What does the term Racist mean to you? How strong do you find it to be? Is it acceptable to use it flippantly or does it cheapen the meaning of the word and thus should it be used sparingly for the real racists in this world?
"Without free speech no search for truth is possible... no discovery of truth is useful... Better a thousandfold abuse of free speech than denial of free speech. The abuse dies in a day, but the denial slays the life of the people, and entombs the hope of the race." - Charles Bradlaugh.
Seriously though, i do think this is an issue that needs talking about. It pains me to see the word bandied around, maybe the definition is a lot more subjective than we give it but when i see/hear it used as a simple and deliberate form of abuse it annoys me. Because when real cases of racism come along it's sometimes detremental to the very serious cases. Such as this (i hate linking to the Sun)
Now IMHO if i was in a situation like that man and it came to the legal proceedings and i hear "well how do we know you really suffered with racism, are you sure you didn't just say this flippantly" i would be absolutely fuming that i wasn't being taken seriously or pushed away to avoid the problem.
okay jadey, from my pov most of the posters on here are not racist because if they really were they would not hang around on this forum for long. At worst some folk are guilty of being plain ignorant (you know the ones) of the cause and effect or race related issues, which is not a crime, but as they can't say anything meaningful why they don't STFU is a mystery.
For me I prefer not to discuss the topic as trying to explain is a waste of time with quite a few posters. Sooner or later the topic degenerates into 'them and us', before you know it you have white folk complaining of media bias against white english people and black people complaining about slavery and its effects, I won't comment re Asians because generally they seem to just get on with it.
Sometimes some people want to feel wronged so that they don't have to look at the real reason behind an issue.
As for the Army well not so long ago they were wheeling out Private Beharry as a role model of black folk in the Army he got the VC for his action in Iraq. Now we have this other poor sod getting the ar$e end of army life. Many said if Beharry had been white he would not have got the VC, who knows, but he saved a lot of lives who were white.
Are the posters who said the above racists, jealous, ignorant or sh1te stirring....tough one.
Intrestingly I wonder how long this thread will last before the real bigots turn up to trash it.
Originally posted by shuggie: Are the posters who said the above racists, jealous, ignorant or sh1te stirring....tough one.
I quite resent that Shuggie i thought it was an interesting topic to talk about which is why i made it up in the first place. We have very few decent topics on this forum at the moment, rather than bickering i thought it would be a little more pro active to address topics like this.
I'm actually quite offended, i've never been a sh2t stirrer in my life.
Seriously though, i do think this is an issue that needs talking about. It pains me to see the word bandied around, maybe the definition is a lot more subjective than we give it but when i see/hear it used as a simple and deliberate form of abuse it annoys me. Because when real cases of racism come along it's sometimes detremental to the very serious cases. Such as this (i hate linking to the Sun)
Now IMHO if i was in a situation like that man and it came to the legal proceedings and i hear "well how do we know you really suffered with racism, are you sure you didn't just say this flippantly" i would be absolutely fuming that i wasn't being taken seriously or pushed away to avoid the problem.
Yeah, you're right. I wasn't laughing at the subject, just the post and what's gone on to inspire it.
I agree, I'd be fuming too if I'd been treat as badly as this soldier in the face of obvious racism like that. I think whether someone has suffered is irrelevant really as it's the intent with which the comments and abuse were made that is the factor. Anyway, will post more on this tomorrow as it's now hom time.
"Without free speech no search for truth is possible... no discovery of truth is useful... Better a thousandfold abuse of free speech than denial of free speech. The abuse dies in a day, but the denial slays the life of the people, and entombs the hope of the race." - Charles Bradlaugh.
Originally posted by shuggie: Are the posters who said the above racists, jealous, ignorant or sh1te stirring....tough one.
I quite resent that Shuggie i thought it was an interesting topic to talk about which is why i made it up in the first place. We have very few decent topics on this forum at the moment, rather than bickering i thought it would be a little more pro active to address topics like this.
I'm actually quite offended, i've never been a sh2t stirrer in my life.
Erm Jadey thought you knew me better than that When I mentioned are the above posters who said the above I am on about what they said about Private Beharry's VC not the thread itself, please re-read.
Erm Jadey thought you knew me better than that When I mentioned are the above posters who said the above I am on about what they said about Private Beharry's VC not the thread itself, please re-read.
Sorry Shuggie I did think it was strange, my apologies (((((Shuggs))))) Even Mackem wasn't sure.
