Karen,

I know exactly what Controlled Crying is, I have read Gina Ford's books, and my Health Visitor gave me a 6 page A4 handout on how to do it when my eldest was 16 months old.

I know all the theories about "going in and settling" etc. I have read all about it, so I do understand it, and no matter how you dress it up, essentially, what "controlled crying" does is leave a baby to cry its self to sleep, just in stages, not all at one go. Ultimately, the baby cries until it falls asleep. You don't go in and stay with it until it is asleep, you leave it alone in it's cot, for longer and longer periods of time until it stops crying and falls asleep. Am I speaking another language (clearly I am, the language of compassion and selflessness) because this is what "controlled crying" does involve. Like it or not.

Don't get so up in arms about this, if you truely believe there is nothing wrong in not rocking/cuddling a baby to sleep, then why are you so upset when we use different words to say the same thing?

I have no problem about CC - you ask why I get upet?? perhaps that is because I have been accused of child abuse..........has anyone ever accused of this? It is distressing and cruel.....amd if I was so upset I would have stopped taking part in this forum...which I will never do.

I tried rocking etc my first child (as explained SO MANY TIMES) and this did not work.......I will contimue to recommend CC to anyomne who asks (it is then up to them if they want to adopt it) but I will not feel bad or guilty about it.

you finish all your posts with "I believe that controlled crying is child abuse"......do you not think that this is a very serious allegation??

Think I am getting confused!! are continuum momma and oranjeboom the same people....

ok....fair enough....it is my belief that people who think that CC is child abuse should read what any of the 'sleep clincis' have to say about it... and what many say about the benefits of a good nights sleep

Is it bad for your child to get a good night's sleep??

quote:

Originally posted by karen999:
Orangeboom - I am not failing to grasp anything....if leaving a baby to cry even for one minute is so dangerous why are we all still alive?

And no not "tired FROM crying......" tired becuase they are TIRED"........there is a huge difference.

I agree totally here!

also babies do not need to be fussed over all the time and have you run to them everytime they make a sound god we are not robots!

quote:

Originally posted by *x*~*x* Kate *x*~*x*:

quote:

Originally posted by karen999:
Orangeboom - I am not failing to grasp anything....if leaving a baby to cry even for one minute is so dangerous why are we all still alive?

And no not "tired FROM crying......" tired becuase they are TIRED"........there is a huge difference.

I agree totally here!

also babies do not need to be fussed over all the time and have you run to them everytime they make a sound god we are not robots!

You're missing the point that, shocking as it may seem, some of us never put our babies down in the first 6 months or so. No need to run to them if they're already there. Magical.

edit/ also we don't fuss over them, they're just there letting us know of their needs, we carry on our daily lives regardless.

"Some us NEVER put our babies down"....that is fine but I have to drive my child to school and pick her up...is the baby still meant to be strapped to me...also I have to have a shower...does the baby come in with me.....I also like to in-line skate....should she be attached...oh and recently I had a massage...think baby may have been squashed as I was lying flat down on the table.......no good saying that she should be attached to my partner...he is at work

Do you really NEVER EVER put your baby down??

It's not a hard and fast rule set. Of course safety is paramount, I didn't actually drive when mine were small, still don't but if we had to travel in cars then they went in a car seat for the duration of the journey.
It's not just about the mum holding them, it's a pass the parcel affair really. They were in arms, just not always mine.

Some babies need to have time out! whats gonna happen when you do put your baby down or she stays with someone else and she hates it and cries because she wants you the person she has been strapped to if your gonna use baby strapping make sure it aint just you she is strapped to.

TBH i wouldnt want my baby strapped to me as i was eating IMO tats dangerous!

No Karen, it doesn't have to be the mum that is holding the baby, dads can do it, so can grandmas, and friends, and siblings......

This leaves you free to skate, or have a massage or whatever you feel the need to do. As I said before, I did put mine down now and then, I was alone with them once my partner had gone back to work, so there were times when I would put them in the bouncer chair (especially if they were asleep) or in the pram to go shopping (though they often ended up in the sling anyway whilst I "carried" the shopping in the pram) and obviously they travelled in proper carseats in the car.

