My son is 9 months old and normally goes to sleep at 9pm he has his tea at 6 and then bath at 8 and bottle just before bed. we cant put him down to go to sleep on his own as he just screams and screams, he will fall asleep downstairs. he will then wake up once in the night - what for we are not always sure on and it takes a good hour to get him to settle again. we have tried near enough everything to get him to go to bed earlier and to sleep through. Please help?
I had this problem with my daugther who is 8 months old, she would go to bed at nine ish, but then wouldn't got up til about 9 either, and that was where the problem started.
What time does your son wake in the morning? And what time are his meals? 6 is a bit late for tea (but only my opinion) and maybe if you pushed everything back an hour, the bath, and bottle and bedtime would all be an hour earlier to.
The only way you could do that is by waking (gently) your son an hour earlier and then going from there. That is only the case if her is not already waking at say 6 in the morning.
My daugher wakes at 8, has breakfast, then some toast or rice cakes at 10, then lunch at 12, tea at 4 and then bedtime is between 7 and 8 (depending on weather it is bath night). They are all rough guidelines and not followed strictly, but it helps her to know where the day is going. I let her sleep whenever, and for as long as she likes, but chance would be a fine thing!
The bedtime, is the most important routine for my children and I have never had any problems, other than the odd bad night when they are poorly. They both have pj's on, then bottle, then straight into bed, awake or not, and then that is it. My son (2) sometimes sits in his room, songing and chatting to himself, but is usually asleep in 20 mins or so, and my daughter falls asleep in about 5 mins!
One way to help is to bite the bullet and let him cry it out, he will soon learn, but it is distressing for baby and parents.
Failing that try a massage after the bath, that is really relaxing.
But the only way that has worked for me is teaching them to fall asleep at an early age, but they can learn at any age.
Try putting him in his cot awake after his feed, sit with him and maybe have some soft music on and a bedroom light next door so he can see you. He may be happy with you in the room with him for security, and not need pyhisical contact. The sooner he can go to sleep on his own, the sooner he will sleep through the night. He will then know how to settle himself back off to sleep without any help from you.
lukes routine is: wakes up 6.30-7 breakfast=cereal 7-7.30 toast and bottle (with childminder) - 10-10.30 dinner=i.e.sandwich or beef stew, fruit & yoghurt - 12-12-.30 (childminder) bottle - 3.00-4 (childminder) pick him up and home for 5.30 tea and pud - 6 bath at 7.30-8 bottle & rusk - 8.00-9 He is so active i dont know how he doesnt fall to sleep earlier plus he only has 2-3 20 minute naps in the day. I will try and do everything an hour earlier and sit next to him in the cot at bedtime. Although we may have to let him cry it out because he just screams when we even sit next to him when he is in his cot. Oh its so frustrating. Thanks for you advice.
Although I don't want to compramise a childs health maybe try dropping that afternoon bottle and then he can have his tea at five.
Milk is the most important part of nutrition as we all know, so if he enjoys his bottles then it is hard to take it away, my daughter only has one at night now and she stiil gained a 1lb in 3 weeks which is really good for her. If he won't last without the bottle maybe a rusk or some rice cakes to keep him going til 5 as a snack.
I can understand that you might want to give him his tea yourself, but that may be the only thing keeping him up until later. My son went to nursery and he didn't have his tea until about 6, but he would never drink milk so with him it suited ok as he was still in bed at about 7.30.
As for letting him cry it out, it does seem cruel but I am all for it, as it is the only hard and fast way to help him to learn to fall asleep alone. Just stick to the golden rule of 15 mins and keep reassuring him. It will be hard at first, but soon enough you will se an impovement. Even if it that he goes from crying for 30 mins with you going into him.... to only crying for 15 mins.... the 5 etc. My son sort of cried/sang/talked himself to sleep every night until he was about 14 months old, but only for 2 or 3 minutes, it was his way of winding down. My son was very active like your little bundle, and sometimes it just takes active babies that little bit longer to be able to winde down after a day full of excitement!
Hi Just seen the topics related to sleep, really good discussion going on I ama Health Visitor with a fool proof way of getting your little one to sleep without falling into bad habits. Leaving babies to cry is definately a no no and not necessary.Of course one method does not fit all,and if the issue is not dealt with in an appropriate way then it will return.
When he wakes in the night does he have a bottle or do you just soothe him off to sleep? One waking in the night is great for a 9 month ld, many babies of this age are still waking twice or more, and to be honest there's nothing wrong with it, it's actually quite natural.
