any chance you could address the points made by the journalist rather than personally attack him?

If you attack the person and not their arguement it's clear that you don't have any evidence to counter his claims.

Malkie,from what I have read of your posts you are attacking every element of a person's argument rather than appreciating their opinion.Aggressively dissecting a person's veiws is both sad and totally uneccessary. I can appreciate you have strong opinions on this subject but come on...

so I take it you've got no come back ? I didn't think so.

attacking every element of a person's arguement? Um, this is a debate forum, that's what you are *supposed* to do. If you are uncomfortable with this then head back to the kiddie forums.

Debate's about discussion, Malkie, not attack. That's what you're supposed to do (discuss). You're evidently working under the wrong rules of engagement.

quote:

Originally posted by RecklessOne:
Eating more calories than you burn off through exercise = weight gain

exclude the people with medical conditions, and just focus on the greedy people, who eat more food than they need.

I have a heart condition, im only 24 i have lived a healthy active lifestyle, i went to the gym 3 times a week, read health magazines, i spent years looking after my body, ran mini marathons and cross country etc.

when i needed treatment i had to wait over 4 months until i could see a cardiologist, over the many trips, the majority of people in the waiting to see him were obese.

It took me one year to be diagnosed with my condition because i was placed behind people who hadnt looked after their bodies.

i believe people should be taxed on body fat percentage, when i went to the gym my BMI was about 35 but i had around 15% bodyfat


chris

My my.

Another way of looking at your situtaion was that you gave yourself a dickie heart because you exercised far too much.

How many of those obese patients ahead of you in the waiting room were on long term high dosage of steroids?

Come on, give us an answer.

You don`t know, do you?

thats beacuse you don`t know their medical circumstances.

All you see is a fat person.

quote:

Originally posted by RecklessOne:
If you eat more food that your body needs, you gain weight

obese people with no medical reason why, SHOULD be taxed, why should i pay for their healthcare when they have brought it on themselves

if they cant stop stuffing their faces they can do
30mins of jogging 3 times a week, it isnt much to ask, plus they will live longer

Pardon?

Isn`t that what YOU used to do?

Don`t you now have a heart condition?

Let me ask you something.

If you knew beforehand that you had a heart condition, would you have taken up sports with the same intensity that you did?

What does your Doctor suggest you do now with regards your sports? Has he advised you to stop? Have you also drastically decreased your calorific intake? Do you still ingest Whey protein, and glutamate powder, Creatin Monohydrate et al?

quote:

Originally posted by Twinkle 1404:

Obesity is self inflicted 24/7 over a long period of time in full knowledge of the health and lifestyle consequences it will have. What have Ginger haired people got to do with anything? Last time I looked they weren't having limbs amputated or having massive numbers of heart attack or strokes.

he! he!..... what you have failed to realise is that fat people do NOT have massive amounts of heart attacks and strokes!! They are far too unfit to survive a massive heart attack. it`s the slim fit people who are the ones who survive multiple heart attacks


Or people who have genuine accidents while in persuit of a fit and healthy lifestyle?

If fit and healthy people wish to pursue dangerous sports, why should I have to fund their medical treatment when they have an accident.

After all, they are not called "dangerous sports" for nothing

Besides all this we are not talking about other groups, we are talking about fat people. . .

No, we are talking about blaming others for their lifestyle choices, who expect others to pay for their inherant medical treatment.

It`s so easy to see a fat person, making them an easy target.


There is no education argument, EVERYBODY knows that fruit and veg is healthy, chips and cakes are not. No poverty argument, healthy foods are cheaper. Unless you want to accept that all fat people are also stupid, there is no reason that they cannot break their habit. So it is a choice, and as such it should be paid for out of their own pockets.[/QUOTE]

ANY illness, disease, accident that is a direct result of a persons` lifestyle choice should, in theory, be paid for by the person concerned. But as they are not, why should the select few get victimised?

testing

Reposted using a visible colour.

