Originally posted by kumquat: Judaism is a religion not a race. It's just that being observant you are separated from non Jews.
Until last year I had always thought that my family had escaped the Shoah (Holocaust). I was wrong. One great aunt died in the Warsaw ghetto and other great aunt and her family died in Treblinka. That came as a shock.
Yes judaism is a religion but the jews are also a distinct ethnic group, semites closely reated to the Arabs. I find it curious that when it suits some of them they are an ethnic group one day but merely a religious group the next! Curiously they are the only people who constantly harp on about how they have suffered but all peoples suffered in the war. Millions of ethnic Germans perished during the post war ethnic cleansing carried out in eastern Europe. Millions of German civilians and prisoners of war were starved to death from 1945 onwards but there is no talk of the world commemorating that holocaust or talk of financial compensation!
LOL, compensation given to a country that STARTED a war, that's a good one!
So if someone stole your car you'd be happy to give them compensation if the brakes didn't work and they were involved in an accident?
To add, there was NO German holocaust. The present day and post war population of German proves this beyond any doubt. "that holocaust" never happened. The world commemorating a holocaust that never was, is just ridiculous.
You need to do a little research! I suggest that you start with 2 of James Bacque`s excellent books-`Other Losses` and `Crimes and Mercies`. You should also carry out a little research on the Internet. This is a small start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II
Originally posted by kumquat: Judaism is a religion not a race. It's just that being observant you are separated from non Jews.
Until last year I had always thought that my family had escaped the Shoah (Holocaust). I was wrong. One great aunt died in the Warsaw ghetto and other great aunt and her family died in Treblinka. That came as a shock.
Yes judaism is a religion but the jews are also a distinct ethnic group, semites closely reated to the Arabs. I find it curious that when it suits some of them they are an ethnic group one day but merely a religious group the next! Curiously they are the only people who constantly harp on about how they have suffered but all peoples suffered in the war. Millions of ethnic Germans perished during the post war ethnic cleansing carried out in eastern Europe. Millions of German civilians and prisoners of war were starved to death from 1945 onwards but there is no talk of the world commemorating that holocaust or talk of financial compensation!
LOL, compensation given to a country that STARTED a war, that's a good one!
So if someone stole your car you'd be happy to give them compensation if the brakes didn't work and they were involved in an accident?
So this is an example of you so-called moral superiority? You have no problem at all then with ethnic Germans, Volksdeutschen who have lived for centuries in the eastern lands being expelled and murdered on account of their ethnicity? You are in favour of ethnic cleansing and murdering people-men, women and children whose race or ethnicity is different to your own? It would seem that you are the real racist on this thread, not I! Clearly Nuernberg and all the other show trials was more concerned with VENGEANCE not justice. Thank you for illustrating my point so well!
I know that in a time of war attrocities are commited and certainly (probably unlike you) I recognise that atrocities were commited on both sides and that the Russian troops certainly got their pound of flesh from the Germans.
However, you can't just brush aside the awful Nazi regime and highlight smaller excesses as if to then say, so that makes everyone equal!
The fact is, the Nazi nation did start the war, the fact is the Germans did turn on Stalin's Russia after coming to a pact with one of the world's worst dictators. For the record, I don't see Stalin as any better than Hitler.
The fact is the Nazi nation did murder millions of innocent people. So when you're weighing up the credits and debits, the fact is the German nation owed the world a debt, rather than being owed a debt.
Originally posted by kumquat: Judaism is a religion not a race. It's just that being observant you are separated from non Jews.
Until last year I had always thought that my family had escaped the Shoah (Holocaust). I was wrong. One great aunt died in the Warsaw ghetto and other great aunt and her family died in Treblinka. That came as a shock.
Yes judaism is a religion but the jews are also a distinct ethnic group, semites closely reated to the Arabs. I find it curious that when it suits some of them they are an ethnic group one day but merely a religious group the next! Curiously they are the only people who constantly harp on about how they have suffered but all peoples suffered in the war. Millions of ethnic Germans perished during the post war ethnic cleansing carried out in eastern Europe. Millions of German civilians and prisoners of war were starved to death from 1945 onwards but there is no talk of the world commemorating that holocaust or talk of financial compensation!
