I've also been looking for this discussion. I was unable to post earlier as my old login details had been lost and I've had to re-register. Please direct me to the discussion. Thank you.
I have a number of questions I would like to ask about this programme. I wonder if anyone can answer this one. On the publicity for this programme it says that 5 million adults in the UK have a reading age of 12 or less. Does anyone know who did this research? What test was used? Is there a link to it? Many reading tests don't go above a reading age of 10 years because it is considered that they are not accurate after that level. I have read that a reading age of 9 is needed to read a tabloid newspaper. I would have thought that anyone with a reading age of 12 would be functionally literate and would improve with practise.
Sharon, you are welcome to copy and paste my question. I am a supply teacher working in the primary sector. Before doing supply I have spent 25 years teaching reading in various schools. I am dyslexic myself, along with my brothers and one son. Teaching reading is a passion for me. I just wish I could reach more people.
The estimates of people with 'low' literacy skills are based on the International Adult Literacy Survey (1997) and a government-commissioned survey: the Skills for Life Needs and Impact survey (2003). The figures have been critiqued for being based on test performance rather than everyday practices, and are very misleading. Most adults in the '5 million' have only minor needs, e.g. with spelling and punctuation. A small minority do have serious difficulties reading, and these are the people who most need our support.
I also would like to know where the discussion has gone? I registered new last night so that I could comment. I thought the programme was well done and have used some of the materials myself which do work! What I would like to say was that the two books recommended by the writer of the discussion are of a similar ilk to the ones given by the teacher. They are more guildlines than strategies on how to try to teach somone to read! I am looking forward to seeing the next programme.
kmt Thank you for that information, which is more or less what I expected. What isn't always clear to people outside education, is that different reading tests, test different aspects of reading. Some are simple word recognition tests, while others, like the National tests children take at 7, 11 and 14 are comprehension tests. And there are a range of diagnostic tests. You need to know what type of test is used to really understand the results. The media often use test results in a sensationalist way to further their own agenda.
A notice has just appeared on the main forum to say that some threads have gone missing due to technical difficulties. If so, I am glad this hasn't been due to over-zealous moderation. However, it would have been much more appropriate to respond on this forum, rather than to edit my posting and remove Sharon's.
Thank you KMT I have used the eastmidlandscpd and the TES forums to explain the outcomes of the strange happenings on this so called forum. Hopefully though it was all down to a technical hitch...yeah right te ho!
I didn't see the original discussion so can only guess as to its content. I have no interest in education but watched the programme out of curiosity. Does it really matter the definiton of being able to read or testing for comprehension? 5 million or 4 million? .This programme made me cry. I was so sad for the young lad who sat his GCSE's when he could only write his name. Who had diligently attended class and exams but was completely failed by a system and by every single person who was paid to provide his education. How can it possibly be? I also cried for the lady's sheer delight in being able to pick a pack of ham of the shelf. Shame on you pick holes if you wish I for one have no issues with someone higlighting such a basic failure in the education system if you don't like the methods or the voyeristic format of the programme fine but you are missing the point.
I was appalled by this programme. For many, many years reading was taught using a combination of phonics and 'look and say' methods, mainly. There is no reason why the methods used when I was in teaching cannot be used for adults, providing that the subject matter is changed. I was teaching in primary schools, 5 to 11 year olds, for 38 years and witnessed the failed attempts to introduce many new methods in my time. I thought the government representative in the programme was out of her depth and I thought the teacher attempting to get the project started was learning with the students.
