Originally posted by zwaraaaa: There are 0, repeat 0, anti-racist movements which can accept criticism without accusing the critic of being a secret racist. Why is this?
This is a rather sweeping statement!
Anti-racist movts exist to highlight racism the better to attack it. As such, it's not surprising if they see racism where other people often choose to ignore it!
I'm not sure about 'secret racism'. Why 'secret'? And does it matter if the criticism of the group comes from an ethnic minority source?
This is mainly in response to their commonly held views of subconscious racism, genetics, racial demographics, white privilege, reverse racism, collective thinking and frequent demagoguery. Practically anyone who challenges, points out or disagrees with these has achieved the grounds to be labelled a racist.
Subconscious racism does not exist in the majority of the population. Evolution occurred over the past 70000 years. The white demographic is shrinking. White privilege covers both the absence of racism and benefits due to acts of racism by others. Proponents treat them as the same thing in their reasonnings using "white privilege". Reverse racism is unjustified as it punishes those not responsible. Collective thinking involves treating groups as single entities and is the fallacious reasonning behind racism, it is also the same reasonning behind white privilege and reverse racism aswell as some other things.
Originally posted by zwaraaaa: There are 0, repeat 0, anti-racist movements which can accept criticism without accusing the critic of being a secret racist. Why is this?
It only bothers those that are actually are, those that aren't deal with the allegation appropriately, no big deal.
Originally posted by zwaraaaa: This is mainly in response to their commonly held views of subconscious racism, genetics, racial demographics, white privilege, reverse racism, collective thinking and frequent demagoguery. Practically anyone who challenges, points out or disagrees with these has achieved the grounds to be labelled a racist.
Subconscious racism does not exist in the majority of the population. Evolution occurred over the past 70000 years. The white demographic is shrinking. White privilege covers both the absence of racism and benefits due to acts of racism by others. Proponents treat them as the same thing in their reasonnings using "white privilege". Reverse racism is unjustified as it punishes those not responsible. Collective thinking involves treating groups as single entities and is the fallacious reasonning behind racism, it is also the same reasonning behind white privilege and reverse racism aswell as some other things.
What you seem to be saying, unless I'm mistaken, is that anti-racist movements are unnecessary and even dangerous. It's unlikely that anyone who has benefitted from anti-racist activism will agree with you.
Originally posted by zwaraaaa: Your conclusion is wrong.
What you might have to do, then, is explain what you think these organisations ought to be doing that they're not doing. You're the one, after all, who's declared that '0, repeat 0 of anti-racist movements' had the right attitude.
Wrong. I said "There are 0, repeat 0, anti-racist movements which can accept criticism without accusing the critic of being a secret racist. Why is this?".
Every noble cause will attract people trying to mix their agenda up with it and going on to claim people who disagree with their agenda of being opponents of the noble cause. It does not take long to notice people who take culture too seriously and those of the marxist line of ideologies have adopted anti-racism as a marketting strategy. Undoubtedly many of their supporters are indeed anti-racist, but where do their priorities lie? With their culture and ideals or with anti-racism?
Originally posted by Miss Dee: Anti-racist movts exist to highlight racism the better to attack it. As such, it's not surprising if they see racism where other people often choose to ignore it!
Other side of the coin - they see it when it isn't there
Originally posted by Miss Dee: Anti-racist movts exist to highlight racism the better to attack it. As such, it's not surprising if they see racism where other people often choose to ignore it!
Other side of the coin - they see it when it isn't there
Actually, it might help if we had some examples of these racist anti-racists! It would be interesting to know where to find this non-racist world where anti-racists apparently see non-existent racism. Maybe they're worried they'll be out of a job if they don't make up horrid stories about all the nice people out there!
Originally posted by zwaraaaa: Every noble cause will attract people trying to mix their agenda up with it and going on to claim people who disagree with their agenda of being opponents of the noble cause. It does not take long to notice people who take culture too seriously and those of the marxist line of ideologies have adopted anti-racism as a marketting strategy. Undoubtedly many of their supporters are indeed anti-racist, but where do their priorities lie? With their culture and ideals or with anti-racism?
Interestingly, anti-racist activists have often run into problems when trying to link their concerns with traditional Marxist thought. Have you ever heard of Aime Cesaire, the Martiniquan founder of the negritude movement? He famously left the Communists because the French Communist hierarchy was not willing to see the race problem as distinct from the class problem.
Even today I get the impression that European left wing activists are often disinclined to see race a separate, if related issue.
Originally posted by Miss Dee: Actually, it might help if we had some examples of these racist anti-racists! It would be interesting to know where to find this non-racist world where anti-racists apparently see non-existent racism. Maybe they're worried they'll be out of a job if they don't make up horrid stories about all the nice people out there!
A quick google of the 7 topics I mentionned will reveal them.
http://racerelations.about.com/od/skillsbuildingresourc.../socialconstruct.htm "The American Anthropological Association’s statement on race states: “physical variations in the human species have no meaning except the social ones that humans put on them.”" By this reasonning we should scrap all forensics associated with race and ignore the prevalence of allergies amongst racial groups and other statistics when practicing medicine, so racial variations also have physical and medical "meaning". This error enables racists to point it out and use a fallacy of association to connect it to their own incorrect assertions yet I cannot find a single site by anti-racists which explicitly corrects this error. In his instance they cannot be fighting stealth racist notions since there are none.
quote:
Originally posted by Miss Dee: Interestingly, anti-racist activists have often run into problems when trying to link their concerns with traditional Marxist thought. Have you ever heard of Aime Cesaire, the Martiniquan founder of the negritude movement? He famously left the Communists because the French Communist hierarchy was not willing to see the race problem as distinct from the class problem.
Even today I get the impression that European left wing activists are often disinclined to see race a separate, if related issue.
You're talking about a line of thought another dimension from my own, communists enjoy all inclusive theories whilst I work from the facts up and don't fill in the blanks until I actually know the answer. I base this issue on definable definitions and actual events, thus naturally view class prejudice and racial prejudice as forms of prejudice based on 2 different classifications. So yes they are different problems but I consider this pretty obvious, not really a revelation of any sort, it's ridiculous how communists took decades to come to that conclusion.
zwaraaaa, well done on introducing this topic. I mostly agree with what you say. But why single out anti-racist groups. Surely anti-sexist groups and almost all other "Anti" groups are going to suffer from roughly the same thing? It seems to me that this is just a part of human nature, always looking at a situation or person froma very slim point of view.
Originally posted by Andrew Y: zwaraaaa, well done on introducing this topic. I mostly agree with what you say. But why single out anti-racist groups. Surely anti-sexist groups and almost all other "Anti" groups are going to suffer from roughly the same thing? It seems to me that this is just a part of human nature, always looking at a situation or person froma very slim point of view.
What about people who are anti-anti-groups? Are they exempt from criticism?
Originally posted by Andrew Y: zwaraaaa, well done on introducing this topic. I mostly agree with what you say. But why single out anti-racist groups. Surely anti-sexist groups and almost all other "Anti" groups are going to suffer from roughly the same thing? It seems to me that this is just a part of human nature, always looking at a situation or person froma very slim point of view.
What about people who are anti-anti-groups? Are they exempt from criticism?
Nobody should be exempt from criticism. Why would you think such a thing? As for anti-anti groups, why do people always need groups?
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