If Channel 4 wishes to retain my household's viewership, it will need to do so without defacing my picture with DOGs, "ALL NEW", "SECOND CHANCE", NEXT crap, and other insulting and unnecessary captions for idiots.

Adverts don't bother me.

A clean picture, is the assurance to Channel 4 that it will retain our custom.

A substandard picture, is the the assurance to Channel 4 that it will lose our custom.

(Thus far, C4 have chosen not to supply me with Six Feet Under S5, The West Wing S5 & S6, the entire Sopranos re-run, and the rerun of the Michael Moore documentaries. They have also chosen to forefeit my FilmFour revenue since I am boycotting Sky. I'll watch a non-disfigured source instead, if I chose so.)

Individual actions gradually become individual habits. Once the laptop was a visitor to one's lounge. Then came permanent cables. Now one has a DIVX / XVID compatible DVD Recorder/Player. The market now sells DIVX / XVID players because more and more people are switching to "broadband" sourced television, and the hours of viewing per user is starting to accumulate.

(There are now entire series that one has viewed by "broadband" TV, and the trend line is there).

Channel 4's market is slipping.

They can continue the decline toward mediocrity and adopt the "T4" trash style of presentation, or they can carry on distinguishing themselves as a proper TV network where content is king, and both programmes and viewers are treated with respect and dignity.

The morale of the story for Channel 4 is, "when you are walking on egg shells, don't hop".

Choice of future forefeitures is up to them.

I would love to watch more things on TV, which is why I have chosen to watch Curb Your Enthusiasm at the rate of one a week (how I like it) on More4.

I could easily download it and not see a dull image of a 4 though... Some people will, and at a time when the terrestrial networks are scrambling for viewers, they shouldn't be turning one single person away.

No one is going to deliberatley not watch more4 because it doesn't have a DOG, but a lot of people will switch off because it does.

quote:

Originally posted by raymond904:
you're a loser if you put up with shoddy presentation from more4 when you can easily get whatever you want with the best channel presentation of all.. i.e none.

Then you presented me with a case that didn't fit these conditions.

Since when has it been agaisnt the law to download TV shows, fast forward through adverts or copy a music CD?

At present, not one of those actions is against the law.

Since when has it been against the law to download TV shows?

See the following:

US Code, Title 17, Chapter 5, Section 506, subsection a
US Code, Title 17, Chapter 1, Section 101
Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 (c. 48), Chapter II, 17(2)

Has anyone told you this is Britain?

I repeat, it isn't against THE LAW to download a TV show, or copy a tape/cd.

I'd like ot just agree to disagree because otherwise this will go on forever.

Yes, I know this is Britain, and the British Government signed into law the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act in 1988 in Westminster.

You're infringing US, UK and international copyright law when you download a TV show from the States. I cited the two USC references since you're illegally downloading US-produced content, and you're nominally liable under such legislation.

You're specifically permitted to make backup copies of your own legally purchased or obtained media, such as CDs, but you are specifically enjoined from downloading television shows where the copyright holder has not given explicit rights to do so.

Apple had to do a deal with ABC to be allowed to offer a limited set of episodes of a limited set of shows to be made available for purchase. None of the studios have done deals with any of the torrent sites you may be using to download episodes, none of them.

This isn't a situation where you can agree to disagree, it's clear cut statutory copyright law - you cannot copy something to which you have not been given licence to do so. This is simple copyright law 101, and the digital age doesn't disencumber such legislation becuase you feel like it. You would be equally sueable if you had taped a show off air using a video recorder, PVR, DVD recorder or whatever, then rebroadcast it with a local UHF transmitter. You'd also be liable for prosecution under the Wireless Telegraphy Act of 1949, but that's another matter

quote:

Originally posted by neuro:
None of the studios have done deals with any of the torrent sites you may be using to download episodes, none of them.

FWIW, I worked for an ISP back in January and one of my colleagues used BitTorrent on his work machine (dumb, huh!?!) to download several hundred TV shows. Due to the high network traffic to his machine and a complaint from a major studio he was caught & fined £3,000.

Well I was told it was the uploaders that were breaking copyright law not the downloaders.

