Having done a bit of surfing for writing competitions and seen many entry forms come through to my writing workshop, many seem to be limited to entries from a certain gender (i.e. women); entries from a certain ethnicity or from specific geographical areas.
My view is that it is perfectly acceptable to specify a theme for a play or short story but not to limit the entry by any other criteria. By all means insist that a play is set in the north-east; that it should be based around, for example an Afro Caribbean theme or community or even be on a certain theme such as love or racial issues or football. But by limiting the entry to writers of a certain gender, location or race organisers are devaluing the competition and perhaps losing out on some pertinent comment from people outside that group or area.
Classic examples are the Orange Prize for fiction and Virago publishing which are as far as I tell are only for women writers. The BBC writers room has, if I recall, recently listed a competition restricted to Afro Caribbean writers and currently lists two competitions restricted to North-east writers..
Writing is one of the few truly gender-neutral areas of endeavour and does not need such discrimination.
Of course there is no sour grapes here despite the fact that there will never be a writing competition restricted to white, middle aged male writers living in the Home Counties. At least TPTT is open to all!
What does anyone else think?
*Puts on crash helmet and flack jacket in anticipation!*
It does seem somewhat unfair to restrict the entries in that way. To borrow a phrase "It's political correctness gone mad!" They see that there are fewer black/northern/female playwrights and try to encourage more in to the field with a targeted competition, but really, it just doesn't make sense. I suppose the musical equivalent is the Best New Rapper award for middle-class, white females aged 39-65. If anyone finds that competition, let me know, I'll enter my Mum.
-Every rose has its thorns. Mine are all sticking in my side.
Erm... Where was the competition for women like? I might enter it myself.
This kind of complaint is a worrying trend; accusations of ‘positive discrimination’ where none exists. In fact, women are still VASTLY underrepresented in all aspects of screen, film and playwriting.
There were moanings and groanings before the Last Laugh competition, because applicants were asked to fill out a survey stating their gender and ethnicity and some (many) assumed that the BBC were going to use some kind of ‘positive discrimination’ quota system.
However, the results showed exactly the opposite – only 6 out of the 36 ‘winners’ were women… There was some speculation as to why… The fact that only 1/8 of the original base scripts were female may have had something to do with it… But there was no help offered to females there.
I wonder if some of the people who make these complaints really believe what they are saying. There seems to be some renewed vigour in the cultural backlash against women today. Well let me tell you – that if you were to take time out to read the statistics that accurately reflect the progress (or lack of) of women in the UK today – you’d see what grim reading they make and perhaps change your mind about the need for positive discrimination. I haven’t read similar statistics concerning ethnic issues, but at a guess, I’d say the same kind of thing is likely prevalent there.
Before continuing with these baseless accusations, please check out the ‘bottom line’ of what life is like for the average female in the UK today at http://www.fawcettsociety.org.uk and then come back and tell me how hard done to you are!
FYI - The orange prize for fiction is awarded after the fact as it were to a book already published to recognise the specific difficulties women have in the industry... Orange also do a prize for new writers... Should they get rid of that demographic split too?
The fact that you mention 'Virago' as an example is also quite a low blow - they're a publishers who concentrated on publishing women when women were still pretending to be men in order to get published. In short - they were providing the resources to publish what the other mainstream publishers did not want to publish. How is that now considered ‘feminism gone mad’ and hurtful to the white male, who is already OVER-represented in all forms of writing!? (I wish I had the energy to get more annoyed!)
Believe me MsMinxy I am in favour of equal opportunity for all in every walk of life and that is my point. And this was not intended to narrow down to a gender issue.
Nobody is denying that inequalities and prejudices exist everywher in life and in gender terms this works in both directions. Just one minor example - I forget the exact figure but far more is spent on medical screening for women than is spent on men. This is an area that is only just being addressed. What we need to do is to work together, not take militant stances that only harden attitudes so screening for men should be improved without taking resources from say breast cancer screening.
Incidentally a quick look at the site you mention shows that there are 32 trustees, President/vice presidents and committee members of the organisation - every single one of which is a woman so forgive me if I have some scepticism about their views being totally unbiased.
The point I was making is that if you want to be outward looking and find real solutions, whether it is to racial tension, gender inequalities, youth crime, globalism or just plain ignorance you have to involve everyone.
To give an illustration - if you are going to have a writing competition with, say, a theme of 'Asians in Britain'; don't restrict it. If I decided to enter I would talk to all my Asian friends, acquaintances and contacts plus do a lot of other research and get their views thus leading to greater understanding of the issues involved.