The cry is not just a sound; it's a signal – designed for the survival of the baby and development of the parents. By not responding to the cry, babies and parents lose. Here's why. In the early months of life, babies cannot verbalize their needs. To fill in the gap until the child is able to "speak our language," babies have a unique language called "crying." Baby senses a need, such as hunger for food or the need to be comforted when upset, and this need triggers a sound we call a cry. Baby does not ponder in his little mind, "It's 3:00 a.m. and I think I'll wake up mommy for a little snack." No! That faulty reasoning is placing an adult interpretation on a tiny infant. Also, babies do not have the mental acuity to figure out why a parent would respond to their cries at three in the afternoon, but not at three in the morning. The newborn who cries is saying: "I need something; something is not right here. Please make it right."
At the top of the list of unhelpful advice – one that every new parent is bound to hear – is "Let your baby cry-it-out." To see how unwise and unhelpful is this advice, let's analyze each word in this mother-baby connection- interfering phrase.
"Let your baby." Some third-party advisor who has no biological connection to your baby, no knowledge or investment in your baby, and isn't even there at 3:00 a.m. when your baby cries, has the nerve to pontificate to you how to respond to your baby's cries.
The cry is a marvelous design. Consider what might happen if the infant didn't cry. He's hungry, but doesn't awaken ("He sleeps through the night," brags the parent of a sleep-trained baby). He hurts, but doesn't let anyone know. The result of this lack of communication is known, ultimately, as "failure to thrive." "Thriving" means not only getting bigger, but growing to your full potential emotionally, physically, and intellectually.
"Cry…" Not only is the cry a wonderful design for babies; it is a useful divine design for parents, especially the mother. When a mother hears her baby cry, the blood flow to her breasts increases, accompanied by the biological urge to "pick up and nurse" her baby. ("Nurse" means comforting, not just breastfeeding.) As an added biological perk, the maternal hormones released when baby nurses relax the mother, so she gives a less tense and more nurturing response to her infant's needs. These biological changes – part of the design of the mother-baby communication network – explain why it's easy for someone else to advise you to let your baby cry, but difficult for you to do. That counterproductive advice is not biologically correct.
"It…" Consider what exactly is the "it" in "cry-it-out": an annoying habit? Unlikely, since babies don't enjoy crying. And, contrary to popular thought, crying is not "good for baby's lungs." That belief is not physiologically correct. The "it" is an emotional or physical need. Something is not right and the only way baby has of telling us this is to cry, pleading with us to make it right. Early on, consider baby's cry as signaling a need – communication rather than manipulation.
Parent tip: Babies cry to communicate – not manipulate "Out" What actually goes "out" of a baby, parents, and the relationship when a baby is left to cry-it-out? Since the cry is a baby's language, a communication tool, a baby has two choices if no one listens. Either he can cry louder, harder, and produce a more disturbing signal or he can clam up and become a "good baby" (meaning "quiet"). If no one listens, he will become a very discouraged baby. He'll learn the one thing you don't want him to: that he can't communicate.
Baby loses trust in the signal value of his cry – and perhaps baby also loses trust in the responsiveness of his caregivers. Not only does something vital go "out" of baby, an important ingredient in the parent- child relationship goes "out" of parents: sensitivity. When you respond intuitively to your infant's needs, as you practice this cue- response listening skill hundreds of times in the early months, baby learns to cue better (the cries take on a less disturbing and more communicative quality as baby learns to "talk better"). On the flip side of the mother-infant communication, you learn to read your infant's cries and respond appropriately (meaning when to say "yes" and when to say "no," and how fast). In time you learn the ultimate in crying sensitivity: to read baby's body language and respond to her pre-cry signals so baby doesn't always have to cry to communicate her needs.
What happens if you "harden your heart," view the cry as a control rather than a communication tool and turn a deaf ear to baby's cries? When you go against your basic biology, you desensitize yourself to your baby's signals and your instinctive responses. Eventually, the cry doesn't bother you. You lose trust in your baby's signals, and you lose trust in your ability to understand baby's primitive language. A distance develops between you and your baby and you run the risk of becoming what pediatricians refer to as a doctor-tell-me-what-to-do. You listen to a book instead of your baby. So, not listening and responding sensitively to baby's cries is a lose-lose situation: Baby loses trust in caregivers and caregivers lose trust in their own sensitivity.
Crying for lengthy periods results in increased levels of cortisol and other stress hormones, and some research indicates that this can inhibit neural development. Put simply, leaving a baby to cry can result in brain damage, so, as Patricia says, it's a huge no-no!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Nestle boycotting,nappy washing, co-sleeping, baby wearing, home birthing, tandem nursing Momma
Routines are for dancers, shedules are for trains
Attachment Parenting; the radical notion that babies and children are people too!!