I used green before because Channel 4 use of green stood out so clearly.

quote:

Originally posted by Angelus the Vampire:

quote:

Originally posted by Twinkle 1404:

Obesity is self inflicted 24/7 over a long period of time in full knowledge of the health and lifestyle consequences it will have. What have Ginger haired people got to do with anything? Last time I looked they weren't having limbs amputated or having massive numbers of heart attack or strokes.

he! he!..... what you have failed to realise is that fat people do NOT have massive amounts of heart attacks and strokes!! They are far too unfit to survive a massive heart attack. it`s the slim fit people who are the ones who survive multiple heart attacks


Or people who have genuine accidents while in persuit of a fit and healthy lifestyle?

If fit and healthy people wish to pursue dangerous sports, why should I have to fund their medical treatment when they have an accident.

After all, they are not called "dangerous sports" for nothing

Besides all this we are not talking about other groups, we are talking about fat people. . .

No, we are talking about blaming others for their lifestyle choices, who expect others to pay for their inherant medical treatment.

It`s so easy to see a fat person, making them an easy target.


There is no education argument, EVERYBODY knows that fruit and veg is healthy, chips and cakes are not. No poverty argument, healthy foods are cheaper. Unless you want to accept that all fat people are also stupid, there is no reason that they cannot break their habit. So it is a choice, and as such it should be paid for out of their own pockets.

ANY illness, disease, accident that is a direct result of a persons` lifestyle choice should, in theory, be paid for by the person concerned. But as they are not, why should the select few get victimised?[/QUOTE]

I think fat people should be taxed and there benifits taken away from them and then forced to have liposuction.

quote:

Originally posted by Road Trip:
I think fat people should be taxed and there benifits taken away from them and then forced to have liposuction.

And the fat from the liposuction could be forcibly injected into underweight people, so we could all be the same size! And underweight people could be taxed and do without their benefits until they agreed to the operation!

Love it!

Another way of looking at your situtaion was that you gave yourself a dickie heart because you exercised far too much.

Oh, you mean like that Jim Fixx fellow, the jogging guru, who died of a heart attack in his 40s!

I have a heart condition, im only 24 i have lived a healthy active lifestyle, i went to the gym 3 times a week, read health magazines, i spent years looking after my body, ran mini marathons and cross country etc.

You might have been as well staying at home, resting, then

Here's an interesting piece about low BMIs.


If you are underweight (BMI less than 20), you may be malnourished and develop:

Compromised immune function
Respiratory disease
Digestive disease
Cancer
Osteoporosis
Increased risk of falls and fractures.

Should we tax underweight people as they would appear to be contributing to their own health problems? I personally wouldn't, as is evident by previous posts, as I don't feel that any section of society should be deprived of health care, or forced to pay more taxes than people with different bodyshapes, and I imagine that many underweight people have as much problem putting on weight, as overweight people have losing it

First of all, Yes I know that there are some people who genuinely have problems with their weight. And I no way want to discriminate against those people. But as a whole, I do strongly believe that the majority of overweight people who can actually do something about it. I know a LOT of 'large' people and I know, as well as they do, that they do not have self control when it comes to food. I also believe that in 'fat' families, a lot of the time people cannot blame 'big bones.' They have probably been bought up eating badly and got fat. Its hard to shift fat once its there and once youre in a habit of eating badly its not easy to stop. As my Grandad used to say, "You never saw a fat person during the war what with all the rationing......." It does not cost more to eat a healthier diet. You may have to spend a little more time shopping and a little more time cooking it, but money is no excuse. At the end of the day, if fatness is increasing in the UK and its costing us more and more each year, we have to ask ourselves WHY? And what we can do not only to lose weight as a nation, but also how to PREVENT it. But for a lot of people I truly beleive its a case of EATING LESS AND MOVING MORE!!!

I think the point that is basically being missed here is that it is personal freedoms which are being infringed upon.

Whatever the reasons for people being obese, there is still no excuse for the media and the government to act as nanny to the people.

The issue of cost is really not an issue at all. If the figures spent on obese people (i think it was something like £300m a year) are offensive, would it not be wise to measure this figure against what the rest of our hard earned money is being spent on? Whether we tax the fat or not, nobodys taxes are going to reduce. Our government is being allowed to spend £4billion in a foreign war (regardless of whether we should be involved in it or not) and we are turning against each other on issues which should, really, not be issues at all. Personal freedom extends to all aspects of life, and if we are suddenly to start deciding that certain people (in this case people who are obese) do not have the right to our collectivley funded services, then we need to re-arrange our society into one which is completely run by conservatism and adheres to the "laissez faire", dog-eat-dog approach of government.

