Being fat is not just about overeating. It can also be genetic. With the logic of taxing fat people, the government should also tax people in races that have race-specific diseases, In the 70s AIDS was most common amongst gay men etc.
Originally posted by A-D: Being fat is not just about overeating. It can also be genetic.
I disagree with you there. Your genes can make you genetically predisposed to having a metabolism which needs to be controled very careful by diet, but the bottomline is that the only cause of obesity is eating more food than your body requires.
Simple physiology says if you intake more food than your body actually requires then you will gain weight. If you consume less than your body requires then you will lose weight.
No-one needs to be obese providing they control what they eat, and match it with reasonable exercise.
I don't mean 5 times a week in the gym with a personal trainer, I mean simply things such as walking a mile every day.
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With the logic of taxing fat people, the government should also tax people in races that have race-specific diseases, In the 70s AIDS was most common amongst gay men etc.
This is a bad idea.
I also disagree with this assessment. People 'catch' AIDS through unprotected sex, sharing needles etc etc. People don't 'catch' obesity.
Furthermore race specific diseases such as sickle-cell anemia are true genetic traits which cannot be avoided. While you might have a genetic make-up which make it hard to control your weight only *you* decided what goes into your mouth and hence ultimately what your weight is.
Someone on a TV debate show once said "you never saw a fat person in a concentration camp" - slightly unfeeling comment, but it stands up as a solid arguement.
The problem is if you tax people for being fat (because it's self inflicted in theory), then should you also tax everyone who... smokes drinks alcohol takes illegal drugs uses tanning salons or gets sunburnt eats a poor diet (regardless of their weight) takes part in potentially dangerous sports has unprotected sex
I think it would be more fair to increase tax on unhealthy products (e.g. high calorie high fat ready meals) and reduce it on healthy products (e.g. fresh fruit and veg). This might encourage people to live more healthy lifestyles without stigmatising people.
Yes its a genetic predisposition to lower metabolism and therefore increased weight gain but in this day and age in today's society to suggest that being overweight is a 'decision' (which is what you're suggesting - correct me if I'm wrong) is not only unfair but is also unrealistic when taking into account the circumstances of the individual. For instance, some people who appear skinny and healthy are genetically predisposed to depositing abnormally high levels of cholesterol in their vessels. They're going to need surgery in their mid40s; Should we tax them too?
Yes some people just don't take care of themselves, but hey, its a free country and to punish people for their lifestyles suggests a police state.
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Someone on a TV debate show once said "you never saw a fat person in a concentration camp" - slightly unfeeling comment, but it stands up as a solid arguement.
You never saw a happy person in a concentration camp either.
Yes some people just don't take care of themselves, but hey, its a free country and to punish people for their lifestyles suggests a police state.
Plus either way, when you compare the price of a pizza to that of a bunch of bananas, I'd say fat is already being taxed!
Originally posted by welfarist: The problem is if you tax people for being fat (because it's self inflicted in theory), then should you also tax everyone who... smokes drinks alcohol takes illegal drugs
People who smoke and drink are already grossly over taxed. (ie the duty on tobacco and alcohol). Fatty foods are not taxed.
Many illegal drugs are not harmful (compared to smoking or drinking), and to some extent I think they could legalise certain drugs, purify them and tax them).
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I think it would be more fair to increase tax on unhealthy products
I totally agree, and it's the only real solution here. If McDonalds wasn't a cheap option then fewer people would eat there.
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its a free country and to punish people for their lifestyles suggests a police state.
Precedent has been set.
If I choose to be an unemployed waster on benefits then I'm free from paying any taxes and get lots of things for free.
If I work hard and get myself a job I'm giving the Government £40 of every £100 I make.
I'm being punished for my lifestyle.
I do believe the solution is to tax high fat foods, and perhaps go further to eliminate VAT on exercise equipment and sports shoes, or even further to reward people who walk to work every day.
