hi i have my babys immunisation dates through! im now left with a feeling of slight worry i have been reading up on the individual side effects etc i am just worried now!!! does it get easier to make these desisions?
It's like most things as a parent, you think "am I doing the right thing?".....especially in connection with immunisations, however I have had both my children vaccinated. I just decided that I would not want to take the risk should they ever get ill. If they did fall ill and I had not had them vaccinated I would never have forgiven myself. However, it's a personal choice and only you can decide.
karen999 this is my thinking also. i hate the feeling of making a wrong decission . it is the first time i have ever had to decide anything that cud effect my child its a hard one but i guess they would not do them if the benifits did not out weigh the risks.
i am particularly worried about the mmr though as my friends bro now has autism and her whole family are convinced its because of the jab....... i can not comment on it but the fact her little nephew has it too makes me wonder if it is not a genetic link. (i dont claim to know much about genetics so dont suddenly all go bannanas at me saying im wrong lol)
she is not havin her little boy immunised against mmr and i can see why ..... but most people born now will have it so i want my baby to be vaccinated because soooo many people are absolutely fine
There is no medically proven link between immunisations and autism, there's a few decent links on Google to go and find out, I won't link here as Channel 4 seem to remove anything even if it's useful. Basically, the reasoning is that most parents of autistic kids notice their child to be "different" at about 19 months of age, just after the time that immunisations have taken place. Oddly enough the rate is the same if they've been immunised or not. It's just the timing of when autism becomes apparent and therefore appears to be somehow linked to the injections. Both my children were immunised, I think it's very important, 70 years ago if you got measles you could have ended up deaf, blind and even dead. By not immunising your child you're putting them in more danger if they do contract any of these diseases.
oranjeboom is right. There is no medically proven link between autism and vaccines. The one piece of research that has been done in the UK has been discredited both here and by the major world health orgs.
You not only put your own children at risk by not vaccinating, but other children too. We need herd immunity in order for serious childhood illness to be eradicated. In parts of London and East of England vaccinations have fallen blow 80% - as a result there have been outbreaks of measles in several schools, reported on the news recently.
We have become complacent here in the West because our children seem well-protected from illness. The reason that has happened is because we have easy, FREE acccess to vaccines.
Babies and children are dying every day in poor countries because they do not have access to vaccines or don't have the money to pay for them. We are lucky enough to be able to protect our children against common illnesses for free.
Yes I agree with olivegreen on this one, we need to think about the health of our whole community as well as our own children's health. Vaccination programmes protect everyone, and the diseases they are designed to avoid are nasty and could lead to a life of disability.
My five year old is severely Austistic, non verbal and Globally Developmentally Delayed. I had him vaccinated for MMR at 17 months old and until that point he was a precocious child, he did everything early and was chatting a few words and very ahead of his peers. The night of the day he was vaccinated he was quite poorly and was 'off' for several days after......it became apparent he was changing and several weeks later he had no eye contact, words, meltdowns and no pointing or playing any more.
I voiced my concerns to my HV and was told he was 'lazy', I was paranoid......but I knew sonething wasn't right and pursued help for almost two years before getting his diagnosis. He now attends a special school and is much improved in his abilities to tolerate surroundings, people, interaction and uses gesture to communicate. I wouldn't blame MMR for my son's disabilities, but I do think it accellerated his disabilities, it was like a trigger had been pulled.
I had serious doubts regarding having my now three year old daughter vaccinated and on advice of my GP it was decided that too err on the side of caution it was advisable to hold off vaccination until as late as possible. We had my daughter immunised at 2 years and 10 months and she is fine. The proof is there that every child is different to the next and I think you have to do what feels right in your heart. I know there is allegedly no link but when you have a child affected by Autism it is so scary when the next one comes along and you are at your wits end about whether you doing the right thing.
Good Luck and try not to worry!
--------------------------------------------- Proud recipient of her pulled birthday thread (all 20 mins of it!) 13/04/08....Do NOT mention the Buffet Tongue!