No one especially myself is advising to let a baby ''cry it out'' when they need comfort..... my children both slept through from an early age, maybe because they learned to do it... maybe because they just wanted to sleep.
Either way, if my daughter was still wanting a feed, she would have it, I would not deny her or compramise her health. Howver she doesn't wake for a feed, but is not quite as placid as her brother was. If she does wake from time to time, yes, I will leave her for a few moments, as sometimes after 2 or 3 monutes she is fast asleep again. If I were to go to her immediatly she would definatly be crying for at least an hour, and probably cry herself to sleep.
Unfortunatly you dodged the question that Natasha was asking and instead filled her with a load of text book answers that will not help her when she is sleep deprived and upset because of her child's wakings.
Yes it is normal for a baby to seek confort, but natasha doesn want her child to sleep through, and not be filled with definitions of ''it's'' and ''outs'' as that doesn't really seem to make much sense.
Nobody (including myself) suggest you let a baby get into a state where they feel physically or emotionally neglected. But When it comes to the crunch, you either want them to sleep through, or you don't. An adult brain likes stability, and the ability to switch off, and personally, having children will never alloow that, but at least if a child is going to have a good sleep, you can at least 'relax' knowing baby is tucked up safe and warm until the morning.
My children have not lost the need to cry, and their cry does have value and purpose. A baby does not always cry because they are upset and in need of attention, it is there only way to vocalise 'anything' they need or want. There are millions of reasons why a baby may cry out, food, comfort and security are only a few. Not ateending to a baby in a split second doesn them no harm whatsoever, leaving them to cry for hours upon end .... yes, very harmful.
Like you said continuum Momma, it is only Natasha there at 3 in the morning, and only natasha there trying to get her 9 month old in bed before 9 at night. Nobody suggest she lets her baby cry uncontrolably...... and now she has the added worry from you continuum momma, that she may give her baby brain dmamge is she were to leave her child crying, that is a horrible thing to say to a parent!
My daughter sometimes has to cry, if for example, my son needs a nappy change and it is 'messy' and needs clean clothes etc, she is brought into the same room, but very often will cry if put on the floor, she gets really upset (she is 9 months old and very attatched) but I cannot stop the job at hand to ateend straight to her. Unfortunatly there are some instances where a baby will cry and nothing can be done about it. So I suppose she has got brain damage from what you are saying?
I would like to know where you base all your opinions which are cleaverly supported by facts. I think you need to be a bit more clever with your, how can I put it.... 'bed side manner'. When it comes to giving advise, 9 times out of 10, you come back with some off the wall comment filled with abuse and negative feedback about peoples parenting skills.
The Sears piece is talking about the damage done to babies that are consistantly ignored when they cry, like is done in "Controlled Crying", and it says that learning to ignore your childs cries like this leads to a dulling of your responsiveness. (The only true "control" used in "Controlled Crying" is the self-control required to fight your instinctive urge to respond to your baby)
Theres nothing abusive in my messages, but I don't think any one should be told that Controlled Crying is the way to go etc etc, as I (along with the NSPCC) consider it to be abusive to the child.
Leaving a baby to cry for a few minutes whilst you change a dirty nappy is totally different to leaving a baby to cry to teach it to "self soothe" so you can get an unninterrupted nights sleep. Isolated incidents like that don't cause brain damage, but prolonged, consistant crying can. The biggest danger with Controlled Crying is that it teaches people that it's ok to ignore thier childs needs, and it cn knock on to the way they deal with them in other ways. You may not be that simplistic, but other people are, and these people seem to *need* to be told how to do everything, which is why step-by-step baby care books like GF are so popular.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Nestle boycotting,nappy washing, co-sleeping, baby wearing, home birthing, tandem nursing Momma
Routines are for dancers, shedules are for trains
Attachment Parenting; the radical notion that babies and children are people too!!
Originally posted by Patricia C.: Hi Just seen the topics related to sleep, really good discussion going on I ama Health Visitor with a fool proof way of getting your little one to sleep without falling into bad habits. Leaving babies to cry is definately a no no and not necessary.Of course one method does not fit all,and if the issue is not dealt with in an appropriate way then it will return.
hi patricia just wondering what advise you could give me too?