To take another example - If you ran a playwriting competition on "Women in the Armed Services" would you only accept entries from women? And would that give a balanced picture?
Just to make my position quite clear I am a total egalitarian and speak as one who competed for many years in a sport that had absolutely no gender discrimination - showjumping. I never had any problem if I was beaten by any other competitor because, regardless of gender, they had ridden better than me on the day. Incidentally, my best friend for 35 years until his death was a Goan Indian and I have been fortunate to have good relationships with people of all race, colours and creeds. (And genders !)
To me the reason d’être of writing (especially plays) is to hold up a mirror to society and challenge attitudes. This can only be done on an on the basis of honesty and openness not from entrenched attitudes on either side. Writers are by nature subversives starting with Chaucer & Shakespear. What we, as writers, have to do is point out injustices of all kinds. If you personally, come from a point where you feel women are not getting a fair deal then write it – if it is performed I promise I will do my best to come and see it with an open mind. But please don’t insist that it is a play only for women – that is achieving nothing.
I hope that my last posting didn't read like a middle class, middle aged, middle income, middle brow,white Anglo-Saxon, Protestant,male, Londoner (Islington), being condescending and patronising! For the record: I was actually born in the North East of England to Northern/Eastend of London parents . And boy, am I confused!
And as a civil servant I am fully supportive of the equal opportunity policies of my Department.
There are some interesting points being raised on this thread, and I just want to add something that I have observed...
As most of you know, I'm taking a degree in Interactive Multimedia, which is web design, digital graphics etc. Of approximately 50 students that started this course in the first, 10 of us were females. I have to say this didn't suprise me in the least. I was in an all-girls school, and my classmates went on to do degrees in art, english, history, politics, law and various sciences. I was the only one with an interest in computers. The basic fact is, my university wasn't discriminatory in its intake, it just so happens that women tend not to be interested in the particular area I study.
Equal Opportunities is important, I would expect to have the same rights and salary as a man doing the same job as me, but let's not forget that men and women are actually different. If there aren't very many female playwrights, maybe it's just because there aren't that many women interested in writing plays? To go back to my original analogy, there are not many white people making rap music, there are one or two, but for the most part we're making a different kind of music, because we are different. Not better or worse or whatever. Just not the same.
-Every rose has its thorns. Mine are all sticking in my side.
but let's not forget that men and women are actually different. If there aren't very many female playwrights, maybe it's just because there aren't that many women interested in writing plays?
LML vive la difference! Having both read your play and seen your photo I can say that you are both a good playwright and you make a happy man feel very old. If I was two years younger I would be up to Stoke before you could say "traffic jam on the M6". Neither comment detracts from the other.
Stoke really is charming at this time of year. It only rains 75% of the time.
If there was a competition only open to men, how many complaints do you think there would be? Or if there was a Music Of White Origin awards to go with the already established MOBOs? (MOWO sounds like the noise I make when I'm drunk and can't remember something actually)
-Every rose has its thorns. Mine are all sticking in my side.
My view is that it is perfectly acceptable to specify a theme for a play or short story but not to limit the entry by any other criteria.
Gravy - I read this thread very late last night and agreed with you 100% until about 10 seconds ago, when I had a thought.
I've always found it totally ludicrous that Liverpool, for instance, can have players from Spain. Or Italy. Or anywhere, frankly, outside of the Liverpool postcode district! I think that if you play for a team that's called 'Cheltenham' you should have been BORN in a GL51 postcode area. That's it. No exceptions. I have a very strong feeling about that.
Eerrrmmm ... but how do I square that away with a 'Welsh Writer's' competition? I can't! Or a 'Gloucestershire Writers' comp' I can't! (I'm not entering anyway, it's a £10 entry fee and only a £100 first prize - not even any performance/publishing element! I'd rather have entered for free and there be no prize!)
So ... national unrestricted-entry comps are fine with me, and 'local' or 'regional' comps are fine with me; why shouldn't a town, county or area want to draw together it's best - in anything?
But the 'blacks only' or 'jews only' sign always makes ME feel like I'm being made to sit in the back of the bus!
My seven year old son declared recently that it was unfair that there was a Mothers Day and a Fathers Day but no Childerens Day. We pointed out to him with the use of a sharpened stick that "EVERY OTHER DAY OF THE YEAR WAS KIDS DAY".
Trying to claim that white middle class men from the south of england (or any other part of england really) are somehow a repressed minority is a bit daft.
If a group wants to run a competition for Left Handed writers, or one legged writers or women writers or even white middle class male writers I say thats up to them.
