Another point which I feel I should add is that as someone has already pointed out eating is about getting nutients, if anti-depresents have changed my matabolism to the extent that obtaining enough nutrients to live requires me to eat enough to gain weight then how can I help it... not eating: not getting enough nutrients causes illness or death... isn't that equally simple?

By tolerating excuses (ie your "complex reasons"), you will never tackle the problem.

You seem unable to grasp basic physiology, and at the end of the say it's extremely simple to control what goes into your mouth.

No more excuses.

quote:

By tolerating excuses (ie your "complex reasons"), you will never tackle the problem.

You seem unable to grasp basic physiology (I KEEP TELLING YOU I GET WHAT YOU ARE SAYING I JUST DON'T AGREE ARE YOU GOING TO REWIND THE TAPE AND PLAY IT AGAIN OR WLL YOU COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT MIGHT CONVINCE ME? DO YOU ACCEPT THAT THERE ARE COMPLEX REASONS FOR ACTIONS YES OR NO?), and at the end of the Day it's extremely simple to control what goes into your mouth, (THAT'S WHAT i'M AKING "IS IT?", "yes" without proof that acctually adresses the issues I've raised without just ignoring them is not a satisfying answer).

No more excuses (FAT PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE TO MAKE EXCUSES THE LAW STANDS WITH THEM).

Why do we love, fight or dream, what does it mean to be human. An alien might have no understanding of the issues I raise but, you are not going to get away with "is this the human emotion you call love?" Historical, medical and psycological presidents all counter your assertion. various governments have had a zero toloerance policy for many issues when they become fundemental (which I think eating could be said to be) the reult is always revolution rather than capitulation. If it's easy to control your body please do not have sex for a year and only breath half as often(you would survive but how long could you acctuly force your body to do it?). As to psycology the mind is surely the most important factor in choice and anyone who has done even a little studdy on the suject could tell you that there are some suprising and irrisistable forces which giovern our apparently free actions. Not all excuses are invalid (thats your second logical mistake) and we are talking about wheter tax will controle a problem which stubornly trying to tell others what to do without engaging with them has failed to effect(we have tried telling people to stop eating it's not working) By drawing this line in the sand you are polarising people... as I have said before, if people withh weight problems could just understand that even some exersise or reduction in food in take could help, things might improve. Your all or nothing thinking is counter productive. (at least that's how I see it and that's as valid as your own perspective, with the bonus that it keeps our "PC" values intact and does not errode at all the work we had to do to get society to this point. People did once think the way you seem to be thinking... do you think they changed the system because it was working?)

If we want to solve a problem we must understand it, how people get fat is simple why is not.

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THAT'S WHAT i'M AKING "IS IT?"

Of course it is. To continue to claim otherwise is EXACTLY why we have an obese nation. Tolerance of weak excuses.

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If it's easy to control your body please do not have sex for a year and only breath half as often(you would survive but how long could you acctuly force your body to do it?).

You are being slightly silly now - no? We're talking about forcing your body to do anything, we're simply talking about controlling what goes into your body. You have far better control over that than you do your breathing rate.

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Not all excuses are invalid

They are all invalid. There's no good reason to be overweight at all.

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You are being slightly silly now - no? We're talking about forcing your body to do anything, we're simply talking about controlling what goes into your body. You have far better control over that than you do your breathing rate.

You can control your breathing rate, if you are determined to do so. Do it for a year, as ol'Toby suggests, or find an overweight friend or acquaintance, who wants to lose weight. You could practise breath control, as yogis do, until your friend has come down to his/her ideal weight. Let us know how you get on...

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Originally posted by malkie:
By tolerating excuses (ie your "complex reasons"), you will never tackle the problem.

You seem unable to grasp basic physiology, and at the end of the say it's extremely simple to control what goes into your mouth.

No more excuses.

Malkie, you seem unable to grasp complex nutritional necessities like vitamin and mineral requirements.

