i had a baby in May and wasn't really pushed into anything.a few of the things I was told arethat feeding on demand is best, breast feeding is best but bottle feeding if you can't breast feed isn't to be snarled at, don't smoke round the baby, best not to have them in bed with you (those sorts of things) and my health visitor assured me that at some point a routine will be formed .. the best piece of advise she gave me was to enjoy my baby.
if she had told me to avoid eye contact when feeding, leave to cry because they only want attention and don't let her get the better of me cos she is only a baby, swaddle and leave in the garden for fresh air and the day you get home with the most precious thing in your life, dump it it its own room and shut the door, not going back in until 4 hours have passed .. i think i would have firstly punched her in the face and then quickly rung the men in the white coats to come and take her away!!!
never heard so much crap in my life and cannot believe that they are implementing it on a tv show in 2007!!
i have to totally agree with you i had my baby in july and wouldn't dream of leaving my baby to cry for more than a couple of mins (and only then when i have tried everything and know he is only crying because he is tired) let alone four hours. But do you know what the worst thing is.... people are actually still using this method, although now it has a new publishe, her name is gina ford and she has a book called the contented little baby. and who in their right mind would leave a new born baby out in the cold for four hours just days after it was born, then say no visiters because the bring germs.
I have to admit i'm a spock mum all the way, i think that the 70's regime is better than the 50's but it doesn't work for all mums, i bottle feed mym son as he wouldn't feed from me, when he did finally get soo hungry he fed he would suck soo hard he made me bleed, the 70's regime says i should breast feed anyway whether my baby starves or not.. no thanks, though i have to admit when i spoke to a health visitor about going onto bottle feeding she made me feel like a total falure and that i was a really bad mum for not gritting my teath through the pain and aguish and just get on with breast feeding, i have a new healthvisitor now and she cant believe i lasted a whole week before i went to bottles.
i think there should be a theory called the 'natural instinct' theory. i too was unable to breast feed due to lack of help and not really realising that they don't just latch on. my milk dried up after 4 days and never really came through although i tried.
i think im a spok mum but not intentionally! it just seems to have happened that way!
i agree with the germs thing!!! think of all the crap and fumes etc from the garden, let alone wasps and flies etc!
i think you must be a robot not to want to find out what is wrong with your baby when you hear it cry and if you are a good mum you know their cry anyway.
does that 50's woman think a baby should be left if it cries in pain with trapped wind? or left screaming after its had its jabs when they are all run down....
I have to correct you there servannah. Gina Ford's contented baby routine is absolutely not anything like Claire Verity's strict regime. Gina Ford recommends things like putting the baby in her own room but doesn't insist on it and is very flexible to suit the parents on things like that. She also doesn't have any silly rules that would leave a child unattended to, stuck out a back garden, or starved of love and cuddles. I think this Claire Verity woman is giving routines a bad name and the programme is aimed at raising everyone's emotions at these different techniques.
Personally, I don't think any of the techniques are 100 percent right because each baby is different and the parents are too. Obviously leaving a child unsupervised out the back garden is just madness, but then again, sleeping with your baby may not be the best for everyone too. The most important thing is to love your baby and not assume any level of routine is evil!
my "go with the flow mother natural instinct theory" seems to work. my baby girl who is 4 months old went to bed at 7pm, hasnt stirred once and wont wake up till 7am. if she cries i will put her dummy back in and if that doesnt work i will give her a bottle .. ooops... maybe i should leave her to cry for 4 hours while i laze around in bed!
Originally posted by servannah: I have to admit i'm a spock mum all the way, i think that the 70's regime is better than the 50's but it doesn't work for all mums, i bottle feed mym son as he wouldn't feed from me, when he did finally get soo hungry he fed he would suck soo hard he made me bleed, the 70's regime says i should breast feed anyway whether my baby starves or not.. no thanks, though i have to admit when i spoke to a health visitor about going onto bottle feeding she made me feel like a total falure and that i was a really bad mum for not gritting my teath through the pain and aguish and just get on with breast feeding, i have a new healthvisitor now and she cant believe i lasted a whole week before i went to bottles.
I don't know how anyone can say that you should breastfeed no matter what(70s method) I breast fed my first son up to 7 months no problems. My second is now 4 weeks old and being 'experienced' i thought i would breastfeed again. I had soooo much pain, blood blisters and would scream if anything got near my boobs. Every babay is different my second child was nearly 3lb heavier born so very hungry. My health visiter told me to do what felf right. I gave him bottles for a day, then tried again. thankfully it has all worked out for the best and I am breastfeeding again, but I will top him up on occasions with a bottle.
