I don’t feel that I can contribute much here. I have no AmDram experience and so don’t really understand what they will require from the Co-Op. I therefore feel that I should not try to influence the direction that you more experienced folk are taking.

I thought I should point this out as a) I did not want you to think that I have lost interest and b) I am sure other observers are feeling the same.

I will offer an opinion when I think it relevant, and encourage our other guests to do the same.

I feel the same Playfull, and I get continually told off for it by certain persons

I think it's important for everyone involved to offer their opinion, otherwise, they aren't all that involved at all, and the more feedback you get, the more likely it is we'll end up doing it right.

Agreed, but on details like the £99 issue i have no idea if this is a good or bad thing.

Anyway i am sure you will be able to contribute much of value toward the web site etc.

And your Play of course....

I'm with the patron judge, all scripts must be proven top quality for a sponsor to be interested.

But the "extras" put forward are the whole point of making this website stand out from the rest. Writers would HAVE to pay for the benifits.

The alternative would be using a well established website that does not charge, no different from this proposed one without the extras.

LML: "So, do we need to come up with a good business plan now?"

I believe, in order;

1/ Bullet-point business plan
2/ Find patron-in-principle
3/ Find main sponsor-in-principle
4/ Complete business plan
5/ Prelaunch (set-up) activity
6/ Find other writers
7/ Complete www & open
8/ Launch to societies

I think that will take 5-6 months if we're lucky and - apart from sponsorship - it will be 8-9 months before we raise 'sales' revenue

Anyone disagree?

I think we'd need the more detailed business plan first. If you want someone to put their money/name in to it, they're going to want to see a very detailed plan.

I agree much of this will take time to plan, organise and implement. However one important item, that of the site name, can be decided on quite quickly. It will be vital to secure the top level domain names relevant to this - something that can be done now for very little cost.

Playfull - yep, I agree. I reckon we could easily have a domain up within a week or two.

LML - You'd be amazed at exactly how detailed a business plan already exists right here on this Forum; but, anyway, we can't make it too detailed without knowing who the sponsor is maybe going to be! If we were sponsored by (say) Google the BP would be very different to if we were sponsored by (say) C4, and that would be very different to if we were sponsored by (say) NatWest.

And I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that we won't be able to do it AT ALL without a sponsor - so there's no point writing too detailed a BP anyway!

Getting decent sponsorship is a high priority, as it will assist in giving the venture credibility.

I feel that to attract a sponsor, we need to have at least a basic website up and running to give them something to view. If this is impossible, some sort of visual presentation which can be used to pitch the project.

Come on then Adman - do you have any tame potential sponsors in your pocket?

Aurora - don't necessarily need the website (although a dummy front page/nav might be useful, just to exemplify); but a visual presentation will help when we get a face-to-face with a potential sponsor. It won't sell it if they don't want it or if they think it's a bad idea anyway.

Not bragging, but I once raised £500,000 in seed capital for a public-access tv company I wanted to form, more-or-less off a Word document - so it's not always necessary to have a Busby Berkeley routine behind it!

Playfull - nope, no sponsors in my pocket! But I don't think that's the first step; before we go there, we'll need a patron-in-principle; someone weightly and who can help judge the plays. If we can't find a patron, personally I think the duck's dead - because none of us are qualified to judge content and admission, and we have to have a QC ethos.

Note I've just added a new discussion on that point.

I'm currently keying up all the input so far, either direct to me or off this site, to circulate.

quote:

Originally posted by Adman 1961:
Not bragging, but I once raised £500,000 in seed capital for a public-access tv company I wanted to form, more-or-less off a Word document

Looks like we've got the right man for the right job then!

It's absolutely true, but it took a year and was amazingly complex ... I shouldn't really write verbal cheques my mouth cannot necessarily honour! I do however think we have a good enough concept to go seek what we need.

I reckon we need a minimum of £10,000 and, ideally, £50,000 or more ... this won't be a walk in the park, but looking at the outline business plan which is forming, it's feasible.

I think a dummy site would help, a picture says a thousand words and all that.

quote:

don't necessarily need the website (although a dummy front page/nav might be useful, just to exemplify)

LML - agreed. But don't forget we can't go anywhere too far without a sponsor-in-principle, and they'll want some say (and probably have some resource) to add to it!

Sorry I’ve been away for a day or so… Some good stuff has been shown here!

But I have to voice a note of concern… It all revolves around the £99 business. While I am the first to admit that I am no business guru, I do know about the agent business…

For an agent (and that is exactly what we are if we are promoting writers work for performance) it is unethical to ask for reading or any other form of upfront fee. Do a Google for ‘Predators and Editors’ and ‘Writer Beware’ and see what is expected of an agent and what they can and cannot do…

If we were to transfer any of these costs to the writer, we would instantly be blackballed!

However, this is not a showstopper… The £99 should not be chargeable to the writer, but to the group producing… And would probably make better business sense… Why?

We have to face the fact that when we accept a play, it will take some time before it gains it’s first performance. As such, does it make financial sense to develop all the artworks, flyer templates and dedicated web front ends for a play that is ‘resting’?

All that is really required is it’s graphics for the catalogue section and a sample poster mock-up for the site.

Once a club arranges performance rights, they have the option to pay £99 to have the ‘extras’ and that money is then invested in the play. (Sound prohibitive to a society? Ask them how much they spent on advertising for their last production!)

Again, we must ensure quality – but we should never disadvantage talent on the grounds of finance. The writers’ investment is their writing and the time taken to develop their work – not £!

Yup. I just don't fancy trying to explain the whole thing without a bit of backup. You could tie yourself in some pretty huge knots.

Hi folks

I agree that the £99 is an optional cost for all the fancy bits - which the writer would get anyway. I like the idea of the Society buying into it, too - maybe a large chunk of that goes back to the writer every time?

It's NOT an agent's fee; the writer doesn't have to pay it; but I think it's going to pull a play to the 'head of the line', and peronally I'd either pay it or get it sponsored!

Any more great ideas on how to convince societies to use us?

I'm working on an Amdram Site at the moment (http://www.amdram.net) that would love to list your details with a view to getting more Amdram groups involved.

I don't know if that's any help?

Hi all you regs! You guys are coming up with some inspiring stuff - so great to see. You're definitely going to make it happen!

Wanted to share some points based on my (limited) experience. First off, I think you're dead right in saying that you need a 'name' as patron for your enterprise. In fact, I'd say it's essential in this day and age of celebrity endorsement..and this is a HARD thing to find. I've worked with a lot of well-known actors, so of course contacted them first when I wanted a patron for my theatre company (which, I should add, finished a few years ago) and they were already innundated with requests. In the end, we got a lovely well-known actor to lend his name to our theatre company, and we managed to achieve this by assuring him that his patronage WASN'T GOING TO COST HIM A PENNY or take up any of his time. In fact, all we wanted was his name on our letterhead and publicity! We had to assure him of the quality of our product too, but I'm sure you won't have any trouble doing that once your website's up and running.

I wonder if being attached to a specific charity might help too? Maybe donate the proceedings from one performance per production to a worthwhile cause? Of course, you don't want to lose precious profit, but it all lends credibility and might be an extra incentive for potential patrons...besides of course being a jolly good thing to do!

How about trying to get sponsorship from a writing-related PRODUCT...like a pen or stationery company? WHSMITH? MICROSOFT!!! All long shots of course, but worth exploring.

Sadie

Your penultimate suggestion (ie a regular but only partial charity angle) is an excellent one - thanks for that.

The last one is already sort-of in the business plan.

If you'd like to be involved in any way drop me a line on services at kipshop dot co dot uk!

Adman
(Phil Swinford)