[quote]If it's easy to control your body please do not have sex for a year and only breath half as often(you would survive but how long could you acctuly force your body to do it?).


You are being slightly silly now - no? (NO, NO MORE THAN YOU WERE WITH YOUR MYOPIC VIEWS THAT'S KIND OF THE POINT>>>> We're (DID YOU MEAN NOT?) talking about forcing your body to do anything (YES YOU ARE, PEOPLE EAT BECAUSE THEIR BODY TELLS THEM THEY ARE HUNGRY... THE BREATHING ANALOGY WAS MEANT TO DEMONDSTRATE HOW HARD IT IS TO GO AGAINST THE DEMANDS OF YOUR BODY YOU CAN IT"S JUST TOUGH... THE SEX EXAMPLE DIRECTLY RELATED TO APPETITE), we're simply talking about controlling what goes into your body. You have far better control over that (IN BOTH CASES THE BODY TELLS YOU YOU NEED AIR OR FOOD... YOU JUST LAST WITHOUT FOOD FOR LONGER OTHERWISE THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE) than you do your breathing rate.(YES AND NO WHILE YPU ARE CONSIOUS YOU HAVE EXACTLY THE SAME CONTROLE... WHY DO YOU RECOGNISE THAT IT'S HARD TO STOP BREATHING AS OFTEN AS YOU WOULD LIKE TO... BECAUSE THAT UNLIKE THE NEED TO EAT TO EXCESS IS SOMETHING YOU CAN UNDERSTAND... MY POINT IS EXACTLY THAT IT'S EASY TO SAY "JUST STOP THAT" AND i CHOSE THIS EXAMPLE BECAUSE i'M DESPARATELY TRYING TO FIND SOMETHING YOU WILL EMPATHISE WITH.... ARE YOU HUMAN OR SHOULD i CALL SETI? quote]

Are all excuses always invalid???? What would be the point of them? I am late because the car got a flat sounds good to me and I recognis there are many reasons for beng over weight. You are too dogmatic, just not likeing what people do does not mean you get to dicide when their behaviour is wrong or not. If you had any humility you would say thank goodness I don't have the misfortune to have that particular problem and leave well enough alone. If you can't understand why people eat, drink or take drugs you really have no chance of altering their behaviour (because you cannot engage with them in any meaningful way). If you think all the reasons people do these things are just excuses then all you are showing is your ignorance. You are no use to them with this attitude so says me and just about every profesional in addiction. Firstthe addict must admit to themselves that they have a problem and then they can start altering their behaviour it is NEVER and external proccess. For someone who believes in choice why is this so hard to grasp? You also seem to be back on the theme that being over weight is the same as being obese or sick.... It is not, stop saying it unless you can prove it. An "I can, they are sick" just won't do.

I'm sorry Malkie but I really do feel that this is just going round and round, I am not trying to be rude and I absoltely do not concced your points but I'm bored of this "yes it is" "No it isn't" interchange. Lets, the point of this sort of thing is to learn from others and hear new idea's, I've heard the same idea too many times and we're neither of us learning anything.

i have been reading a lot of what you are both saying and you both agree calories in must result in calories being burnt as fuel if not this will result in being overweight, well you also have to realise what a very complex thing this is for the body to do have you heard of ATP im not an expert but there is about 5 diffrent stages you body HAS TO GO through before it will burn fat, now just think for a moment if you are on medication for whatever reasons this will affect the way your body works so if your body is not doing what it is ment to what hope is there? i will refere to myself so i dont offend any one but when i was overweight my body felt hoffid but i didnt realise at the time as i have lost weight and got a lot fitter i know how my body is working i can feel it. I could even tell you when im training when my body has used all its carbs and starts using fat for fuel, now if i was to need tablets that have a side affect of weight gain would i put weight on mabey mabey not but with my body being muffled by medication i mabey would not be in tune and yes could prob put the pounds on,do you get it now,sorry for any spelling etc like i said before the english is not great