Firstly with regard to the "five million adults in the UK with reading ages of 12 and under", a reading age of 12 is more than adequate for everyday reading. For example you wouldn't need a reading age greater than 12 to read this message board or a Harry Potter book. I've been having a look around reading research on the web and it seems that the number of adults with serious reading difficulties is about 1.1 million. I don't know how many of that group would be people with a learning disability (what used to be called mentally handicapped) obviously they need very special help with their reading. However I feel that the media would think a headline of 1.1 million would not be sensational enough. With regard to the type of test used. It does matter for when you are planning classes. When I was teaching in Primary schools we used three different reading tests. The Salford test is a simple test of reading sentences aloud. A child with reasonable word recognition and good phonics can do very well on this test. The Suffolk test is similar but the child has to insert a missing word into each sentence, so a small degree of comprehension is required. The national tests (known as SATs) require a much deeper understanding of a long text with quite searching questions. One child can have a reading age of 10.5years on the Salford test, 8.5 years on the Suffolk test and be at the level of an average 7 year old on the national tests. This child obviously needs a lot of help with comprehension but would be wasting her time learning phonics as she already has expertise in that area. I hope that explains why it is necessary to know the type of test used.
I thought the one or two examples pretty spectacular. Save your critcism for those who have already failed these people. If people are failing then maybe, just maybe its not all their fault and a one method suits all approach is not the correct one; If you have reached the age of sixteen are still attending school and still can only write your name then perhaps someone should have noticed?
This is intriguing as my first post on 'can't read, can't write' has disappeared too. I was criticising the research and the strategies. Surely Channel 4 don't only allow positive comments on their contentious programmes?
Well Kanisha it went a little something like this....... Regarding Helens post and the disappearing comments on the channel4 forum. I started that discussion yesterday: it was the first time that I'd posted a comment on the channel4 forum, I felt like many of you here and had stated my views. I had mentioned that it was an interesting programme and good that it increased the awareness of the skills for life agenda but that I had concerns about a teacher who wasn't experienced at teaching adults: upsetting learners at the initial assessment stage; setting up a very school like environment; observing an ESOL class; obviously unaware of the pre-entry curriculum and Access for All, etc. etc. There wasn't anything in my post or the subsequent replies that could be classed as untrue or offensive. Then today, 'hey presto' it's gone! Hence, I'm really disappointed that it isn't really a forum where one can air their views but a censored area which presents an inaccurate picture of the viewers’ comments. Almost as inaccurate as the programme itself! ...but that's so last week now :-) infact I'm looking forward to tom nights programme. If I feel the need to discuss anything after viewing, I can guarantee I won't be using this forum to do so!
Hi Sharon I have never commented on a TV forum before. My usual forums just don't do chat on education. I shall watch tonight from la belle France perhaps I have been out of the UK for too long. I sometimes struggle in a second language can't imagine what it must be like in your first.
I can't find the discussion for 'can't read can't write'. However, I watched the first show and was suprised that little things that we take for granted would mean alot for some people. Congragulations to Taresa as her progress was amazing and I believe this will chage her life a great deal. I believe that with the right tools and special teachers everyone can learn. These people are brave for coming forward and that is a strength. I can't wait to watch the nexp episode to night.
i can't believe Phil Beadle's attitude to his learner when she complained that she couldn't take in what he was writing on the board! He is accredited as 'super teacher' and yet resorts to swearing rather than control and shows no tolerance at all. The series has been extremely disappointing. More research would have provided a more complex and realistic window into the issue of adult literacy.
It was an intersting programme with some intersting methods being used. Some of which appear to work really well for some of the clients. I watched to see if there was anything about phonetical training thingy. As restly I have found my self wondering if it was possible for an adult to be taught thing like that. I've heard it work well in children.
I missed the 1st part of the programme, so I don't really no if these techneques where being tested.
JoPatten: I was unware it was difficult to assess reading ages above 10. As I've been given in the past some sort of reading tests the last one gave me the reading age of 14 but with a slower pace than expected. I asumed that this result was acurate.
Do you now what reading age you need to read a broad sheet? I've heard that it's 14.
Though in my experences even experts have bad days.
I remeber when I was at high school a learning support teacher once call one of the many dyslexic pupils in my English class stuiped. They shouldn't have said it BUT then again the school shouldn't have put so many pupils in the one class room that need extra support.
I supose my point is there is only so many people one proffesoanl can coupe with who need extra support (I'm geussing it's somewhere between 1 & 3 depending subject & level of difficulty) and that he shouldn't have done it on his own. He should have had someone else in with them during the classes to support him. This would have maybe have give the guy who really strugled more of a chance of learning more.