LOL, compensation given to a country that STARTED a war, that's a good one!
So if someone stole your car you'd be happy to give them compensation if the brakes didn't work and they were involved in an accident?
So this is an example of you so-called moral superiority? You have no problem at all then with ethnic Germans, Volksdeutschen who have lived for centuries in the eastern lands being expelled and murdered on account of their ethnicity? You are in favour of ethnic cleansing and murdering people-men, women and children whose race or ethnicity is different to your own? It would seem that you are the real racist on this thread, not I! Clearly Nuernberg and all the other show trials was more concerned with VENGEANCE not justice. Thank you for illustrating my point so well!
I know that in a time of war attrocities are committed and certainly (probably unlike you) I recognise that atrocities were committed on both sides and that the Russian troops certainly got their pound of flesh from the Germans.
However, you can't just brush aside the awful Nazi regime and highlight smaller excesses as if to then say, so that makes everyone equal!
The fact is, the Nazi nation did start the war, the fact is the Germans did turn on Stalin's Russia after coming to a pact with one of the world's worst dictators. For the record, I don't see Stalin as any better than Hitler.
The fact is the Nazi nation did murder millions of innocent people. So when you're weighing up the credits and debits, the fact is the German nation owed the world a debt, rather than being owed a debt.
Another point to mention is that the Nazi regime committed atrocities on its own people IN Germany, not just it's enemies in other countries. There is a distinct difference!
Originally posted by kumquat: Judaism is a religion not a race. It's just that being observant you are separated from non Jews.
Until last year I had always thought that my family had escaped the Shoah (Holocaust). I was wrong. One great aunt died in the Warsaw ghetto and other great aunt and her family died in Treblinka. That came as a shock.
Yes judaism is a religion but the jews are also a distinct ethnic group, semites closely reated to the Arabs. I find it curious that when it suits some of them they are an ethnic group one day but merely a religious group the next! Curiously they are the only people who constantly harp on about how they have suffered but all peoples suffered in the war. Millions of ethnic Germans perished during the post war ethnic cleansing carried out in eastern Europe. Millions of German civilians and prisoners of war were starved to death from 1945 onwards but there is no talk of the world commemorating that holocaust or talk of financial compensation!
LOL, compensation given to a country that STARTED a war, that's a good one!
So if someone stole your car you'd be happy to give them compensation if the brakes didn't work and they were involved in an accident?
To add, there was NO German holocaust. The present day and post war population of German proves this beyond any doubt. "that holocaust" never happened. The world commemorating a holocaust that never was, is just ridiculous.
You need to do a little research! I suggest that you start with 2 of James Bacque`s excellent books-`Other Losses` and `Crimes and Mercies`. You should also carry out a little research on the Internet. This is a small start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II
Interesting article - which I read because I keep an open mind on these things - and as I said above, attrocities are committed in times of war.
However, as heartless as it sounds, after WWII the victors made the rules, and for all the faults and wrong decisions by the allies the German nation is still a rich and prosperous nation with a large population and world influence.
As a polish politician recently pointed out, the Polish nation would have considerably more influence within present day Europe if the Nazis had not killed so many of them.
I think it goes without saying that I don't think we'd be able to debate these things if things had been different.
Originally posted by kumquat: Judaism is a religion not a race. It's just that being observant you are separated from non Jews.
Until last year I had always thought that my family had escaped the Shoah (Holocaust). I was wrong. One great aunt died in the Warsaw ghetto and other great aunt and her family died in Treblinka. That came as a shock.
Yes judaism is a religion but the jews are also a distinct ethnic group, semites closely reated to the Arabs. I find it curious that when it suits some of them they are an ethnic group one day but merely a religious group the next! Curiously they are the only people who constantly harp on about how they have suffered but all peoples suffered in the war. Millions of ethnic Germans perished during the post war ethnic cleansing carried out in eastern Europe. Millions of German civilians and prisoners of war were starved to death from 1945 onwards but there is no talk of the world commemorating that holocaust or talk of financial compensation!