This is gonna sound controversial but how is giving a bottle a natural instinct. It might be a choice made after a great deal of consideration of the many issues involved but giving artificial milk is not natural at all.
The Continuum Concept says no bottles because it is actually just a study of a tribe where bottles were not an option and the mothers followed their natural instinct to breastfeed and did it successfully because they had seen it all their lives and had good support to do it and did it by demand and with no bottles in sight to undermine bfing.
When a frustrated mother feels she is not giving her baby enough milk she: 1 loses confidence and this in itself causes problems 2 tops up with bottles which gets in the way of demand feeding that is what keeps a supply strong.
I had some problems bfing pain with my first colic with both children I couldn't express a drop, but my babies were getting enough zero support all my family are in Australia, I didn't have friends here at the time with my first Health visitors suggesting I give water between feeds
If I did not have a strong conviction to bf my babies and bottles were avail I might have been tempted to but I stuck with it and am sooooo glad I did.
I do understand many women choose bottles for a variety of reasons but I am concerned that the natural instinct to bf has be skewed by the availability of bottled milk and the lack of education mothers have about bfing. I truly believe that so many of the mothers who wish to bf and fail could have done so under the right conditions.
i was determined to BF and was devestated when i couldnt so unless you have actually not been able to you wouldnt understand.
as long as the baby gets milk it shouldnt matter anyway. giving love and affection and safety and contact is far more important in my book, than where the milk comes from
The first 6months I breastfed my son I couldn't understand why so many women made so many excuses as to why they couldn't breastfeed.
Asking questions like; what would they do if formula had not been made? Ive come to the conclusion that as much as I believe in personal choice,that it is one of the many things this age sells to new perants as the many things that is not actually needed and waist of money.(money that could be saved for that childs future)
I think formula should be given on perscription for those who truely cannot breastfeed, and so that those poor mums should not have to pay so much to feed their babies when breastfeeding mums do it free.
"The more we give in to prudish, antediluvian ideas that doing what Nature intended is somehow gross and unsightly, the longer the pompus, shallow-minded, uneducated, ego-centric philistines who spread these ideas will continue to win. If a sexually frustrated man finds it awkward thats no concern of yours. BE BOLD, BE PROUD AND SHOW THEM WHOS BOSS!" Liz Fraser -The Yummy Mummy Survival Guide
One more thing.. How come suddenly after hundreds of years of women being able to breastfeed and now that we have another option have so many women become 'unable' to breastfeed? hmmm..
I don't think that formula should be on prescription because I think that it would be unfair to not allow women the choice to feed their babies the way they want to. It is the women's body and just as we cannot force women to reject an epidural because it carries a risk we cannot make women use their breasts to feed their babies. Yes it is a fact that Breast is best but formula is not so detrimental that that choice should be taken away. Parents do so many things that are not quite right, choice of diet, too much TV not enough exercise. But you cannot have a country where the government controls every aspect of your parenting it would be an even bigger problem to live in a coutry like that.
But I do think that the child and mother miss out by not choosing bfing and I do think there is so much misinformation. Even experts on bfing have so many unanswered questions. I feel very sorry for a mother who has really wanted to bf and been unable because the reason they are unable is in so many cases so very unclear. The focus should not be on telling Mums they must bf that certainly is not going to help the bfing process more likely it will just starve babies. But if a mother chooses to bf it should be taken very seriously by health professionals. If she is having difficulty there should be a referal process to Breastfeeding experts (not GPs or health visitors) to help and support like LLL (breastfeeding organisations that run mum groups). Also women need to be realistic about it sometimes it does hurt in the beginning and this goes away. Sometimes the baby wants to feed constantly, but this simply helps getting established and will slow down later. Sometimes babies don't latch on correctly and need to try and try again. As bfing continues their are times of baby feeding more often, this helps up the milk to cope with a growing baby. Bfing can be easy and it can be hard just as labour can be easier for some Mums but it really is best and Mums who have failed to bf should not be saying oh it really doesn't matter. Perhaps they should try to find answers so they can succeed with a second child or just telling new Mums it was hard for me but I wish you all the best make sure you get all the support you need.