My world view doesnt assume that people out there should be running competitions that I can enter, if they do then Im happy, if not ... well its a free country.
"I love deadlines - I love the woooshing noise they make as they go past." (Douglas Adams)
Yep - I agree with 99% of that! Freedom should be the overriding issue! But it's just not politically correct, and if you live in a politically correct and democratic world freedom is automatically restricted! The two are mutually exclusive.
The problem with 'freedom' is that it leads unnervingly close to Aleister Crowley's satanistic cabal 'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law' - which sounds like a good deal until you realise it justifies one's freedom to inflict anything on, or restrict anything from, anyone (or any group) anywhere!
Okay, a bit of an intellectual jump from writing competitions - but there is an issue here; before you decry my thinking, consider this.
We'd all probably state total abhorence if I ran a writing competition that said 'no jews will be considered' or 'no low-caste Asians' - but aren't they just as excluded as if I said it was a competition for, say, 'Afro-carribean authors only'?
An 'Afro-carribean authors only' competition, award or grant only holds water intellectually, morally, logically and emotionally if someone else is has the FREEDOM to publicise a 'white British' competition, award or grant only' - and, quite rightly, we don't.
So ... I agree with you 100%, but British Law doesn't! Because you CAN'T run a comp for your cited 'white middle-class male writers'!
Admittedly, the major stumbling block is one of 'race, colour and creed', because in trying to atone for our undeniable sins of the past the historical 'white Christian colonials' have swung too far the other way.
So I also have to agree with Gravy and LML - to bar anyone, anywhere, from entering any kind of competition has to be wrong; and even by doing so on a 'socially acceptable politically correct' positive basis ('black disabled gays') (which you can!) is as much discrimination as doing so on a negative basis ('white healthy heterosexuals') (which you can't). By extrapolation, you SHOULDN'T be allowed to run a comp for that which seems selective but fair by my own logic - with a geographic-bar implied by 'The Gloucestershire Playwrights Competition. It's not inclusive, but exclusive - which is the point, I think, that Gravy and LML make, and that I know Jay holds.
Errrm - I think!
Emotionally, I agree 100% with your claim for freedom for all, whether it's 'good' for you or not. Practically, that freedom doesn't exist anyway!
Regional comps: Each region in the BBC gets it’s own regional programming budget, because people pay their licenses to the BBC from ALL regions in the country… And it’s considered that people from a particular region may be more interested in local cultural affairs… If not, why not just have National Programming, or hell, just International programming!? I can’t see what the complaint is that regions want to use some of their funding to commission regional work!? There’s no justifiable complaint to be had there.
Minorities: Competitions and awards given to minorities are not there to antagonise the white, middle class male. They’re set to encourage particular minorities in writing. For example, the MOBO awards try to encourage diversity in the music business, but could ‘music of white origin awards’ be said to be doing that?
LilMiss… I don’t know where you have taken your information from, but women remain under-represented and lower paid in most fields of writing!
Virago Press & Female writers: Virago press started in the early 1970's when it WAS difficult for women to be published. Please go and research BEFORE you make assumptions... Let me paint a picture for you… In 1973 when Virago started - women didn't even have the vote in Switzerland! And frankly, there was little in the form of equal rights legislation in this country... Furthermore… women are still resorting to the gender ambiguity trick now! You only have to look as far as J.K.Rowling, who dropped her first name in favour of sounding less like a female writer! And she ADMITS this.
Fawcett Society: I was very disappointed to read the comments posted concerning the Fawcett society’s website. You tuned straight into the fact that it was a women’s issues organisation, which was run by women and promptly surmised that it must be producing propaganda! Fawcett has never pretended to be anything other than a women’s issues organisation, nor has it campaigned for anything more than EQUALITY.
In the UK, practically 100% of all organisations are run by a majoritatively male management or trustee board. Are they incapable of producing anything but propaganda?
This notion that the ‘bar has swung too far the other way’ I hear a LOT these days.
On the face of it, I can almost see why. People in power do not like giving up power – and equality necessitates that – a sharing of power.
My first degree was in Economics and Maths… So I can interpret statistics when I see them and what has shocked me recently, is that in today’s Britain, where this bar has apparently swung too far the other way - the difference in the financial and social status of the UK’s men and women is appalling!
Let me just explain… For an economy to have an underlying ‘poor’ population is an unfortunate fact of life… In most modern western democracies, the aim is to reduce the relative poverty of that small minority… Not just because you want to be nice, but because of the potential for civil unrest if that population grows too large. When you get to 20% you start to worry… Because that’s when the civil unrest begins to rise…
The last statistics I saw for the UK, showed that 20% of males lived ‘in poverty’. (Poverty being the definition set down by Europe)… However for women… the underlying changes in social trends are starting to filter through … Such as the fact that now, 1 in 4 households are headed by a single women and the situation for women is much more dire.