If you had taped something off of TV and a friend asked you for a copy you'd tell them you can't because it would be breaking the law?

hahaha

Yup, that's illegal too, but that kind of activity isn't really noticed as it's hard to police. Finding people who are downloading infringing material by bittorrent is easier to do than finding people who are swapping video tapes with each other.

Whoever told you it's only the uploaders who are breaking the law was wrong. Oh, and when you're using bittorrent, you're invariably uploading yourself too - tis the nature of the technology. So you're just as liable as those responsible for the original rip and upload in the first place.

Ha ha ha.

Well they're not going to prosecute millions of people are they? Bit torrent is one of the most downloaded softwares.

quote:

Originally posted by raymond904:
Well they're not going to prosecute millions of people are they? Bit torrent is one of the most downloaded softwares.

Depends upon whether your IP addy comes up on the logs of the people they catch/prosecute.

And unless you're using software to block well-known IPs of TV/movie studios, etc, then you will show up in their records at some point. You will, no question.

I spent 50 minutes downloading an episode of the new version of Battlestar Galactica (the third or fourth one of season one I think) which I'd accidentally deleted from my Sky+ box, and I'd missed the Sky Mix repeat. Literally just 50 minutes - I downloaded it, and the minute it was done, I closed down the BitTorrent client. I watched the episode then deleted the file. A week later, I had an abuse report routed through to me from the IP protection company NBC Universal were using to warn people with.

So the more shows you download, the more risk you present yourself with.

Then why are all these torrent sites filled with thousands and thousands of downloaders and pardon me for not noticing anywhere at all that makes it clear downloading TV shows is illegal.

If they were really concerned about it wouldn't they have billboard and TV advertising?

No one seems to know and personally it's the only reason I got broadband. For what else on the internet would I need 4MB?

quote:

Originally posted by raymond904:
For what else on the internet would I need 4MB?

For newsgroups? There are at least a hundred newsgroups dedicated to posting TV shows and films. Alas, they are not as well organised as BitTorrent for searching but, if you signed up to a decent independent news server you would get more privacy.

I don't know what a newsgroup is, but why is it ok to download a TV show from there but not from bittorent?

quote:

Originally posted by raymond904:
I don't know what a newsgroup is, but why is it ok to download a TV show from there but not from bittorent?

I didn't say it was Ok, but you are a damn sight less likely to be "caught".

OK, shouldn't someone warn those that are downlaoding and seeding torrents then?

Why don't the broadband companies tell you before you buy?

quote:

Originally posted by raymond904:


Why don't the broadband companies tell you before you buy?

For the same reason a car dealer won't tell you to drive your car at 100mph, perhaps?

There is signs on the road to tell u what you should be driving at and you sit a test before you can drive.

Name any similarities with broadband?

quote:

Originally posted by raymond904:
There is signs on the road to tell u what you should be driving at and you sit a test before you can drive.

Name any similarities with broadband?

For broadband "road" signs read "Acceptable Use Policy" ... for instance. This is taken from Wanadoos broadband T&C's

. Your use of the Wanadoo Service
1.2 You may use the Wanadoo Service only for lawful purposes. You may not use, and shall take all reasonable steps to ensure that no other person uses, the Wanadoo Service:
1.2.1 in a way that does not comply with the terms of any laws applicable to you or that is in any way unlawful or fraudulent or has any unlawful or fraudulent purpose or effect;
1.2.2 to send, knowingly receive, upload, download, use or re-use any material which is abusive, indecent, defamatory, obscene or menacing, or in breach of any copyright, confidence, privacy or any other rights;
1.2.3 to spam or send or procure the sending of any unsolicited advertising or promotional material;

etc, etc

Yeah which takes us back round again to how is the ordinary person going to know that downloading TV shows is "against copyright".

I just asked my flatmate what he thinks and his reply was "but it's free on TV anyway". Clearly people don't realise advertising as the way we pay for programmes.

All I'm saying is it seems to be being swept under the rug. If the TV companies were taking it seriously they would advertise the fact that there could be consequences, but as far as I can see it is pretty much ignored.