This isn't rocket science, it's instinct, nature, the continuum concept is basically "going with the flow" and not making hard and fast rules. And not leaving your baby to cry until it gives in and falls asleep.

And yes, the bit at the bottom, under the dotted line, is my signature, you didn't think I typed it out each time did you?? LOL

Well you see this is why this method would not work for me...I have to drive my child to school every day (40 mile round trip)... I have no close family near by....my partner leaves at 6am and gets in at 7pm.....I like to play with my eldest daugher on the trampoline, bikes, skates etc....this is why I like the routine that we are in....it means that as a partner I have time for my other half and as a mother I have time for my baby and my seven year old.....now what could possibly be wrong with that??

quote:

Originally posted by Continuum Momma:
No Karen, it doesn't have to be the mum that is holding the baby, dads can do it, so can grandmas, and friends, and siblings......

This leaves you free to skate, or have a massage or whatever you feel the need to do. As I said before, I did put mine down now and then, I was alone with them once my partner had gone back to work, so there were times when I would put them in the bouncer chair (especially if they were asleep) or in the pram to go shopping (though they often ended up in the sling anyway whilst I "carried" the shopping in the pram) and obviously they travelled in proper carseats in the car.

This isn't rocket science, it's instinct, nature, the continuum concept is basically "going with the flow" and not making hard and fast rules. And not leaving your baby to cry until it gives in and falls asleep.

And yes, the bit at the bottom, under the dotted line, is my signature, you didn't think I typed it out each time did you?? LOL

Im not being funny yeah but you know your babies cry right? the hunger one and so on so when your baby cries for NO reason what do you class that cry as???

You think that it is ok for my baby to be strapped to my 7 year old?? Yes, I let her help with feeds but to strap a baby to a 7 year old - are you mad.....I thought that "safety was paramount!!"

And how would my 7 yr old feel if she dropped the baby....I am sorry but that is way too much responsibility to put on siblings....

quote:

Originally posted by karen999:
"Some us NEVER put our babies down"....that is fine but I have to drive my child to school and pick her up...is the baby still meant to be strapped to me...also I have to have a shower...does the baby come in with me.....I also like to in-line skate....should she be attached...oh and recently I had a massage...think baby may have been squashed as I was lying flat down on the table.......no good saying that she should be attached to my partner...he is at work

Do you really NEVER EVER put your baby down??

NOTHING

cos at the end of the day you have your life to lead and you are also putting a stop to your daughter resenting the new baby by having it strapped to you and meeting all its needs on demand so therfore not paying attention to you o/h and other child! Well Done you!

My children had equal time spent on them and still do. With my second I was actually a single parent so it was tough on occasion, I can't deny it, however I still found that the continuum method worked best for all of us.
My oldest was never, and still is not jealous of her sister, they both have always had quality time. Small babies don't do a hell of a lot except observe life, feed, sleep and poop so I had loads of free time to be investigating the great outdoors (and indoors) with my inquisitive and contented almost 3 year old.

quote:

Originally posted by oranjeboom:
My children had equal time spent on them and still do. With my second I was actually a single parent so it was tough on occasion, I can't deny it, however I still found that the continuum method worked best for all of us.
My oldest was never, and still is not jealous of her sister, they both have always had quality time. Small babies don't do a hell of a lot except observe life, feed, sleep and poop so I had loads of free time to be investigating the great outdoors (and indoors) with my inquisitive and contented almost 3 year old.

Well im glad for you!

I do think though that babies need to be in a routeen to allow you to adjust after the birth and ger back to normal especially if you have other children.

The way I chose to do it, they adapted to my routines rather than creating new ones. I know it's not the norm so it does seem hard to understand when you've done things in a different way but it worked well for my family.

quote:

Originally posted by oranjeboom:
The way I chose to do it, they adapted to my routines rather than creating new ones. I know it's not the norm so it does seem hard to understand when you've done things in a different way but it worked well for my family.

Yeah different things work for different people but i dont understand how people can judge other parents and call their way of bringing up baby child abuse tbh that is very hurtful!

anyway have to be up early tomorrow!

im off to bed!