Founding Member of The LISA's Little Imps of the Smuttilicous Appreciation Society
Originally posted by chermy: Yes I agree with olivegreen on this one, we need to think about the health of our whole community as well as our own children's health. Vaccination programmes protect everyone, and the diseases they are designed to avoid are nasty and could lead to a life of disability.
I agree with olivegreen too they are to protect everyone. My daughter caught measles at 10 months it is really scary trying to her temperture down it just rages out of control, luckily she is nearly 9 now but on after effects but I wouldn't put any child through measles. Im no expert but they do say autism is genetic and it does starts to show up about 17 months as they don't develop any further, My nephew developed the autisic tendacies at this age.
glitteremma, I sympathise completely. Deciding whether to vaccinate or not has caused me great anxiety. I didn't want to put my baby at risk, nor did I want to inject him with nasty chemicals. For now at least I've decided not to immunise. This is mostly intuitive but I've read enough to back up my instinct.
My personal opinion is that the best immunity is health - for me that means full term breastfeeding, an optimal diet, exercise, lots of relaxation and love!
For the anti-vax view read Joanna Karpasea-Jones, Trevor Gunn, The Informed Parent website, Viera Scheibner, Michel Odent. For the pro view the NHS has a frequently updated and dedicated website. Apparently you can't include links in posts here so I haven't but of those can be easily Googled.
It still amazes me that people choose not vacinate their children with nasty chemicls! These people are do not see the bigger picture polio criples, diptheria kills, w and so on the reason these diseases no longer exist because vacination ,trust me you don't want your child to get measles its nasty for parents to think its ok for their child catch measles and infect the rest of the community. Its selfish
Originally posted by Rozzie 38: It still amazes me that people choose not vacinate their children with nasty chemicls! These people are do not see the bigger picture polio criples, diptheria kills, w and so on the reason these diseases no longer exist because vacination ,trust me you don't want your child to get measles its nasty for parents to think its ok for their child catch measles and infect the rest of the community. Its selfish
Not long to reply but it boils down to this:
Do you believe injecting a poison (yes, formaldehyde and mercury are poisons) past the body’s natural defense systems will make you strong and healthy? I personally don’t.
There is no proof vaccination programmes eliminate diseases. It is well-documented that dramatic falls in these diseases occurred before the introduction of vaccination. Measles was already 95% eradicated.
There IS plenty of proof that vaccines don’t immunise at all and plenty of studies that show outbreaks of measles in vaccinated people.
No, I don't want my child to get measles but it's not a killer disease in a healthy child with a strong immune system. I've had it myself so I am providing immunity for my baby with my breastmilk.
As for being selfish, if you really believe that vaccines work how could vaccinated children possibly be at risk from my (healthy) unvaccinated kid?
This is really difficult as, like the breastfeeding issue there is a lot of bad information out there.
I think the issues for most parents are, 'are the vaccinations one - safe and two - effective?'
I believe they are neither, as after having read a forestful of information I think we have been sorely misled to the detriment of everyone who has ever been vaccinated, by the big pharmaceutical companies. Vaccines are big buisiness for them and their marketing of them is dispicable.
The principal of vaccinations is that you inject a small amount of the virus into the body for it to make antibodies against - then if it comes into contact with it later, it will use those antibodies to fight it. The principal seems logical, and has proved effective, however where it has gone wrong is the additives that are added to the virus and the wya in which the virus is grown in the first place.
I won;t go into all the details here - I would recommend you read The Vaccination Bible or Vaccines - are they really safe and effective by Neil Miller - but viruses are 'grown' on various things, including monkey kidneys, chick embryos, newborn calf serum amongst many other things. Makes me cringe. Then onto that synthetic virus are added antibiotics, preservatives (formaldehyde - otherwise known as embalming fluid, mercury and thimerasol which is the main ingredient in antifreeze (!) and many others. This concoction goes into a babies immature immune system and does untold harm. Whilst the outward signs may appear ok, often the side effects do not present themselves for a couple of weeks and then they are not related to the vaciinations.