LOL, compensation given to a country that STARTED a war, that's a good one!
So if someone stole your car you'd be happy to give them compensation if the brakes didn't work and they were involved in an accident?
So this is an example of you so-called moral superiority? You have no problem at all then with ethnic Germans, Volksdeutschen who have lived for centuries in the eastern lands being expelled and murdered on account of their ethnicity? You are in favour of ethnic cleansing and murdering people-men, women and children whose race or ethnicity is different to your own? It would seem that you are the real racist on this thread, not I! Clearly Nuernberg and all the other show trials was more concerned with VENGEANCE not justice. Thank you for illustrating my point so well!
I know that in a time of war attrocities are commited and certainly (probably unlike you) I recognise that atrocities were commited on both sides and that the Russian troops certainly got their pound of flesh from the Germans.
However, you can't just brush aside the awful Nazi regime and highlight smaller excesses as if to then say, so that makes everyone equal!
The fact is, the Nazi nation did start the war, the fact is the Germans did turn on Stalin's Russia after coming to a pact with one of the world's worst dictators. For the record, I don't see Stalin as any better than Hitler.
The fact is the Nazi nation did murder millions of innocent people. So when you're weighing up the credits and debits, the fact is the German nation owed the world a debt, rather than being owed a debt.
The genuine German holocaust is a fact of history and the numbers who perished runs into millions and all this happened between 1945-1948-AFTER the war. Thus these were not acts of war but acts of GENOCIDE committed in peace time by the allies of `democracy`. Despite the repressive liber dictatorship that currently runs Germany even they take it seriously enough to make it a criminal offence to `deny` the German holocaust. In addition to the deaths which arose from the expulsions of these innocent men, women and children on the grounds that they were of German ancestry millions also perished in POW camps in the western zones. One should therefore considr these as DEATH camps run by the French, British and Americans. All of this is before I take into consideration the deliberate starvation of the German population at the behest of powerful jewish American politicians[Morganthau Plan et al] and the enslavement and deaths of German POWs in Russia. So the so-called `peace loving, humanitarian democratic` west can hardly claim any kind of moral superiority over the Third Reich. As far as who started the war is concerned you probably don`t realise that Britain and France declared war on Germany first not the other way around. Strangely enough like true hypocrites Britain forgot to declare war on Germany`s then current ally the USSR aho was an equal partnet in the invasion and carve up of Poland!
Germany,obviously, was the source of the war, even though they did not declare war on England etc. If you want to watch a film that shows the abuse directed against German civilians I suggest you watch Joy Division (not the band) a very good film.
Originally posted by Bobby S.: Germany,obviously, was the source of the war, even though they did not declare war on England etc. If you want to watch a film that shows the abuse directed against German civilians I suggest you watch Joy Division (not the band) a very good film.
Where do you get your history from, Channel 4? No, it is not `obvious` that Germany was `the source of the war`. To blame the defeated power just because the victor has the power to do so is too easy and convenient but it does not make it correct and right. WWII has its origins in WWI, a continuation of that war and in the unjust Versailles Diktat! Is it any wonder that there was an Adolf Hitler. The country needed him in her darkest hour and He came. I gurantee and predict that within 200 years there will be bronze statues of Hitler erected in Germany when the people finally awaken from their long period of brainwashing and appreciate what He did for them.
Originally posted by Bobby S.: Germany,obviously, was the source of the war, even though they did not declare war on England etc. If you want to watch a film that shows the abuse directed against German civilians I suggest you watch Joy Division (not the band) a very good film.
Where do you get your history from, Channel 4? No, it is not `obvious` that Germany was `the source of the war`. To blame the defeated power just because the victor has the power to do so is too easy and convenient but it does not make it correct and right. WWII has its origins in WWI, a continuation of that war and in the unjust Versailles Diktat! Is it any wonder that there was an Adolf Hitler. The country needed him in her darkest hour and He came. I gurantee and predict that within 200 years there will be bronze statues of Hitler erected in Germany when the people finally awaken from their long period of brainwashing and appreciate what He did for them.
