I guess I can can kinda understand how hard it is to try to get a baby to feed the way they don't know. My babies luckily were bf from their first few minutes and they point blank refused any bottle I offered them even with breast milk in. I tried lots of different things with my first anyway on the advise of a health visitor who said I should get her used to bottles as well. With second I tried out of interest (and not that hard to be honest).
It must be sooo hard to get them to bf if they already know bottles. I truly feel for you.

I agree, we only have 80ish years on the planet and we can reverse even really bad health choices like smoking or bad eating. The lady in the program decided to push through this because bfing was that important to her and I believe she suceeded. I commend her for this and have to say I would have done the same because the benefits of bfing even on a practical level really suit me. I am sooo lazy!! . But you do have to make these choices for yourselves. And should be supported in your choices.

during my pregnancy i was told i had a 1 in 4 chance of my baby being born with downs syndrome. being only 24 years old this was a great shock. it should have been 1 in 1500 ish. so already i was anxious after declining all further invasive tests as i didnt care how she was born, she was mine. (this has nothing to do with any thing im just setting the scene!!!!!)

the problem i had was after having pre eclampsia my labour was only 4 hours after my waters were broken and after 7 1/2 cm dialted i needed to push. i had had pethedine and my babys heart rate dropped to dangerously low and so was prepped for a c section. luckily i took no notice of the dr and did as the midwife said and pushed even though i wasnt fully dialted and she was born safely without downs syndrome.

due to the pethedine she was very very sleepy and so even though she was laid on me naked straight after she had been checked she was asleep - i vaughly remember someone tryin to shove my nipple into her face.
one lady tried to help me after a few hours and we managed to squeeze 1ml out of my boob which baby took from a spoon. the following day over 14 hours after that she still hadnt had a feed (from a bottle of boob) even though i was tryin to breast feed and the midwives seemed to think this was ok.

after kicking up a fuss a butch woman came and shoved my babies face to my boob and said thats how you do it. i was so upset that i said i wanted to bottle feed and intended on trying to bf when i got home. as a first time mum although i had lots of family support i was just so relived that she was here and healthy that bottle seemed to be ok. after 4 days of trying to breast feed (along side bottle) my milk dried up and i was devstated.

i belive if i had been given the help in hosp i would have suceeded as i was determined but it didnt happen.
considering there were all these posters every where promoting bf i was given no support.

i do belive breast is best but sometimes it just isnt possible. i was just relieved she came into the world healthy - and now consiquently is a chunk!!!

ooo sorry for the essay!

You are a brave women emiky! Where do they find these butch women that are supposed to help women in their MOST vunerable state. It is unbelievable. I was having a little trouble in hosp with my first (nothing like you) but I asked for help and they said 'Are you bfing?'. I said yes they said 'Then just keep offering the breast' and left. Geez, lucky my hubby had stayed in hosp with me and helped me just holding the baby and basically trying to stay sane. I certainly wasn't after 2 days or so in labour and about 3 with no sleep.
They need courses in empathy just as a starting point.
No 2 was born at home with wonderful independent midwives mostly because I did not want to deal with the potluck of going into hospital. It was no fun going without the epidural, but other than that it was worth it for a sympathic team helping me.

if i have another i would love a home birth. ive seen the programs on living tv (lol) and it just seems to so controlled. i was too scared to have an epidural as i didnt want a wee bag or a drip - but ended up having both any ways - but the needle freaks me out.

i think i could do it on just gas and air (famous last words!!)

this butch woman def didnt have kids of her own and was quite intimidating.. and im not exaclty quiet as you may have guessed but you are really vunerable and emotional after having a baby. to some of them it is just a job which is wrong - but the ward i was on for 10 days b 4 having my baby were fantastic. really i needed it the other way around!

I absolutely loved and hated my homebirth! In hindsight I am soo glad I did it, the benefits to me, my baby and my first born were enormous. Plus I was a bit proud of myself and glad I went through that empowering experience, I even got to 'catch' my own baby. The women were angels it was like having two favourite aunts who were also highly qualified in midwifery. I had known them for months b4. I used Gas n air and it really did help and did get me through I was never out of control.
But the 2 hours of unbearable pain (I am a bit of a wimp) would just about put me off doing it again, I am not planning a 3rd anyway so don't
have to decide.
Would I recommend it. This question is very definately a personal choice!!!

By 2 hrs of pain I meant that the first say 6 hours or labour were very managable I handled the pain I had through relaxation even before using the pool. But the 2 hours up to the birth were very tough.

Strangely with my first the first part felt too hard at the time cause I was so scared. Then after about a day I got the epidural and was ok then they let it ware off so I could 'feel' when I wanted to push, so I was hit hard with the worst pain. I thought I might die then they put more in for birth. So on balance the homebirth was much easier. But I think I would handle and hospital birth better now with my new found confidence.