I have heard of situations where if a patient presents themselves with the measles symptoms, a doctor would not diagnose the illness as measles if they have been vaccinated!
We will hear about the number of cases of measles that has broken out this year because people are not tkaing up the MMR vaccine, but they never say how many of those cases have been vaccinated - if they did it would be a different story as it would be a high percentage.
The herd immunity that we have been told about does not exist - this is a made up thing to frighten people into having the vaccine.
As someone else has said, the best vaccine of all is total health through breastfeeding, natural light, good diet and a loving environment. Measles despite what we are led t believe does not need to be life threatening to a healthy child. I can appreciate the cases where it has been and I am not belittling those, but don;t belive everything you hear in the news - it is propoganda.
Read the books and make a properly informed choice - don;t vaccinate for everyone elses sake - if you have had your child vaccinated and therefore you belive protected then how can an unvaccinated one pose a risk? It is personal choice at the end of the day, but remember that a lot of thre 'research' and 'studies' that come out and we hear about have been commissioned and paid for by the pharmaceutical companies - not totally independent is it?
Not meaning to sound off or anything - I don;t want to belittle anyone elses comments at all - just thought I would add in what I know.
wow you really give a good point..... i am really torn now me and my fiancee just dont know what to do now we have a flaming week to decide!!!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Lou A: This is really difficult as, like the breastfeeding issue there is a lot of bad information out there.
I think the issues for most parents are, 'are the vaccinations one - safe and two - effective?'
I believe they are neither, as after having read a forestful of information I think we have been sorely misled to the detriment of everyone who has ever been vaccinated, by the big pharmaceutical companies. Vaccines are big buisiness for them and their marketing of them is dispicable.
The principal of vaccinations is that you inject a small amount of the virus into the body for it to make antibodies against - then if it comes into contact with it later, it will use those antibodies to fight it. The principal seems logical, and has proved effective, however where it has gone wrong is the additives that are added to the virus and the wya in which the virus is grown in the first place.
I won;t go into all the details here - I would recommend you read The Vaccination Bible or Vaccines - are they really safe and effective by Neil Miller - but viruses are 'grown' on various things, including monkey kidneys, chick embryos, newborn calf serum amongst many other things. Makes me cringe. Then onto that synthetic virus are added antibiotics, preservatives (formaldehyde - otherwise known as embalming fluid, mercury and thimerasol which is the main ingredient in antifreeze (!) and many others. This concoction goes into a babies immature immune system and does untold harm. Whilst the outward signs may appear ok, often the side effects do not present themselves for a couple of weeks and then they are not related to the vaciinations.
I have heard of situations where if a patient presents themselves with the measles symptoms, a doctor would not diagnose the illness as measles if they have been vaccinated!
We will hear about the number of cases of measles that has broken out this year because people are not tkaing up the MMR vaccine, but they never say how many of those cases have been vaccinated - if they did it would be a different story as it would be a high percentage.
The herd immunity that we have been told about does not exist - this is a made up thing to frighten people into having the vaccine.
As someone else has said, the best vaccine of all is total health through breastfeeding, natural light, good diet and a loving environment. Measles despite what we are led t believe does not need to be life threatening to a healthy child. I can appreciate the cases where it has been and I am not belittling those, but don;t belive everything you hear in the news - it is propoganda.
Read the books and make a properly informed choice - don;t vaccinate for everyone elses sake - if you have had your child vaccinated and therefore you belive protected then how can an unvaccinated one pose a risk? It is personal choice at the end of the day, but remember that a lot of thre 'research' and 'studies' that come out and we hear about have been commissioned and paid for by the pharmaceutical companies - not totally independent is it?
Not meaning to sound off or anything - I don;t want to belittle anyone elses comments at all - just thought I would add in what I know.
glitteremma - like I said, I've been there and it's not easy. Just remember that you can postpone vaccinations and have them done at any stage if you choose.