Night Kate - thanks for helping me out tonight!! Have been somewhat on my own the last few days!! Hope you are on the forum tomorrow....

quote:

Originally posted by *x*~*x* Kate *x*~*x*:

I do think though that babies need to be in a routeen to allow you to adjust after the birth and ger back to normal especially if you have other children.

I do get the feeling on reading some of these posts that there are people who really don't 'get' the whole concept of attachment parenting. People seem to think that when you're carrying and holding/feeding your baby you simply aren't capable of doing anything else - thinking, talking, playing, reading. Maybe that's because they're thinking about bottlefeeding. It's hard to do anything else when you're bottlefeeding because you need both hands, and you need to make sure you keep the bottle at a certain angle so your baby doesn't get lots of air along with the milk. Once you're bf confidently you don't really have to think about what you're doing at all.

Have to say that I've carried all my babies for much of the time and bf them on demand, day and night. I carried on studying, working and looking after my other children - I didn't find it a terrible tie or something that stopped me enjoying myself or giving my attention to other people. I think that lots of people in this country find motherhood psychologically and emotionally oppressive - that's why they need to 'put babies in their place', and 'get their bodies back' as quickly as possible. I'm really glad I've never felt this way. I don't think babies need to be fussed over - they just need to be held, loved and responded to like human beings.

Gabydolores - are you capable of driving?

quote:

e

Interesting thread!

This is my first post although I have been lurking over it for the last day or so..

From what I see going on, Karen and Kate are suggesting that leaving a baby to cry for a few minutes at a time and gradually extending that time to quite a long period of crying (ten minutes or so - is that right?) is an acceptable way to get their children to sleep.

On the other side of the coin, Olive green, Continuum Mama and Gabydolores recognize a baby's primary need is to be with his (or her) mother or some other care giver.

One school of thought is about getting the baby to sleep so parents can function as they used to before children - sleep deprivation is not funny.. and the amount of detachment from your babies seems to be a real issue for you - you are keen to get your babies to be independent and to sleep through the night on their own - for their own good and yours. You don't like to hold them too much in the day because you have other things to do and it isn't always practical with other children. You are happy your children who are older now know how to put themselves to bed - These children seem to see their beds as the place of safety. They will probably (I surmise)take themselves off to their rooms when they are upset - that is what they have learned.. if I'm sad, lonely, tired the place to be is my bed.


On the other hand, the other school of thought sees things from a more holistic viewpoint. Taking in to consideration that fact that a baby has spent 9 months in-utero. This child has heard his mother's voice and felt constant warmth and attachment. From the moment he is born, he will be beginning the journey to become less attached to his parents. But, for the first few months, his primary *need* is for attachment and security. A mother's over whelming instinct is to be close to her infant... listening to the child's needs and responding. Whenever it is *possible*.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that you drive with your child strapped to you - but when you get out of the car, sling that baby - reassure the baby you are still there and that there is closeness and contact. I believe Continuum mama has already made that point quite clear.

Babies cry as it is their only means of communicating as I see it. If you send them to their beds/car seat separately and often - I think the argument is that *that* is where they will learn to go for comfort and solace. That will become their shelter and refuge.

I think that is why the Controlled Crying' raises so many alarm bells. Our adult generation has a depression epidemic after all - and the counselling and therapy business is huge. I know my mother left me to cry and did not touch me throughout my own childhood. No doubt for my own good.

I'm thinking all these things through very seriously...

LilBigMouth - my daugher is loved, extrmemly well cared for and is picked up and cuddled if she is upset - I love to hold my baby in the day....of course I have other things to do but even if I am not holding her she is in the room with me and I constantly talk to her. We play a lot in the day and there is nothing lovlier than hearing her laugh.....I appreciate that others do thing differently and that is great......but I really am not the bad cruel mother that some posters are trying to imply.

Anyway I have been posting on this forum for a few days now and feel that I have explained myself....as you will have read from other posts. I get the impression that you do not agree with CC and that is fine.....but I can assure you that is not a case that I cannot be bothered holding my daughter!!