Would Social Services consider Claire Verity's methods of leaving a child outside to scream a child protection issue and did you ask for their advice on the methods used? As I said, I do appreciate your response and hope you will be able to answer some of these (and the many other questions) being raised on these boards and via the petition on Government Website. Thanks Chris |
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Oh my God, my heart is breaking for those poor babies. Does blood run through Claires veins? I have shed tears at this programme. The babys have come from the security and warmth of their mothers womb and been suddenly plunged into a cold and lonely world. I am praying that those parents have woke up to their babys needs, what are they thinking!!
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New Member
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quote: Originally posted by Andrea*M*:
Oh my God, my heart is breaking for those poor babies. Does blood run through Claires veins? I have shed tears at this programme. The babys have come from the security and warmth of their mothers womb and been suddenly plunged into a cold and lonely world. I am praying that those parents have woke up to their babys needs, what are they thinking!!
Would be intresting to know exactly how long Claire left them to scream when the twins parents went out? And did they know what happened when they were out, did they view to program before air? |
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http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/parentingshows/?signed=b668064.5cd77b I have just tried to post a note on this forum with balanced valid questions / points / comment and critisim regarding the commissioners notice and current evidenced research. No abusive language or swear words were use. As can be seen in my previous posts. This is what i received in reply... "Request Processed Thank you for contributing to this forum. Unfortunately, your post will not be displayed until after it is approved by community administrators, because one or more trigger words were used in your post. If and when the community administrators approve your post, it will appear in the forum. close this window" I assume it and this will not be posted also. There were links to reputable sites which have critised C4 around not highlighting the risks of Claire Verity's techiniques and a question as to why there is a C4 bloc to one of these sites on the C4 website which they advocate viewers should use... C4 have taken Big Brother to the extreme in their abuse of the media and children. I have now lost total respect for what i thought was a respectable Channel. Having followed the forum closely over the past few days i have seen numerous posts, removed. They are not interested in the scientific facts, just sensationalism. I wonder how many other's have and are currently being filtered or blocked... The commissioner does not appear to be interested in debate or open comment. I suggest using a different forum, sign the petition, complain to OFCOM, NSPCC or go to the papers..
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I have a 10 month old babe asleep on a fur blanket at my feet, and a 4.5 year old in the family bed. As a continuum concept mother, I rarely put my babies to sleep, but held them from birth securely in my arms. Their long term health was my priority, and therefore I breastfed them for beyond my wildest expectations. At first I thought that 6 weeks would be sufficient, and then I looked into the information available and made an informed decision to extend... They are such healthy, lovely babies, and they fit into my life, and into my sling! It was my choice to parent them as I have done, but this program has made me realise how lucky they are. I feel that the program has mentioned how much sleep the attachment parents are receiving, but more time is being given to the routine parents. Therefore the programme seems to be more centred on the routine being established rather than the natural parent being created. I am really worried about the attachment parent who is having difficulties breastfeeding after her traumatic birth experience. I find many parallels with my own experience after my first child. It was SO painful to feed, and I fought through the pain barrier. I had a lot of help with the birth trauma, and if the mother happened to read this, or any other mother suffering from birth trauma, I would like to recommend Shiela Kitzingers book, Birth Crisis.
those who matter don't mind, and those who mind don't matter (Dr Seuss)
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quote: Originally posted by Andrea*M*:
Oh my God, my heart is breaking for those poor babies. Does blood run through Claires veins? I have shed tears at this programme. The babys have come from the security and warmth of their mothers womb and been suddenly plunged into a cold and lonely world. I am praying that those parents have woke up to their babys needs, what are they thinking!!
While I see the merit of Channel 4 showing different parenting styles, I cannot understand why they have chosen to show a method of parenting that so clearly flies in the face of current guidelines and understanding of a childs needs. I am a new mother myself (with an 8 week old baby) and cannot understand how ANYONE, never mind a so called 'professional' can state that a baby 'doesn't need to be picked up'. It has been proven that babies need to feel loved and secure. A baby spends 9 months in its mothers womb, being able to hear and feel its mother continuously - taking that contact away after birth is like making a baby go emotionally 'cold-turkey'!! I totally understand why some parents need a structured routine rapidly the birth of their child, but there is no reason why plenty of cuddle time cannot be included into that routine. As for the baby being left outside to cry so they get plenty of fresh air....what is wrong with taking your baby on a long walk instead! That way, they get company plus fresh air!! For the record, my baby is breast-feed, fed on demand, has lots of love and cuddles, and has lots of time being carried in a sling, but will also happily spend time in his cot or on his playmat with his toys, is happy to be held by others, and is a happy and smiley baby who feeds and sleeps at the same times each day and goes to sleep at the same time every night, and sleeps through the night!!! |
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