Hi, I think you misunderstood me continuum momma as I never mentioned ''controlled crying'' or any such label. I was simply explaining how a good bedtime routien is what works for me, and how I deal with my child when she is going to bed. If she cries when she goes to sleep then there is definatly a reason why, and that would not go ignored. I never switch off, and their is always a moniter on to hear her. My point is that my daughter doesn't always need me to go straight to her the second she whimpers, as I am sure you know. Yes baby's are delicate emotional little things, and I beleive in encouraging babies/childrens emotions and I know that by helping a child to be emotional secure in early life is the best way to help in adult life when dealing with emotions.
I do not suggest that natasha lets her baby ''cry it out'' as you put it, but when a child cries there a different ways of dealing with it.
I do understand that what I do with my children is not gospel, and will not work for other parents, but that doesn't not mean that what I am doing is wrong, and what you are doing is right.
Unfortunatly in the world nothing is ever right or wrong. Our society is changing all the time as has been seen on the BUB program when it comes to parenting techniques. What we consider to be apopropriate or fashionable to do now as parents, may and will probably be considered as wrong in another decade.
I would also like to see what Patricia knnows and what the fool proof way of a child falling to sleep is.
Originally posted by Hysteria1983: As for letting him cry it out, it does seem cruel but I am all for it, as it is the only hard and fast way to help him to learn to fall asleep alone. Just stick to the golden rule of 15 mins and keep reassuring him. It will be hard at first, but soon enough you will se an impovement. Even if it that he goes from crying for 30 mins with you going into him.... to only crying for 15 mins.... the 5 etc. My son sort of cried/sang/talked himself to sleep every night until he was about 14 months old, but only for 2 or 3 minutes, it was his way of winding down.
What exactly are you suggesting here then? It sounds to me like you are recommending controlled crying, just not calling it that!!
Natasha,
I would suggest you just cuddle your son and let him find his own way. I have co-slept with both of my chidren, not with my first initially, so I did have to suffer what you are going through now, and the solution for us (came when she was nearly 18 months) was to bring her in our bed and let her be comforted all night, rather than expecting her to sleep alone.
Do you feed him when he wakes in the night or just try to get him back to sleep by rocking etc?
The practice of putting babies to sleep in seperate bedrooms and the expectaion of 12 hours sleep is a very modern thing. Only 100 years ago we all co-slept with our babies (except the aristocracy, who had nannies and wet nurses etc, who probably co-slept with the babies anyway) so your son is probably trying to make sense of something that is very foriegn to his instinctive expectations.
Ease up on him a little, be flexible and find a way that works for both of you, and don't expect him to fit in with a (unnatural and unrealistic) routine if it doesn't fit him. SOme babies just need to be held and cuddled in the night more than others, if you have a high needs one, the best solution is just to give him what he needs!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Nestle boycotting,nappy washing, co-sleeping, baby wearing, home birthing, tandem nursing Momma
Routines are for dancers, shedules are for trains
Attachment Parenting; the radical notion that babies and children are people too!!
Hi Natasha - it sounds like you are doing a fabulous job meeting the needs of your LO!
Your whole instinct and the fact that you are sensitive to his needs shows that you know he needs you to help him sleep. He is only 9 months old and you are still a huge part of his universe. Milk is, as Hysteria rightly says, the primary food for the first year - and he is still needing that reassurance that you are there - just as much as he needs you to provide his nutrition. By leaving him to cry himself to sleep, he may feel abandoned - and you can sense that he has an emotional need for you at bedtime.
Cuddling your own baby to sleep is one of life's real pleasures... but it sounds like you are exhausted!
Are you able to have him in bed with you? (as long as there is no where for him to roll out, wriggle under pillows or as long as neither you or your partner smoke/drink or are morbidly obese, co-sleeping may be an option for you)
Where does he sleep and where do you sleep?
His stomach is still fairly small and it sounds like he may need feeding in the night too - The other suggestion I have is for you to take him for walks in the day or swimming maybe? That could buy you a good hour in the afternoon for the both of you to have a nap - would that work?
Hi there I have the same problem. My one year old daughter still cannot sleep the night, I go to mothers and babies and it seems that everybody elses baby can except mine.
I tried to leave her crying it out at night, after I gave her, food, bath, story/singing> it is really distressing to hear her for 1 hour and still she does nto go to sleep. Some people have said that i should have put her in her room six months ago, and that she has got into bad habits(i feed her milk at night and rock her), so she wakes up and comes to expect it, and that she should be now be able to, when she wakes at night to self comfort and fall asleep like adults.
I just expected her now that she is older to develop more adult sleep patterns (no such luck). It does get me down as i am sleep deprived and tired. We are moving her into her own room this week, and will when she cries just go into the room pat her and sing to her until she is comforted and give her bottle than straight to cot with minimal holding(advice we were given by friends with grown up children).