Tax the Fat!! I think Giles Coren should grow up. The numerous factors that contribute to persons lifestyle. Including environment,education and primarily income. He may have the ability to pay for good organic food in fact good food full stop, but many people don't. When your options are significantly narrowed by quantity not quality.What do you expect. He said this morning on the "Today Program" that britian didn't have problems with obesity in the past. Well Duh!! It doesn't take a genius to realise that change in people's occupations, mode of transport and the fact the more nurition in a kelloggs cereal box than there is in the cereal then what do you expect. He chatting a load of B*ll"x. If he was really serious about addressing this problem then why is school meal rubbish and sport facilites are not free for everyone.
I think it will take more than taxing unhealthy foods alone. How about also…
Banning advertising of unhealthy foods Improving school dinners, as well as those provided in other establishments Teaching kids about good nutrition in school Making exercise more accessible – trainers, gym and sports club membership, sports bras etc are all expensive Making people aware that they are responsible for their own actions…. None of this “I’m suing McDonalds for making me fat/ Marlboro for giving me lung cancer etc. Get places like McDonalds to scrap “supersize” meals and provide healthy alternatives Enforce clear labelling on all products. Like cigarette packets saying smoking causes fatal lung cancer, how about “this product in high in fat and may increase cholesterol” or “only to be enjoyed in moderation”
Eating more calories than you burn off through exercise = weight gain
exclude the people with medical conditions, and just focus on the greedy people, who eat more food than they need.
I have a heart condition, im only 24 i have lived a healthy active lifestyle, i went to the gym 3 times a week, read health magazines, i spent years looking after my body, ran mini marathons and cross country etc.
when i needed treatment i had to wait over 4 months until i could see a cardiologist, over the many trips, the majority of people in the waiting to see him were obese.
It took me one year to be diagnosed with my condition because i was placed behind people who hadnt looked after their bodies.
i believe people should be taxed on body fat percentage, when i went to the gym my BMI was about 35 but i had around 15% bodyfat
I'm sorry, a few of you have raised good arguements, and I have to say I do agree with a few of you there.
However I just have to write something here.
A lot of people are 'greedy' a lot of people don't care about themselves... True...
But what people just do NOT realise, and obviously do not wish to accept, is that for many people, overeating is an illness. I use the word illness quite loosely there. But what I am saying is that for a large percentage of people it is a mental illness.
Ok, now I know that many of you are probably going to start ranting on now, and more than likely be rude about this... Fine, go ahead.
Anorexia Nervosa, Bullemia, both very serious, life threatening EATING DISORDERS!
It is a FACT that obesity is an EATING DISORDER.
The problem is, that so many people out there are just simply ignorant. They do not wish to even look into that as a possibility.
In regards to Giles Coren and his discussion, I can understand (to some extent) what he is trying to say. But its the way he is saying it, the references he makes to people who are obese, its quite frankly disgusting. I will be honest with you, that he actually reduced me to tears. His manner of adressing people who are overweight is disgraceful, its discriminatory and its narrow minded. I personally see it as bullying.
And yes, your all probably dying to know whether I am overweight or not.... Yes I am, but before you start to pass comment on what i have just said, re read it... I have made a reasonable and mature arguement in my opinion.
I am in the process of 'doing something about it' which is causing more mental distress than I ever would have imagined. Seeing a psychiatrist, attempting to get to the root of the problem, before tackling it.
I could probably write all night as this has upset me considerably; however I will stop now...
But my final comment here is this - My feelings towards this is that Society is a massive contributing factor, the bullying that many people have to endure is just making the whole situation worse.
And finally to cover myself here, I KNOW that what i have said does NOT relate to everyone. There are many who just eat because they want to, thats their choice. But all i am saying is that there are a lot of people who are in emotional termoil because of the way society treats them. And these kinds of programmes do not do anything to help the situation.
Watched a hateful rant against fat people last night.Under the guise of saving obese peoples lives and the country and slim people money Giles Coren let rip his bile against the"super-whoppers".If like me you think the tv program was contemptible you should read his odious essay in the daily mail(May 27th). Obviously fat people offend giles sense of the aesthete.
This is a dumb idea thought up by a moron who just wants to further his own career by offending people. Hes a critic and he isnt afraid to offend people at all because hes had plenty of practice. I just dont see why one of the more fortunate people in life should be judging people for an illness which affects mostly the poor.