Then we can scorn people who do not agree with us, spend our own money on only ourselves and allow those who are unable or unwilling to comform to our ideals to die if they cannot afford the medical care they need.

quote:

Whether we tax the fat or not, nobodys taxes are going to reduce. Our government is being allowed to spend £4billion in a foreign war (regardless of whether we should be involved in it or not) and we are turning against each other on issues which should, really, not be issues at all. Personal freedom extends to all aspects of life, and if we are suddenly to start deciding that certain people (in this case people who are obese) do not have the right to our collectivley funded services,

yup hit the nail on the head this is not about how people react to obese people, a gut reaction if you will. It is about acknowledging that we are a socialist democracy and that it cuts against the grain to start talking about certain groups being excluded. We could loose everything that liberals have striven for centuries to this erosion of a freedom here and a freedom there. Each time the government or some pressure group will give an apparently reasonable motivation for their encroachment (the road to hell is paved with these ). "the war on terror", the "war on drugs" and now the "war on fat". Sure these are messy issues but freedom is messy, god help us when we're part of a finely oiled machine. Hitler never said lets gas Jews and kill without mercy creating as many atrocities as we possibly can, he said I am fighting for a nationalist ideal and these people are an impediment... it is a pity but we must put them in camps.... a suggestion that I have seen echoed in this discussion more than once... after all there were no fat people in concentration camps!

quote:

Originally posted by Loujeg:
First of all, Yes I know that there are some people who genuinely have problems with their weight. And I no way want to discriminate against those people. But as a whole, I do strongly believe that the majority of overweight people who can actually do something about it. I know a LOT of 'large' people and I know, as well as they do, that they do not have self control when it comes to food. I also believe that in 'fat' families, a lot of the time people cannot blame 'big bones.' They have probably been bought up eating badly and got fat. Its hard to shift fat once its there and once youre in a habit of eating badly its not easy to stop. As my Grandad used to say, "You never saw a fat person during the war what with all the rationing......." It does not cost more to eat a healthier diet. You may have to spend a little more time shopping and a little more time cooking it, but money is no excuse. At the end of the day, if fatness is increasing in the UK and its costing us more and more each year, we have to ask ourselves WHY? And what we can do not only to lose weight as a nation, but also how to PREVENT it. But for a lot of people I truly beleive its a case of EATING LESS AND MOVING MORE!!!

It does not cost more to eat a healthier diet.

I can agree with you on this aspect.

quote:

any chance you could address the points made by the journalist rather than personally attack him?

If you attack the person and not their arguement it's clear that you don't have any evidence to counter his claims.

Wow..... so true (a bit of an own goal there though), though I think "journalist" is a bit strong in this case. Trumped up food critic maybe? If you want attacks on his point reread what I said about the "documentary" one nurse and some unsubstantiated statistics doth not a balanced oppioion make.....

I few years ago I walked 3 miles each way to work (on gradients), went to the gym twice a week and did longer walks with my boyfriend. I went to uni retrained to do a different job and gained four stone.

Did I eat more? No. I had a healthy diet
Did I drink alcohol? Ok in moderation - I'll not lie.

The sole reason I gained weight in such a quick time, was the result of commuting to my new job and no way could I exercise like I used to.

I didn't eat pies and junk like some of the disgusting individuals suggest fat people do. I simply couldn't exercise like I used to.

Thankfully, I have lost 2 stones and am in the process of loosing a further stone. I have developed a routine I can fit in with my lifestyle. I still maintain the long weekend walks. But I skip ( good enough for boxers) and go for early morning swims at 6am.

My diet? Still the same. 90% healthy and 10% fun.

I haven't read the full thread, but I am sure that it will have been suggested - the BMI is not a wholey accurate measure of fatness. Or else the entire England rugby team would be taxed.

Admittedly, the big, fat bed ridden guy - well he left me speechless. But targeting people lik this is not a good idea.

But well done to the trucker who did change his lifestyle.

As for Giles, what a prat. The advertising agency used for brainstorming ought to be boycotted too.