quote:

Originally posted by Curls:
Perhaps he doesn't feel like conforming in that way?

Yeah, I concur. But all one is saying, purists heads don't wanna see no b-boy MC rhyming over no 200m/h beats or some out there experimental stuff that don't sound right. Saul Williams is a Hip-Hop MC. He knows and said that himself. Jez, you need to seek out the dope Hip-hop records he had done in the past, to truely understand where one is coming from

He releases what he has created, and what he wants to create so i don't see why he should release a one genre album if he doesn't feel that way inclined. Artists that do that are boring to listen to, the beauty of being a good musician is evolving, not conforming.
Plus i beg to differ that he is solely a Hip-Hop MC, he is a poet first and foremost.

See my above comments. Er, KRS-ONE is still kicking the raw rugged hip-hop ill stuff till this day, I dare you to tell him or real heads that he is boring. Yes, I know SW is a poet as well. But when the brother first came out, he strongly maintained that not because he does poetry, hip-hop heads might think he's not an MCf foremost. He declared he is an MC first(he later list all the hip-hop gods that influence him) and that poetry is an added bonus. BTW, I love his poetry as well.

Nine inch nails aren't rock, they are Industrial. There is a difference, a BIG one actually.

At the point of being clueless here, could you enlighten I, on what this industrial stuff means?

I don't see music in colour terms, sorry.

Er, its not about seeing music in colour. I was merely stating a fact about music of Black origin. Surely, if we were to ask who invented opera music, I'm sure the Intalians will be the answer.

I see music in their distinct genres but labelling several genres "black" when they're clearly several different ones (Jazz, blues, Ragga, Reggae, Soca etc etc etc etc) is just as bad as labelling them all "Urban".

All the above musical genres you just mentioned is/of/invented by Black people/Black origin and there's nothing sinister or racist to state that fact. Black musical genres, compared to others cultures, are more accepting and universal. If they weren't, then it would be a problem. But being Jah kids, we don't think like that, hence our musical genres is embrace. love and performed by everyone. Now, there's Irish, indian, latin and all sorts of other cultural music and its accepted as such and apprciated by diverse racial groups and nobody bat an eyelid about. So why is it, certain corporate feel the need to deminish/ take or destroy Black musical genres? Most non-Blacks I know or met, have no problem admiting that they enjoy listening/ performing BLack music, so this idea of yours about calling Music of Black origin for what it clearly is, as bad is something out of the ordinary. Surely, you not saying Kanye King of the Mobo(I think the mobo is rubbish due to the artists they honour)

Music shouldn't have conforming pidgeon holes like that, serves no purpose other than being deliberately divisive.

quote:

Originally posted by Curls:
To be pedantic, most modern genres are music of black origin.

No -------- sherlock!!!

How do you know what Saul Williams CD's i own? Thats a big assumption to make.

I don't know if you own any of his previous work, I will admit to that as the God ain't a egostical person who can't acknowledge their fault when they are wrong.

Industrial is hybrid genre, it's very electronic and highly influenced by many dance genres, with the scenes often merging.
Thats why it's not rock music, rock itself is a vague term anyway.

Thanks 4 setting me straight on that one. Well, that the stuff mad heads have heard SW on of late and most of it, we ain't feeling. However, I do feel one song where SW killed it on this Dance like track that was runing on 300 miles per minutes

If you had read my posts properly you will see that i am not disputing the different genres in music, rather tired of hearing them refered to in terms of colour alone.

Well, you might be tire of hearing the source from which the musical genre you llike hail from, but its is, what it is. I mean, if people who invent certain music said they didn't one other races doing their musical inventions, then there's is a cause for alarm as that will be racist. However, I have not heard of such things from Jah kids (can't speak for other races, I'm afraid). So in a nutcell, a musical genre can come from a certain source, but as long as it universal and appeciated, performed and listened too by others and they in turn accept who the originators of the genre is, I don't see what problem there is, by accepting where certain musical genres hail from.

I'm a musician after all,

And this is not the first time you have told me this. Nontheless, regardless of whether you are an artist or not, that doesn't hold weight in this debate. For all you know, his majesty could be an artist as well (and that too doesn't mean nothing). What's important here is whether the views you & me post on this topic is valid or NOT!

i study and have studied the subject enough to know that the only people seeing genres in terms of colour are being deliberately divisive.

Er, neither I, Kanye King or any Black person for that matter are being deliberately divisive by highlighting the fact that certain s in the so-called entertainment industry are destroying Black music via their agenda to water it down, trying to erase the source from which it came by re-brandinf it (Urban ) and suppressing the real version of it from being heard. Also, we are not being divisive by saying what we think about the music we created. we are not divisive because alot of non-Black races perform and listen to Black music, we have not said at any point that they shouldn't. Others cultures and races have their own musical inventions, no one berate they for wanting to see it being kept alive or opposing some vicious machine attempts to rename what they created and take it from them. Besides, I dare you to prove too me that me or Black people are divisive when they speak about their musical genres when the evidence shows that, we are the MOST forgiving and welcoming race going when its comes to accepting others into our music genres and culture.

Saul Williams is an artist, he is entitled to display his art in whatever way he would like.

Yes he certainly does and I am entitled to say that the brother no longer rep Hip-Hop music, cause that a FACT and I am entitled to say there's no such thing as Urban music, but rather BLACK MUSIC as that a FACT, regardless of whether you find it offensive or hurtful.