Hopefully she will be able to when she wakes, comfort herself and put herself back to sleep. I can understand the crying it out thing, but with Katie it does not really work, just works up even more. We found that she goes to sleep on her own more if we lie in our bed beside her cot and pretend to sleep so she knows what to do. She cries a little than goes to sleep herself.
At what age are babies supposed to sleep the night, i am made to feel by some people that my baby is not normal because she does not.
My ten year old goes to bed at around 10:30, LOL...
I think paediatricians say that a sleep through for a baby under 2 years is 5 hours - I'll see if I can find that out for a fact.
I kinda stopped worrying about the whole sleep thing when I had my third - as long as I have enough sleep, they can do what they want as far as I'm concerned! At about 4 they can get nightmares and wake up then.. heck, there are some nights *I* don't sleep through!
i was just reading the baby whisperer, that seems quite good. I dont think that there is any tried and tested method to get your baby off to sleep though, so many conflicting views.
hi all i spoke to my health visitor on friday and she recommended to do controlled crying so although not keen on the idea on friday night we tried it. i do his tea now at 5.30 and then after a little play its upstairs and stay upstairs for bath, story, bottle and then bed for 8 so On friday i put him down and went out the room, he cried so after a minute or 2 i went back in and settled him back down i repeated this 3 times then left it for 15 minutes he cried for exactly 15 mins then went to sleep, sat i did the same and he settled after 10 mins and last night he fell asleep in less than 1 minute. Luke still wakes once through the night but we just settle him back down back cuddling him and offering him water. we are still trying to figure out why he wakes up but he has a bit of a cough so maybe its that, will have to wait for it to go until we know. me and my partner feel much more comfortable now after trying its as it has only been 3 nights and the improvement is amazing. i could never ignore Luke when he is crying as i listen to his crying to make sure he is not in distress, i would never let him get to that state because that is cruel. He is a very happy baby and has not changed since in any way since friday and he certainly has a mind of his own and tells you what he wants so i dont think there is any change of Luke feeling isolated etc. Luke is now asleep an hour earlier so we also feel like were having a break too. I will keep you updated anyway.
I am glad to see that you have had good results natasha, and I am sure that after a few night's of feeling like a bad person you now probably have a sense of relief that he is improving. Hopefully things will get better for him now.
You know him best and you know what his cries mean, and you know how best to deal with it.
I was beginning to feel as if I was the only one who has done this, even after being given this advice twice by the health visitor. But I have seen that it gets results.
I would never have let my children get to the point where they were basically exausted or beside themselves from crying, as it is awful, but this is not the case as my daughter doesn't cry herself to sleep. She is comfortable with her bedtime routine.
Hopefully Natasha if all goes well those night wakings may become more prolonged until they are a thing of that past. But the best outcome is for him to feel more settled at bedtime, and it sounds that you have got that far already.
Although some people love sleeping with their babies it is not for all of us. Do what you feel is best for your baby, and things will soon feel better.
Good luck and carry on doing a great job. Let me know how you get on over the next few weeks.
thanks for replying hysteria1983, it is hard work but i think its an improvement. last night was hard as it took him 30 minutes to settle then he woke at 4 this morning so i cuddled him and put him back down and after 10 minutes of moaning (not so much crying) he went back to sleep. I think this is because i had been in work all day (work mon-thurs 9-5) so lets see what this week brings. will write in next week.
Sorry, Continuum Momma, but that link has ABSOLUTELY NO MENTION of controlled crying - it's about neglect (which is NOT the same thing). A search of the NSPCC website doesn't give any results for controlled crying, so I'm not sure where you get the idea that the NSPCC agrees with your view on this - please do give a relevant link if you have one, however.
It is ABSOLUTELY clear that Hysteria and Natasha are talking about allowing their children to learn to self-soothe and get to sleep on their own, for the sake of the child's health (a child who constantly fails to sleep an adequate amount is definitely going to suffer, as opposed to the theoretical psychologicial damage that extended, exclusive use of controlled crying may cause). Not going to a child the instant they begin to whimper at night is NOT the same as neglect. If a tiny baby was NEVER attended to when they cried/screamed that would be neglect. If an older baby/child is sometimes left crying/whimpering for a few minutes, allowing them to learn a little self-reliance, that is perfectly reasonable. And THAT is what controlled crying is (or at least, what it is supposed to be - I know that some parents overuse it - which is, I think, what you are actually talking about).
My son cries when he is tired. I have finally learnt that, while sometimes he wants to be cuddled to sleep, at other times he needs to be left alone in order to fall asleep. Not to do so would be cruel.