I explained to my doctor that I wanted more time to do some reading and she was fine about it. And she's fine about my decision not to vaccinate too - even though she's missing out on the nice bonuses doctors get for every vaccinated child (yet another of the factors that cloud the issue).
Lou A - I haven't read those particular books but I have read everything you say substantiated in other books/websites. I will check out those resources too. Thanks.
Don;t be panicked into anything - it is your baby not the Doctors - I would really recommend these books - ask your doctor to read them and then give their advice. I firmly believe that doctors don;t actually know the real truth - they are just told what these things supposedly do by pharma sales reps and I know two fo them and their targetting systems are outrageous!
I h ave heard these figures - if a doctors practice has 90% of its children vaccinated they receive a personal bonus of about £2500 a quarter. If this figure drops to 70% their bonus drops to £700. Hmmm - no incentive there then.
I'm afraid to say there is plenty of evidence to show that vaccinations are connected with a host ofillnesses and SIDS.
In fact - I have copied this headline frm the website what doctors don't tell you - a fantastic website have a look.
Vaccine manufacturers have paid out nearly $2bn in damages to parents in America whose children were harmed by one of the childhood jabs such as the MMR (measles-mumps-rubella) or DPT (diphtheria-pertussis-tetanus). In all, around 2,000 families have received compensation payments that have averaged $850,000 each. There are a further 700 claims that are going through the pipeline.
No-one can tell you what to do - it is your decision but I would recommend making a properly informed decision - the books I have quoted are extremely helpful - they give you the facts in a very clear way.
Personally I wouldn't put my children or myself near a vaccine, and the flu jabs are just as bad - there are over 300 known viruses that cause flu - the vaccine 'protects' against just 2 of them. And they change every year, but after the jabs have been manufactured so they are more than useless. The side effects are horrid so I would stay well clear, but that is my own opinion.
Read up as much as you can and then you cna make your decision.
I would say it is important for you to get your facts straight and think about the immunisations for as long as you need. I imagine your GP would be happy to talk over your fears with you. (I know that they have the bonus incentive, but they're not bad people and are there to help you make the best decision for your child.)
I realise some of the claims made about vaccines sound scary, but please don't listen to scaremongering - just the facts. I don't really want to talk about anyone specifically, but an example of what I mean has been said on this forum.... "Do you believe injecting a poison (yes, formaldehyde and mercury are poisons) past the body’s natural defense systems will make you strong and healthy? I personally don’t." That statement is not based on any fact or scientific evidence or scientific opinion. It is just using the word 'poison' to envoke your protective mothering instinct! As a rule, when it comes to having any chemical in our bodies the dose in which they enter is important, and the vaccine will have been through controls to make sure the dose is acceptable before it is allowed into the public domain.
I would also say that I've looked at some of the anti-vac sites and they seem to have homeopathic links of some kind. This makes me quite worried. They don't seem to advocating homeopathy directly, but by putting the links there they seem to be offering it as a viable alternative. Whatever your decision is, please don't be led to believe this is a viable alternative because it is not - homeopathy has been shown to work no better than a placebo in clinical trials.
And finally I would just like to reiterate what has been said before about the link between autism and the mmr jab. The work that said it found a link was an extremely poor piece of scientific work and has been completely discredited within the scientific community. Andrew Wakefield's research was conducted on 13 children. A study of 27, 749 children found no connection between MMR and autism or mercury and autism. (Fombonne et al, Pediatrics, 2006, vol 118;e139)
Glitteremma it is important for you to get the facts straight in your mind - GP's may be happy to talk through your fears but they will always advise you to vaccinate. The books I mentioned before will help you with the facts - they are written very clearly.
Autism is not the only problem with vaccines - there are plenty more.
But you need to be happy with whatever you decide.