After having an emergency section (with my first son at 19) the midwife told me that after a section womens milk takes longer to come in and put formula into my son with no questions asked! I was so mad and proved that night that I could breastfeed him and was so proud when my milk came in on the fifth day and my son had put on weight before he was a week old! Was a hard first 6weeks but I kept at it and fed my son past 6months and am so proud that all the meat on him was my doing there times when you cant pump hardly an ounce out, or your nipples are cracked and bleeding, but dont giveup! it will get better! No one says its easy, but it does get easier! the longer you do it the better it gets! It works both ways, people who bottle feed which is actually the majority say they are made to feel guilty but the people who actually breastfeed the minority are made to feel like aliens doing whats natural..we are not all hippies or trying to make bottlefeeders feel bad..we are just doing the what we were made to do! and I actually think that breastfeeders feel more shy about feeding then bottlefeeders do becuase we are the minority! Its personal choice obvoiusly, but dont give up within days or bottlefeed to get back at someone else...or whatever...do what you feel is BEST for your baby...get help...try try and try again...takes weeks if not months for you and your baby to get used to it...but when you both have its the best feeling in the world!

Emilky I know exactly what you mean about the butch woman - my midwives were actually very nice ladies but obsessed with me breast feeding. Which wouldn't have been a problem as I was very keen to breast feed. I even got the breast feeding counsellor to come to visit whilst I was in the delivery suite to try to express some colostrom off.

I was being induced due to gestational diabetes and hospitals often bottle feed babies that are born to mums like me if the blood sugars are low. I wanted Ewan to have my milk to start with so they were going to give him my colostrum via syringe. However I produced just four drops from one breast and nothing from the other. Then we spent three days of midwives literally grabbing my boob and shoving it in Ewan's face - we managed to get something into him over those days.

At the end of day three they discovered Ewan had a hole in the heart and had lost 11 ounces in weight - strangely enough the midwives then decided topping up with bottle feeding may be a good option...We had to stay in for another 3 days until his weight began to improve.

I carried on trying to express as we needed to measure every ml that went into Ewan and would get about 40 mls a day (just 10 precious mls every time I expressed and that was the total for both boobs).

One week after we left hospital Ewan became very ill. We discovered that he had aortic stenosis which hadn't been picked up by the team at the original hospital. He basically couldn't get oxygenated blood round his body quickly enough to cope with feeding and breathing so had stopped feeding properly. His liver was enlarged and his veins collasped overnight. He had an emergency cathertisation (balloon inserted via a catheter through his groin and into his heart to pop open the damaged valve). After that and just 3 days in hospital he began feeding like a milk monster. I stayed on bottle feeding as part of his symptoms for things going wrong is him not taking a normal amount of feed over 24 hours - as I'd never got to grips with breast feeding I couldn't tell what was normal amounts of feed from the breast.

The other thing was that, whilst I was sitting with hubby by Ewan's bedside, my C-Section wound became infected. I was lucky to be able to see a midwife at that hospital who was very helpful BUT she said to me "if you want to try again with breastfeeding after all this you'll have to carry on expressing - breastfeeding is really the best thing for him". Which made me want to punch her - breastfeeding at that point was the least of my worries, having a live baby to feed by any method was my priority. So I let the milk dry up - there's only so many things you can concentrate on and being frantic with worry and in pain was enough as far as I was concerned.

I would have loved to have carried on breastfeeding Ewan (even though with his illness that would probably have meant expressing so we could keep an eye on volumes as we couldn't afford to let him slip with his weight whilst I learned to breast feed properly) but sometimes circumstances aren't on your side.

Having said that I always say to the ladies who worry about breast feeding "give it a go" I thoroughly enjoyed the few days that Ewan and I managed to feed together immensely BUT I'm enjoying my little 5 month old man being happy and gurgling with his bottle even more as when he was 2 weeks old we didn't think we'd get the chance to enjoy his smiles.

Jackie

my biggest regret was not speaking up enough during the birth and after. i had had masses of gas and air and wasnt not wiht it at all.

after i had phoebe i was left in a room for 3 hours due to a mass loss of blood. all i remember is that i kept falling asleep and waking up, looking at her and crying cos i was so scared. my mum and husband had gone home thinking everyhting was ok. im usually a stong person but the emotions of giving birth and the way i was so scared about what as going to happen next ie. blood transfusion or going to therte to detect the bleed, just knocked me for six and i felt like a scared 5 yr old.

lke you said, the fact she was alive and healthy, i was alive and had got through it were paramount.

you are a very brave/strong person to have got through all that.
arnt they just worth it in the end!

(that message was late last night and i didnt actually make my point lol )

nobody came in and helped me or laid her on me in those first few hours.
even if she was too sleepy from the pethidine or wasnt going to latch on i am a firm believer that a baby needs skin to skin contact with its mum as part of the bonding process.. and it would have been nice just to hold the little bugger that had kicked my ribs continuously for the past 4 weeks when she had run out of room in there!!!

maybe they were too busy to help, but also maybe they ruined my chances of sucessfully breast feeding my baby

Emiky hi, I was very moved by what you shared. I am sorry no one was there at the time; your own attunement to Phoebe's needs will already have made such a difference in her life. Lets all carry on campaigning.

Emiky Hi 14 years ago was no different the morning after I had my son I buzzed he was crying I couldn't get of bed due to epidural and stitches. The woman in the next bed picked my son for me.The midwife came is it you that keeps ringing. I felt like a small child I just shook my head ive just had an epidural i said humph she replyed why is that baby in the bed
he's crying I said well feed him then and stormed off. I must say there were some lovely midwives. This midwife must of been off the Claire Varity school.I had to have blood tranfusion I lost a lot of blood too. She snatched my son off my husband as he was feeding our son. She poored as milk down my boy, picked him up to wind him, he threw the lot back all over her.it was quite funny. She handed my son to another midwife and stormed.
I don think I had much chance of breast feeding and that the stitches.