Originally posted by shuggie: Are the posters who said the above racists, jealous, ignorant or sh1te stirring....tough one.
are you talking about me ??
Nope, my post is being mis-interpreted, my comment re the posters was relating to what they said about Private Beharry getting the VC because he was black.
I think there are varying degrees of racism with threshold points for different people: e.g. U have the hardporncore in your face BNP stylee Then you can have the employers who will give you a job but not promotion, if you are able. An act like wanting to marry their sons/daughters can be the threshold point for others.
Then there others who have no thresholds, and just treat all n sundry as individuals!
I dont think it holds very much in the way of hard meaning now. It HAS been used so freely by people against others for the smallest thing, that over time it has become so diluted and meaningless that if someone was to call me racist right now, it would bother me less than if I was called a silly sausage by a clown. Infact I'd go as far as saying that the word has gone down so steeply in recent years that it just makes people look pathetic when they lash out with its use when they are lost for anything else to say in an argument etc.
The word racist is thrown about and used far to easily these days IMO. Although some may be well-meaning in their intentions it seems to be that overuse and application of the word in quite odd circumstances simply trivialises how degrading and violating it feels to be a victim of racist abuse or racial discrimination.
While I agree that there is a possibility of such a thing as "subversive" or "subconscious" racism existing in some people's minds but in the grand scheme of things isn't it far more important to tackle racism that is unashamed and apparent?
Factors - such as a black or asian person being yet to win a reality show voted for by the public - have been used as indicators that this society is racist. Do the results of inconsequential popularity contests where looks and age and not talent, personality or even intelligence seem to be the main deciders really provide an insight into the ideals and beliefs of this society?
*********************** Girls will be boys and boys will be girls It's a mixed up muddled up shook up world except for Lola
Do the results of inconsequential popularity contests where looks and age and not talent, personality or even intelligence seem to be the main deciders really provide an insight into the ideals and beliefs of this society?
Actually it does provide an insight, exactly what you just described.
Originally posted by DJ: Actually it does provide an insight, exactly what you just described.
I'll agree it provides an insight into the ideals of a certain section of society - usually the young female proportion of society that vote - but I'm not so sure if it reflects society as a whole or can be used as an indicator of how racist society is.
Westlife won "Record of the Year" but I'm not so sure how well they would do if a wider section of this society actually voted. I'm sure I remember Robbie Williams being voted "Artist of the Millennium" in one poll.
*********************** Girls will be boys and boys will be girls It's a mixed up muddled up shook up world except for Lola
Originally posted by DJ: Actually it does provide an insight, exactly what you just described.
I'll agree it provides an insight into the ideals of a certain section of society - usually the young female proportion of society that vote - but I'm not so sure if it reflects society as a whole or can be used as an indicator of how racist society is.
Westlife won "Record of the Year" but I'm not so sure how well they would do if a wider section of this society actually voted. I'm sure I remember Robbie Williams being voted "Artist of the Millennium" in one poll.
I do find it worrying that people now seem ready to judge the character of a nation based on the whims of people stupid enough to give money to Endemol by voting on Big Brother.
Racism to me means the belief that race, the colour of your skin etc is the main decider on your character and abilities.
It's intresting that there seems to be an attempt by the elites of the Social Sciences to re-define the word to mean prejudice by the dominant ethnic group in any society against minority ethnic groups. This now seems to be coming into acceptance as the meaning of the word racist. Intrestingly this definition seems to rest on the people who are being racist being the ones holding all the power. This would means groups like the BNP aren't actually racist as they hold no power.
Racism to me means the belief that race, the colour of your skin etc is the main decider on your character and abilities.
Agree. I'm not very good with words (putting my views across,) but feel some people just don't see beyond the colour of your skin. It's as if you're just black/asian/african or whatever and have nothing of value to offer? LOL told you am not very good with words
Originally posted by kitZ: Agree. I'm not very good with words (putting my views across,) but feel some people just don't see beyond the colour of your skin. It's as if you're just black/asian/african or whatever and have nothing of value to offer? LOL told you am not very good with words
Let's not pretend that we don't know what racism is, be it covert or overt. Its a bit like the U.S.A opposing any plans to send UN troops to Rwanda while the genocide was in its early stages. They {the Americans} kept trying to define what was genocide, even when the dubious French provided strong evidence that it was going on.
I rather not engage in such rubbish semantics here, as there's evidence of what is racist every where for those with eyes to see and ears to hear. You can play the Amimerican role, but I'm not doing that charade.