The German people needed an Austrian with part Jewish ancestory to take them to the brink of anhiliation, way to go stormer.
I suggest you watch Come See which is why the German civilians especially the women were treated so savagely mainly by the Red Army.
Not that Hitler cared much for the German people, as towards the end of the war he said they had failed him and were not worthy of survival.
Originally posted by Bobby S.: Germany,obviously, was the source of the war, even though they did not declare war on England etc. If you want to watch a film that shows the abuse directed against German civilians I suggest you watch Joy Division (not the band) a very good film.
Where do you get your history from, Channel 4? No, it is not `obvious` that Germany was `the source of the war`. To blame the defeated power just because the victor has the power to do so is too easy and convenient but it does not make it correct and right. WWII has its origins in WWI, a continuation of that war and in the unjust Versailles Diktat! Is it any wonder that there was an Adolf Hitler. The country needed him in her darkest hour and He came. I gurantee and predict that within 200 years there will be bronze statues of Hitler erected in Germany when the people finally awaken from their long period of brainwashing and appreciate what He did for them.
The German people needed an Austrian with part Jewish ancestory to take them to the brink of anhiliation, way to go stormer.
I suggest you watch Come See which is why the German civilians especially the women were treated so savagely mainly by the Red Army.
Not that Hitler cared much for the German people, as towards the end of the war he said they had failed him and were not worthy of survival.
Hitler was a German and there is no evidence whatsoever that he had any jewish ancestry. Having an ancestor that once worked as a servant in a jewish household does not make one part jewish. This little bit of zionist propaganda was put out by American jews during the war to discredit the Fuehrer and no serious historian gives it house room. Is this the very best you can come up with?
Originally posted by kumquat: Judaism is a religion not a race. It's just that being observant you are separated from non Jews.
Until last year I had always thought that my family had escaped the Shoah (Holocaust). I was wrong. One great aunt died in the Warsaw ghetto and other great aunt and her family died in Treblinka. That came as a shock.
Yes judaism is a religion but the jews are also a distinct ethnic group, semites closely reated to the Arabs. I find it curious that when it suits some of them they are an ethnic group one day but merely a religious group the next! Curiously they are the only people who constantly harp on about how they have suffered but all peoples suffered in the war. Millions of ethnic Germans perished during the post war ethnic cleansing carried out in eastern Europe. Millions of German civilians and prisoners of war were starved to death from 1945 onwards but there is no talk of the world commemorating that holocaust or talk of financial compensation!
LOL, compensation given to a country that STARTED a war, that's a good one!
So if someone stole your car you'd be happy to give them compensation if the brakes didn't work and they were involved in an accident?
So this is an example of you so-called moral superiority? You have no problem at all then with ethnic Germans, Volksdeutschen who have lived for centuries in the eastern lands being expelled and murdered on account of their ethnicity? You are in favour of ethnic cleansing and murdering people-men, women and children whose race or ethnicity is different to your own? It would seem that you are the real racist on this thread, not I! Clearly Nuernberg and all the other show trials was more concerned with VENGEANCE not justice. Thank you for illustrating my point so well!
I know that in a time of war attrocities are committed and certainly (probably unlike you) I recognise that atrocities were committed on both sides and that the Russian troops certainly got their pound of flesh from the Germans.
However, you can't just brush aside the awful Nazi regime and highlight smaller excesses as if to then say, so that makes everyone equal!
The fact is, the Nazi nation did start the war, the fact is the Germans did turn on Stalin's Russia after coming to a pact with one of the world's worst dictators. For the record, I don't see Stalin as any better than Hitler.
The fact is the Nazi nation did murder millions of innocent people. So when you're weighing up the credits and debits, the fact is the German nation owed the world a debt, rather than being owed a debt.
Another point to mention is that the Nazi regime committed atrocities on its own people IN Germany, not just it's enemies in other countries. There is a distinct difference!
Originally posted by kumquat: Judaism is a religion not a race. It's just that being observant you are separated from non Jews.