Just because something has been through trials does not necessarily make it safe. GPs are certainly not bad people at all and I believe if they knew all the trouble vaccines really caused they wouldn;t be so in favour of them.
I would advise you to read as much as you can, collect your evidence and them show it to the GP and ask them to go through it.
No-one is scaremongering here - we are trying to help with the options. Just because some may come out against vaccinations does not mean this is caremongering - the facts about vaccines are scary - there are plenty of people who have had reactions to vaccines who will tell you that.
Just because you may not have a reaction to the injection the moment it is injected does not mean that it is not doing any harm.
And again there are plenty of people who will tell you that homeopathy does work very well.
Who says that proving something clinically or scientifically is the only way to prove something? It is what we have been led to believe but for many they don;t need anything proved to the n'th degree to know it works.
Anyway, sorry have gone off track again - good luck glitteremma with your research and don;t be rushed into anything.
The established scientific process is not infallible, but it is the best thing we have for scientific regulation. I am not sure what else you would suggest?
If we were to use anecdotal evidence instead then I could use the following to justify banning aloe vera and encouraging everyone to smoke freely:
Aloe vera makes my skin itchy. Therefore I conclude that aloe vera is bad for everyone's skin.
I know someone who smoked all their life and lived to 85. Therefore I conclude that smoking is not harmful.
Neither of these conclusions can be drawn from these findings with any certainty. And indeed even if I knew a fair few people in the same situation it is no replacement for a decent set of statistics.
This is clearly not a forum for debating homeopathy, but I was concerned about their presence on the anti-vac websites and that mothers would be keen to take these alternatives that market themselves as being somehow less intrusive and 'toxic' and therefore better for their child. There being a lot of people who tell us homeopathy works well does not equate to it actually working any more effectively than a placebo. (Again it is anecdotal evidence, that has not been compared with a control group.)
I was wondering whether you talked through your fears about vaccinations with your GP and how they answered your queries?
Daffodils - maybe we will have to agree to disagree?! I don't want to get into sniping with anyone - I know different things work for different people.
I can understand your comments.
What I was saying is that everyone always thinks that unless something is proven scientifically then it is no good. The smoking situation you mention is a common story - I think a lot of people know someone like that?
There was a time though when smoking was thought to be ok wasn't there? It is a similar argument - there are loads of chemicals we know about in cigarettes and loads we don't - you can smoke and not have an outward or immediate reaction to the cigarette but that doesn't mean that the chemcials are not eating away inside or doing other damage. Often the damage is not seen for years. And do we always link illnesses that people get to their smoking?
We could round and round couldn't we - it is an interesting debate and one which I guess we can't conclude on this forum!!
My concerns about va's are that there are four arguments about them which seem particularly pervasive;
1 - diseaes have been eliminated purely as a result of vaccination 2 -the diseases you vaccinate against are deadly 3 - Vaccines will protect you against these diseases 4 - The side effects of the vaccine are rare and mostly mild.
All of these are completely wrong and very misleading, and yet because people who we seem to hold in high regard tell us this then most people believe it.
I wish I had time to go into why these are wrong here - all I can say is they are explained very clearly and in a non-biased way in the books i mentioned.
If they also mentioned the following which are true facts, then I wonder how they would be taken?
1 - The viral matter that makes up part of the vaccine has to be grown in some way and currently they are grown through monkey kidney cells, chick embryo cells, rabbit and duck cells and mice cell.s Human cells are also used - rubella has been grown on the tissue of aborted foetuses and hepatitis B at one time was made from the blood of homosexual men who had had the diseas. There was a case of polio vaccines being contaminated with SV40 - a monkey virus.
2 - added to that are thimerosal - derived from mercury, formalin, (embalming fluid) and aluminium sulphate, Phenol (a disinfectant and dye) ethyene glucol, the main ingredient in anti-freeze, antispetics and anti-biotics.
What a combination for your body to have to deal with, let alone a baby who has an immature immune system.
I don't want to inject myself or my babies with animal cells, - who knows that infections could