Well I've tried to breastfeed all three of my children, and not managed more than a couple of days with any of them. And some would say perserverance would have had results, but my skin is so sensitive, I end up cracked and bleeding very quickly. Yes, my baby was latched on correctly, I had help and was doing it right, it just didn't work out. I cannot help having such sensitive skin, so its not pleasant having people say over and over again how I ought to be breast feeding, its my fault I got sore as I wasn't doing it right, or that I should have put up with the pain. Some people just cannot breastfeed, and its cruel to make them feel guilty for giving up.
agreed. to be honest i think the people who can do it are narrow minded into thinking everyone has it that easy. and yes, years ago everyone breast fed because their weren't formula feeds but 100 years ago babies dying was common place and if you look back to 50 years ago they started feeding their babies on solids at two weeks old, and could prob get away with not bfeeding and packing them out with food!!!!
Many women that bf know very well how hard bfing can be in the beginning. My breast hurt like heck with my first they were cracked and I remember biting down hard on things as I bf often. With my second it was fine. I do know!! No I do not know what it is like to fail completely and I appreciate that point.
I completely accept that every women has the choice of what they are willing to endure and they are not any less a women for their choices.
But I am so tired of women who failed saying that it is impossible for others, it isn't. For some it is and for those who have made many mistakes and sabotaged their feeding it is hard to recover perhaps impossible.
The reason bfing mothers go on so much about bfing is because they succeeded and why the hell shouldn't they be proud and want to share with other Mums that it is possible and it is worth it for many (not all mums). At least in general on a forum. I mean if I came across a Mum who couldn't do it I wouldn't rub here face in it and go on about it to her. But this is a forum that many Mums read and I don't want women to feel that it can't be done.
The truth is what bfing Mums are trying to get at. The truth is that scientifically most women can do it. The truth is that attitude and emoptions have a lot to do with success. This is the BIG difference between us and tribal women (from continuum concept). The truth is that the pressure women put on themselves to fit into a routine or to carry on doing everything else at the same time can ruin bfing in the beginning. The truth is that topping up with bottles can sabotage your supply and should only be done if absolutely necessary.
Why is this even an arguement surely just because you have failed to bf you don't want others to as well. Ok we don't want people to feel they are failures that is ridiculous, but should we the bfing Mums who quite frankly know a blooming lot about bfing stand by while myths and mis-information are bandied about this way and that, just so as not to offend. I wouldn't tell you how to bottle feed would I.
I agree with a lot that chelle6 has to say. I have breastfed one bub to a year and number 2 is nearly 4 months and still going. I was lucky to have a lot of support and have recently trained as a peer supporter to help other mums. There isn't enough support and help and unfortunately a lot of women who haven't managed to breastfeed - through no fault of there own - can make disparaging remarks and tell people how "difficult" it is but the moment a successful bf-er starts talking it's taken as a criticism and jumped on. There is also so much stuff about routine and sleeping through. Why have a baby if you don't want to have to change your life at all? Sorry if this is a bit rambling and ranty but so much to say and so little time.
i have not once said anythng against breast feeding or anything for bottle feeding. i don't quite understand where u are gettin this from. if you read back i am saying that a mothers instinct should be dominant and a mum should not be told by some1 like claire verity to leave her baby crying because of inforcing a strict routine. not about feeding a baby.
there wasnt actually anything that i said which mentioned my prefereces until you posted a comment.
you were able to BF. well done. i wanted to desperately and physically couldnt as the milk dried up before my baby latched on properly. i was given no support by the hospital as to getting my baby to latch on so i was unable to.
fair enough you are annoyed at people who are anti bf or just don't bother and say they couldn't - but you seem to be commenting for all breast feeding mums across the globe!
and your right, if i was given the support yes i probbaly could have breast fed but to be honest after a traumatic pregnancy and delivery i couldnt give a crap where my daughters milk comes from as long as she is healthy!
keep people informed about breast feeding - good on you, but realise that i didnt say anything about it so its no good preaching to me!
Blimey. I wasn't intending that as a personal comment on you. I also think that we're coming from the same point: people don't get enough support or help. At least you tried.
Think that was mostly aimed at me Boozle... Sorry , but you did say that bfing women are narrow minded and don't realise that bfing is difficult, I responded to that statement. And perhaps went on a bit of a rant after that to be sure.
OK I have now reread everything and think that this debate is my fault for hijaking a perfectly reasonable discussion about women working things out for themselves. Because I don't think bottle feeding is a natural instinctual choice. It is perfectly reasonable though and I was just being pedantic please accept my heartfelt apologies and I will now go and stand in the corner.