Until last year I had always thought that my family had escaped the Shoah (Holocaust). I was wrong. One great aunt died in the Warsaw ghetto and other great aunt and her family died in Treblinka. That came as a shock.
Yes judaism is a religion but the jews are also a distinct ethnic group, semites closely reated to the Arabs. I find it curious that when it suits some of them they are an ethnic group one day but merely a religious group the next! Curiously they are the only people who constantly harp on about how they have suffered but all peoples suffered in the war. Millions of ethnic Germans perished during the post war ethnic cleansing carried out in eastern Europe. Millions of German civilians and prisoners of war were starved to death from 1945 onwards but there is no talk of the world commemorating that holocaust or talk of financial compensation!
LOL, compensation given to a country that STARTED a war, that's a good one!
So if someone stole your car you'd be happy to give them compensation if the brakes didn't work and they were involved in an accident?
To add, there was NO German holocaust. The present day and post war population of German proves this beyond any doubt. "that holocaust" never happened. The world commemorating a holocaust that never was, is just ridiculous.
You need to do a little research! I suggest that you start with 2 of James Bacque`s excellent books-`Other Losses` and `Crimes and Mercies`. You should also carry out a little research on the Internet. This is a small start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II
Interesting article - which I read because I keep an open mind on these things - and as I said above, attrocities are committed in times of war.
However, as heartless as it sounds, after WWII the victors made the rules, and for all the faults and wrong decisions by the allies the German nation is still a rich and prosperous nation with a large population and world influence.
As a polish politician recently pointed out, the Polish nation would have considerably more influence within present day Europe if the Nazis had not killed so many of them.
I think it goes without saying that I don't think we'd be able to debate these things if things had been different.
You are not addressing the genocide committed against the German people. Interstingly people like you would have us commemorate the jewish `holocaust` but ignore the suffering of other peoples as if the jews were somehow of greater importance.[As they themselves still think].
Originally posted by Bobby S.: Germany,obviously, was the source of the war, even though they did not declare war on England etc. If you want to watch a film that shows the abuse directed against German civilians I suggest you watch Joy Division (not the band) a very good film.
Where do you get your history from, Channel 4? No, it is not `obvious` that Germany was `the source of the war`. To blame the defeated power just because the victor has the power to do so is too easy and convenient but it does not make it correct and right. WWII has its origins in WWI, a continuation of that war and in the unjust Versailles Diktat! Is it any wonder that there was an Adolf Hitler. The country needed him in her darkest hour and He came. I gurantee and predict that within 200 years there will be bronze statues of Hitler erected in Germany when the people finally awaken from their long period of brainwashing and appreciate what He did for them.
The German people needed an Austrian with part Jewish ancestory to take them to the brink of anhiliation, way to go stormer.
I suggest you watch Come See which is why the German civilians especially the women were treated so savagely mainly by the Red Army.
Not that Hitler cared much for the German people, as towards the end of the war he said they had failed him and were not worthy of survival.
Hitler was a German and there is no evidence whatsoever that he had any jewish ancestry. Having an ancestor that once worked as a servant in a jewish household does not make one part jewish. This little bit of zionist propaganda was put out by American jews during the war to discredit the Fuehrer and no serious historian gives it house room. Is this the very best you can come up with?
Ah I see the rest of my post you agree with, the best I can come up with, with regards to what?
Can I suggest if you worship the man, that you learn to spell his title correctly.
Originally posted by kumquat: Judaism is a religion not a race. It's just that being observant you are separated from non Jews.
Until last year I had always thought that my family had escaped the Shoah (Holocaust). I was wrong. One great aunt died in the Warsaw ghetto and other great aunt and her family died in Treblinka. That came as a shock.
Yes judaism is a religion but the jews are also a distinct ethnic group, semites closely reated to the Arabs. I find it curious that when it suits some of them they are an ethnic group one day but merely a religious group the next! Curiously they are the only people who constantly harp on about how they have suffered but all peoples suffered in the war. Millions of ethnic Germans perished during the post war ethnic cleansing carried out in eastern Europe. Millions of German civilians and prisoners of war were starved to death from 1945 onwards but there is no talk of the world commemorating that holocaust or talk of financial compensation!
