Very true - but before parting with your cash, you have to conduct a cost/benefit analysis to determine if it is worthwhile. And you base that on the information that you have been presented with (poor analogy, but you wouldn't buy a new car without reading the reviews in What Car?).

And again, that's why I've asked the questions about the marketing.

Now you are sounding like a stuffed shirt Jaysplays! I am imagining you sitting there doing a very detailed accounts analysis with your bank statements spread out in an orderly fashion in front of you! This is a play! Creative, exciting, stimulating! Stop worrying about money! You are such a bloke!

Nikip/Jay

If I may analogise... yes, marketing gives spin (don't I know it!) - but you can only spin something so far. For instance; I drive a 20 year old Ford Probe which I'm slowly putting back into concourse condition because I like coupes, I like wide, heavy cars, and I like the solid build quality of older models.

You could maybe get me to consider buying (say) a 1985 Mazda RX6; but you wouldn't get me even looking at a Renault 5. Chalk and cheese; you can't 'spin' a R5 enough to get my interest up!

I'm know the R5 is a successful model, and I have no criticism of the designer or the buyers. I'm just not interested in it!

Off the point again Ad Man! The point is that I and many others are interested in YOUR opinion, and until you have seen it for yourself, then you will continue to talk about cars!

Admittedly, as a writer I felt a need to see this play, purely to see the results.

But, had this not been TPTT, I would not have gone to see it. As much as it's possible to argue that you should see any piece of theatre available, the pitch will always be an important motivator. If anything, it probably reflects why TPTT is closing early - if your pitch and themes aren't drawing people in then something needs a rethink. It doesn't make it a bad play - but you have to think about your audience if you want to be a successful playwright in your lifetime. Certainly doesn't rule out post death success though - if they play is well written.

And, Nikip, it's not about the money! If I won the lottery I STILL wouldn't be seen dead in a modern people-mover! I might be attracted to (say) a new Merc220E Coupe - but that's about as far as I'd go.

If you offered to have me picked up and hotelled overnight and gave me the best tickets for The Third Day, I'd be trying to swap them for Donkey's Years, Hay Fever, Jeffrey Barnard Is Unwell, Grumpy Old Women or (the classic and quite brilliant - if now slightly dated and cliched ) See How They Run!

No offence Kate!

All I can say AdMan is that you cannot slate a play that you haven't seen. And you have been less than kindly, except when you have been "silverbacking."

To Mrs. Rachie, aah a relief! Someone sensible! Of course the marketing is incredibly important and influences the people's choice. But what moved me to write on here was the play. I have always owned that I am not sure that it was marketed correctly. But my original point was that it was not the fault of the playwright that this play had to close. I believe that some comments were made about how the "best play didn't win" etc etc. And it is that point that I wholeheartedly disagree with.

quote:

I and many others are interested in YOUR opinion

Good God, Nikip, I don't believe so, and I sincerely hope not! But even assuming that your statement is correct - you're now asking me to go and see a play I already don't believe I would like whatsoever merely as some sort of exercise for you?

And knowing my current opinion - what credibility would my review hold over and above the many, many reviews already out there from highly experienced critics? I certainly wouldn't give myself any credence!

It is not about me!! It is about you! I am actually talking to you as a newly acquired acquaintance and pointing out that your credibility now is far more in question because you HAVEN'T seen it. I am delighted about your enthusiastic participation and all that. It is wonderful to see someone genuinely interested in a project. Then show your genuine interest Ad Man, and allow me and anyone visiting this forum to hear a "real" voice of opinion. That would be very valuable.

quote:

Originally posted by nikip:
All I can say AdMan is that you cannot slate a play that you haven't seen. And you have been less than kindly, except when you have been "silverbacking."

Nikip, I haven't seen the play, and as far as I can recall I haven't been less than kindly about it and CERTAINLY I don't think I've slated it! I MAY have had observations about what I've seen on the tv, or in reviews - but I don't think I've ever said it is a bad play.

Also - you miss the point about 'silverback'. It's not really intended as a compliment as such, it's more of an insult.

And Ad Man. Your egotistical voice does not have to be heard "over and above" anyone's! It is not a competition for the best critique!

You are still misunderstanding me. I am saying give yourself credibility.

quote:

Originally posted by nikip:
I am actually talking to you as a newly acquired acquaintance and pointing out that your credibility now is far more in question because you HAVEN'T seen it ... show your genuine interest Ad Man, and allow me and anyone visiting this forum to hear a "real" voice of opinion. That would be very valuable.

This is beginning to look ominous...

Nikip - I claim no credibility to critique this play, and I don't critique this play! In any case - what value would the opinion be of someone who openly admits to not enjoying plays with these type of serious issues?

I'm an old-fashioned, end-of-the-pier, not-very-intellectual old vaudeville hack Nikip! I enjoy comedies that make me wipe the tears of laughter from my eyes at times, and (importantly) to which, should I wish, I can take my wife and children and see THEM laughing.

Before anyone starts stomping on me - this has started merely because I raised a question about the greater publicity this play has had!

I AM NOT CRITIQUEING THIS PLAY!

I AM NOT CRITICISING THIS PLAY!

Ok! I have cornered you enough! In that case, my favourite car is a Ford Focus!

quote:

Originally posted by nikip:
And Ad Man. Your egotistical voice does not have to be heard "over and above" anyone's! It is not a competition for the best critique!

Nikip - with all due respect, if you must attempt to quote me to attempt to justify some sort of anti-AdMan point, please quote me and do not paraphrase me.

I asked what value my critique would have over and above others' - NOT whether my voice would be heard over and above others - and the point I was making is that any critique I might raise about the play would be flawed precisely because I don't enjoy plays centred around contentious, emotional or dark issues!

Mr. Flippant! I believe I called a temporary truce!

quote:

Originally posted by nikip:
Ok! I have cornered you enough! In that case, my favourite car is a Ford Focus!

1. No you haven't!
2. Your opinion is noted!

Glad to be "noted!" PS are you a flippant, egotistical, non dark thinker who bear a grudge?!?

When people call a truce it's generally because they're out of ammo. But I accept your white flag, and I'm sending up a couple of internet doves - one for each of us!

quote:

PS are you a flippant, egotistical, non dark thinker who bear a grudge?!?

Nope - I'm a flippant, egotistical, non dark thinker who doesn't bear grudges but has a long memory!

I will accept your dove with good grace, applaud your good memory and forgiving soul, and if you want some more ammo, I am always happy to oblige!

Oh and Ad Man, my fiance is very similar to you in his love of comedy. He is not too keen on dark themes either. But he absolutely loved it and said he had not expected it to be so funny! And I would take my kids to see it too!

quote:

And I would take my kids to see it too!

Wow.

For Mrs Rachie, then; you had some interesting comments in your own earlier review (I can't remember the source thread) about the graphic nature of the self-harm scene and you being uncomfortable about the incest scenes with the children.

I have two daughters, 9 and 11, neither particularly streetwise or rufty-tufty. Opinion on suitability? That, and language / the 'losing virginity' plot etc?

I merely ask...

In a million years I wouldn't take kids to see it (depends of course on the age - but young kids, no way). I personally find watching suicide scenes more than a little traumatic, and wouldn't want a child to experience it. I'm sure the rest of the play would appeal, but for that scene alone no way - it's too graphic.