Nobody had a problem saying things like Indian Bangha music or Irish folk songs, so why does the idea of Black music distress you?

Continue to rant, i know you will.......

quote:

Originally posted by The infamous LA:
You provoked the God into discussing my point indeptly...

quote:

Originally posted by Asarualim:

quote:

Originally posted by The infamous LA:
You provoked the God into discussing my point indeptly...

Now, did you mean ineptly or indepthly (which isn't actually a word)? I'll guess at ineptly as that makes more sense in the context of the rest of your posts.

quote:

Originally posted by Curls:
Well i can assure you i own his previous works and some of his books.

That's nice 2 know as the brother is an intellectual giant in the eyes of mad headz......just like the GZA/GENIUS, who is a bigger intelliectual giant in the field of the pen, paper and mics

As for the rest of your post. I like what i like, Saul Williams may not represent Hip-Hop in your eyes, but have you ever considered that he is perhaps not interested in doing so?

Well, commercial appeal and mainstream mass appeal success plus financial gains often played a part in the minds of these brothers/sisters like SW when they decided not to rep the music of their ancestors in its purest form any more. I should know, I have seen/studied others far worst than SW. Still, I respect SW as he hadn't gave any fleasmy excuses as to why he stopped repping the raw sound of hip-hop.

I am glad he is not constrained by what other people think in this world, and i am glad he is indulging in whatever music his soul feels like making.

Yes, he had the right to stray from what he first started out doing, just like I have the right to say that he no longer makes Hip-HOp music as we know it. There's no malice involve here, just mere facts being stated. Now, if I was talking about these 3rd rate no-talent wack artists who make a mockery of our music, then you could tell in my words posted that I really detest the ------------ with a y'all should get hang NYOIL style of sentiments being expressed by the god .

To be honest i'm not sure where you get the idea that i think calling something "black music" is distressing, however the pedance in me thinks that if you want to call something "black" purely because more black people listen to it then you're incorrect.
Since most modern genres directly pull their roots from African music i personally feel that using that label is simply far too vague.

Actually, I say BLack music because it invented/created by Black people, nothing to do with how many Jah kids listen too it. Seriously, your some what reluntant to accept that certain music genre was invented/created by Black people (by that I mean All Blacks, whereever they are in the world) is a bit worrying and somewhat gone with the wind....I might add.

Sensing hostility from me? You wish sweetheart, i don't have that kinda connection to people on the internet.

quote:

Originally posted by The infamous LA:

quote:

Originally posted by Asarualim:

quote:

Originally posted by The infamous LA:
You provoked the God into discussing my point indeptly...

Now, did you mean ineptly or indepthly (which isn't actually a word)? I'll guess at ineptly as that makes more sense in the context of the rest of your posts.

Fire Burn!

quote:

Originally posted by The infamous LA:

quote:

Originally posted by Curls:
Well i can assure you i own his previous works and some of his books.

That's nice 2 know as the brother is an intellectual giant in the eyes of mad headz......just like the GZA/GENIUS, who is a bigger intelliectual giant in the field of the pen, paper and mics

As for the rest of your post. I like what i like, Saul Williams may not represent Hip-Hop in your eyes, but have you ever considered that he is perhaps not interested in doing so?

Well, commercial appeal and mainstream mass appeal success plus financial gains often played a part in the minds of these brothers/sisters like SW when they decided not to rep the music of their ancestors in its purest form any more. I should know, I have seen/studied others far worst than SW. Still, I respect SW as he hadn't gave any fleasmy excuses as to why he stopped repping the raw sound of hip-hop.

I am glad he is not constrained by what other people think in this world, and i am glad he is indulging in whatever music his soul feels like making.

Yes, he had the right to stray from what he first started out doing, just like I have the right to say that he no longer makes Hip-HOp music as we know it. There's no malice involve here, just mere facts being stated. Now, if I was talking about these 3rd rate no-talent wack artists who make a mockery of our music, then you could tell in my words posted that I really detest the ------------ with a y'all should get hang NYOIL style of sentiments being expressed by the god .

To be honest i'm not sure where you get the idea that i think calling something "black music" is distressing, however the pedance in me thinks that if you want to call something "black" purely because more black people listen to it then you're incorrect.
Since most modern genres directly pull their roots from African music i personally feel that using that label is simply far too vague.

Actually, I say BLack music because it invented/created by Black people, nothing to do with how many Jah kids listen too it. Seriously, your some what reluntant to accept that certain music genre was invented/created by Black people (by that I mean All Blacks, whereever they are in the world) is a bit worrying and somewhat gone with the wind....I might add.

Sensing hostility from me? You wish sweetheart, i don't have that kinda connection to people on the internet.

Well, you could have fooled me hun

quote:

Originally posted by Curls:
D

Now you are being funny hun, I never claim importance,I am above & beyond that. Do I look like I got a Napoleon complex to seek importance? Come on now

quote:

Originally posted by Curls:

Did you ever read his open letter to Oprah?

Yes hun, the god already peep that when it first appeared ages ago .

Now, do you wanna debate the contents of the said letter or what?

Because as one can recall, I have echoed those thoughts on here a millions times before and so have other Jah kids!

quote:

Originally posted by The infamous LA:
Now you are being funny hun, I never claim importance,I am above & beyond that. Do I look like I got a Napoleon complex to seek importance? Come on now