I watched his program and there is not a single comment he made that couldnt be challenged. His whole argument was biased and blinkered to suit his own agenda.
The most important point to challenge would be the £3.5bil he reacons fat people cost the country. Sure it sounds a lot but its just a small number compared to the tax we allready pay. He didnt give any figures on how much each individual fat person costs us over a lifetime or how much a "perfect person" would cost in tax for comparison?? lets just say pensions for healthy people that live longer dont come cheap. Maybe we should tax old people for costing us too much money. Tax healthy people because they are dangerously more likely to get too old!!!!
I will leave it at that.. theres way too much to say on this topic.
oh wait a new tax idea... Tax an Ass - for people like Giles Coren who go around depressing people endangering their health.
MANY MANY illnesses are self inflicted... But again people seem to just put blinkers on when it comes to thinking about things like that!
Nobody plans to be in these situation... And NOBODY is invincible from it! Just think about what it would be like if the shoe was on the other foot! No matter how much you dislike it, you could one day be in this situation. Even if you think its impossible!
Why should healthy people pay for the health treatment of people who caused their own illness?
Because we live in a society that's why. We pay to take care of prisoners. We contribute to drug addiction help programs.
Old age is classed as an illness. Healthy living is arguably a cause of old age. So how do you realy argue to tax obese people but not the elderly?
The circumstances of obese individuals are diverse. People who genuinely find it almost impossible to loose weight, mothers who gained weight during pregnancy and have since had trouble loosing it. Society needs to strive to cater for all. We can't just 'cull' the people that hold us back in anyway. That is primitive.
All effort should be put towards helping obese people help themselves. The concept of taxing them paints a depressing picture of the future of society.
I watched this programme last night and found myself cringing during bits of it. Some of ideas in the marketing meeting were horrendous especially the 'guns don't kill people, fat people kill people' and the idea of making fat people wear hats to mark them out in society was akin to facism made me think about how jews were treated during the war. One thing I did find amusing though was that Giles Coren calculated his BMI wrong. At one point near the end he said he was 5ft 9in and 12 1/2 stone and had a BMI of 24. He's incorrect - his BMI is closer to 26 which puts him in the overweight category
Im just surprised that channel 4 were happy about broadcasting such a thing. I am fully aware that we all have freedom of speech... But there was not even an arguement here, it was as if what Giles Coren thinks, Giles Coren gets. He is a truely vile man, and I really in many ways feel sorry for him. For someone to have that kind of mind set is appauling and shameful. All I can say is that his programme has royally screwed me over. Its playing with peoples emotions, and I don't agree with that. Shame on Channel 4.
As I watched the program I realised just how uneducated fat people where as regards there own health. They seem to think it is a god given right to expect to be looked after by society as it societys fault they eat to much. One comment he made was that it is the poorer end of our society that is fat. Well when you look at the amount they spend on food (just walk around your local Tescos and see them all pushing the super size trolleys full to the brim) there is nothing poor about them. I could not afford there food bill andI earn £30k a year. The conclusion I came to was that it is never a fat persons fault they are over weight which has always been borne out by conversations I have had with fat people. Well it is their fault, stop putting it in your mouth!
Originally posted by Merikiito: As I watched the program I realised just how uneducated fat people where as regards there own health. They seem to think it is a god given right to expect to be looked after by society as it societys fault they eat to much. One comment he made was that it is the poorer end of our society that is fat. Well when you look at the amount they spend on food (just walk around your local Tescos and see them all pushing the super size trolleys full to the brim) there is nothing poor about them. I could not afford there food bill andI earn £30k a year. The conclusion I came to was that it is never a fat persons fault they are over weight which has always been borne out by conversations I have had with fat people. Well it is their fault, stop putting it in your mouth!
Unbelievable... Just another person who is willing to make a fool of themselves like Giles. Rather shamefull that you still can tar people with the same brush. You make me bloody sick! Go back under the rock you came from. And i really dont care that im being rude, I'm angry, and im expressing myself. As i said, you make me sick.