LOL, compensation given to a country that STARTED a war, that's a good one!
So if someone stole your car you'd be happy to give them compensation if the brakes didn't work and they were involved in an accident?
So this is an example of you so-called moral superiority? You have no problem at all then with ethnic Germans, Volksdeutschen who have lived for centuries in the eastern lands being expelled and murdered on account of their ethnicity? You are in favour of ethnic cleansing and murdering people-men, women and children whose race or ethnicity is different to your own? It would seem that you are the real racist on this thread, not I! Clearly Nuernberg and all the other show trials was more concerned with VENGEANCE not justice. Thank you for illustrating my point so well!
I know that in a time of war attrocities are committed and certainly (probably unlike you) I recognise that atrocities were committed on both sides and that the Russian troops certainly got their pound of flesh from the Germans.
However, you can't just brush aside the awful Nazi regime and highlight smaller excesses as if to then say, so that makes everyone equal!
The fact is, the Nazi nation did start the war, the fact is the Germans did turn on Stalin's Russia after coming to a pact with one of the world's worst dictators. For the record, I don't see Stalin as any better than Hitler.
The fact is the Nazi nation did murder millions of innocent people. So when you're weighing up the credits and debits, the fact is the German nation owed the world a debt, rather than being owed a debt.
Another point to mention is that the Nazi regime committed atrocities on its own people IN Germany, not just it's enemies in other countries. There is a distinct difference!
And what `atrocities` were these?
Are you for real?
As we're trading Wikipedia articles, and since you clearly think Wikepedia is a reliable and credible source, then try these
I bet you can't answer this without using the words "Zionist" and "Conspiracy".
You can guarantee that in 200 years time they'll be bronze statues of Hitler in Germany. LOL, Why not gold statues? Really? In 200 years time I can make a similar guarantee that we'll all be ruled by the Imperial Klingon Empire.
How did Hitler help the working classes of Hamburg, Berlin etc? He got millions of them killed in his madcap desire for lebensraum. Who is stabbing who in the back now?
Maybe it's worth stating here that Hitler's attempt at ethnic and ideological cleansing involved people other than Jews.
Germans of African ancestry were targetted (remember that Germany had a colonial presence in Africa at one time). Gypsies/Roma people, who may have been German for generations, were not spared. The Nazis also attacked certain religious and political groups and individuals who refused to fit in with their ideology, even if they were otherwise 'good' Germans.
If you are ever in Brno in the Czech Republic I would recommend a visit to the Roma Museusm, which talks about the Roma during the Third Reich. I can also praise an exhibition I once saw at the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC. The exhibition was about 'medical' experimentation in the Nazi context. Many Germans with disabilities or none at all were damaged or killed as a result of these experiments.
Considering all of this in connection with the extermination of German Jews, you could say that Hitler was indeed waging a war against 'his own' people. He must've got round this problem by defining quite carefully who counted as a 'true' German and who didn't.
Originally posted by Miss Dee: Maybe it's worth stating here that Hitler's attempt at ethnic and ideological cleansing involved people other than Jews.
Germans of African ancestry were targetted (remember that Germany had a colonial presence in Africa at one time). Gypsies/Roma people, who may have been German for generations, were not spared. The Nazis also attacked certain religious and political groups and individuals who refused to fit in with their ideology, even if they were otherwise 'good' Germans.
If you are ever in Brno in the Czech Republic I would recommend a visit to the Roma Museusm, which talks about the Roma during the Third Reich. I can also praise an exhibition I once saw at the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC. The exhibition was about 'medical' experimentation in the Nazi context. Many Germans with disabilities or none at all were damaged or killed as a result of these experiments.
Considering all of this in connection with the extermination of German Jews, you could say that Hitler was indeed waging a war against 'his own' people. He must've got round this problem by defining quite carefully who counted as a 'true' German and who didn't.
How can any authentic `German` have African ancestry?