Do you know what percentage of women are living in poverty in the UK right now?... No? I know you don’t, because you wouldn’t be winging about that bar swinging too far the other way!
50%... Half of all women living in the UK today live in poverty. FACT.
And I note, that the UK still uses the average male manual workers wage as a benchmark figure (pick up any calendar with financial statistics on it and you will see)… You’ve got to ask yourselves why.
Half of all women working in the UK work in part-time jobs… The majority of Part-time Jobs in the UK are held by women. Part time jobs are low paid jobs… But was it chicken or egg…? Note, 25 years ago a woman working part time, per hour of work could expect 59% of a mans wage equivalent hourly wage… Today it is… 59%. Oh God! I can feel that pendulum can you… too far!?
Even when you take out part-time workers and compare only male and female full time workers… women on average earn only 76% of the male wage… And studies done by independent institutions – like the LSE - say that about half of that they can’t possibly be attributed to anything other than sexism! So LilMiss… Look forward to graduation, but don’t expect to get paid the same for the same job you do as any of the 40 males on your course – nothing personal like – just can’t let that pendulum swing too far you know!
If there is a quiet and persistent effort to do something in the higher echelons of power about women and working in the UK – in any industry - it’s because there is a mighty big problem mate and not because women are taking over your nice, white, male, world. In reality - that bar you like to talk about has actually started to swing back… But you’re too busy complaining about how hard done to you are to see it!
For example, the MOBO awards try to encourage diversity in the music business, but could ‘music of white origin awards’ be said to be doing that?
Minxy - YES, YES, YES IT COULD!
I'm not a great music buff, but what origins does music currently reflect? Blues, soul, rock n roll, jazz - all of non-white, non-British origin!
When was the last time you heard a hit record played featuring a Double Aulos? A Zither? A Sackbut?
Me neither. And it would probably sound rotten. But the point is that it is acceptable, legal and safe to advertise MOBO but not the MOWO!
For me, I would DEMAND equality to both enter and stage anything I chose. But that very demand implies freedom, as Zabriel suggests, and with that freedom comes the automatic right to restrict others from entering 'my' competition - and that allows prejudice!
It's a tricky one, I agree; so my take on it is simple, and I go back to agreeing with Gravy and LML.
State whatever restriction and stipulation you want for theme, topic, content, whatever - but not for entrant!
Originally posted by Adman 1961: The problem with 'freedom' is that it leads unnervingly close to Aleister Crowley's satanistic cabal 'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law'
Hi Adman,
Just a note, the preferred interpretation of this is 'Do As You Will, With Harm To None'
Ohhh, there really should be more Sackbut in the charts
We live in a multi-racial, multi-cultural society, I don't think anyone can disagree with that. The problem exists that "positive discrimination" is still discriminiation.
This is the way that I see it, and I'll continue to use music as an example of all art forms. Asian people will tend to make "asian music", black people, "black music" and white people "white music", with a few crossovers in each. But why then, is it ok to hold special award ceremonies for black music, or asian music, but not ok to celebrate white music? Why are black musicians encouraged to make "white music" but white rappers are considered (for the most part) to somehow be inferior to black?
You could use religion as another example...There are many different faiths in England today, and you'll notice that someone's race will probably have a large bearing on the way that they worship. Why? Because it is all different cultures.
If there aren't many black playwrights, then perhaps the reason for this is that in "black culture" they might have a different way of expressing themselves and commenting on their lives, yet for some reason we feel the need to encourage them in to what is maybe a "white artform". Why isn't it ok for playwrights to be mostly white?
As people take up residency in other countries more and more I would hate to see that culture becomes uniform across the globe. Keep the identity of different countries and races by allowing them to keep and celebrate their own art and culture. If a black person moves to the UK let them demonstrate their own art and let us learn from it, don't let's try to suck them in to listening to Phil Collins.
Part of the racial discrimination problem is that, while a few racist nutters remain, the rest of us are somehow trying to make up for the unjust treatment of other races by our very distant ancestors.
As to the issue of women, it's a similar problem. Yes, women have been discriminated against and been 2nd class citizens in the past which is why there are societies to promote their interests and laws in place to prevent sexual discrimination. But to use the Fawcett Society as an example, an equivalent men's society who existed to make sure that "men's issues" were at the centre of a general election campaign, would be considered ridiculous. how are "women's issues" going to be differ
!)
