Oh god almighty! Change the bloody record Malkie... Your really becoming quite tedious now!

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Originally posted by malkie:Where did I say that all fat people are lazy and unwilling ?

Seeing as this discussion is about obesity, you certainly implied it here:

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I'm unhappy that my taxes are being used as benefits for the lazy and the unwilling.

So, implying that all fat people are lazy and unwilling is one Gross generalisation and completely inaccurate according to the many scientific experts that contribute to the World Health Organization. Yes?

I implied absolutely nothing - you are just jumping to a conclusion.

I am unhappy that my taxes are supporting the lazy and the unwilling. Not all obese people are lazy and unwilling.

All of the 'A's are 'C's
Some of the 'B's are 'C's

A does not equal B

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Not all obese people are lazy and unwilling.

So you concede. Thank you.

Now how about people who appear perfectly healthy but are more prone to deposit fat dangerously around their vessels. They suddenly, unexpectedly find themselves in the hospital in their late 30s early 40s. Should we tax them too?

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Now how about people who appear perfectly healthy but are more prone to deposit fat dangerously around their vessels. They suddenly, unexpectedly find themselves in the hospital in their late 30s early 40s. Should we tax them too?

And what about people who are underweight? It's very rarely pointed out that people who are underweight have as many health risks are people who are obese. Have to point out though that the emphasis here has to be on the word RISK. Not everyone who is obese will have physical health problems. BMI was only intended to be used for insurance calculations with the idea that fatter people would be more at risk of having a heart attack/death and therefore should pay more life insurance. Unfortunately it's now being used everywhere and inappropriately. It's actually more appropriate to use waist circumference for health risk as it has been demonstrated that 'apple' body shapes are more likely to develop type II diabetes and heart problems.

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Originally posted by A-D:

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Not all obese people are lazy and unwilling.

So you concede. Thank you.

Now how about people who appear perfectly healthy but are more prone to deposit fat dangerously around their vessels. They suddenly, unexpectedly find themselves in the hospital in their late 30s early 40s. Should we tax them too?

Not really, considering I never claimed they were all lazy in the first place. In actual fact you are conceeding that the conclusion you jumped to was inaccurate.

I will stress yet again that there is nothing stopping anyone losing weight.

To your second point - I'd tax anyone who is the cause of their own health problems.

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Not everyone who is obese will have physical health problems.

Wrong. Not every obese person will manifest health problems, but they all have them. Increased fat in arteries, damaged joints, poorly functioning liver and kidneys etc etc etc

Just because they don't drop dead doesn't mean they don't have physical health problems.

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I'm unhappy that my taxes are being used as benefits for the lazy and the unwilling.

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Not all obese people are lazy and unwilling.

Are you saying that you're ok paying towards obese people that aren't lazy and unwilling?

This post is dead!

Guys, this is going absolutely no where now! Everyone is repeating themselves.

Seems pointless now.

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Originally posted by A-D:

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I'm unhappy that my taxes are being used as benefits for the lazy and the unwilling.

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Not all obese people are lazy and unwilling.

Are you saying that you're ok paying towards obese people that aren't lazy and unwilling?

Given that anyone can lose weight I'd argue that even the obese who are genuinely wanting to lose weight but aren't simply are not trying hard enough.

ie they are not willing enough. They are not unwilling or lazy, just not willing enough.

So, yeah, they'd get taxed under my reforms

I'd give them a tax rebate if they got down to their target weight - give them an incentive.

Like I'd said previously I'd also make all of the unemployed do community service each week to get their benefits, and I'd revoke all benefits for single parents.

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Originally posted by malkie:
ie they are not willing enough. They are not unwilling or lazy, just not willing enough.

Right right (Looking at that sentence, can you honestly say you never implied that all fat people are lazy and unwilling? - Don't worry, we don't have to go down that road)

So what if they get down to their target weight and get an incentive, but they still end up in the hospital due to heart problems? Would they still have to cough up for their healthcare then?

Malkie you are still looking at things in such a black and white nature...

"and I'd revoke all benefits for single parents."

You can't make statements like this! Purely because things are not EVER that simple!
You have no idea why these people are in these situations...

Again your comments are all complete bull!

LOL @ trouble1978 - rather than counter my points you personally attack me. It just proves that you have no arguement and can only resort to name calling.

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So what if they get down to their target weight and get an incentive, but they still end up in the hospital due to heart problems? Would they still have to cough up for their healthcare then?

Yes.

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You can't make statements like this! Purely because things are not EVER that simple!
You have no idea why these people are in these situations...

There's no reason for anyone to be in any unfortunate situation if they take simple steps to plan for the every eventuality in the future.

If you disagree then please give us a few 'what-if's' for me to rip apart.

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Again your comments are all complete ****

well, how about you counter them with evidence to the contrary rather than just moan about them?

Me moaning? Oh come on, Malkie YOU my friend are the only one moaning here... The only one who seems so hard done by!

No facts are needed here. It is a simple fact that some people who are on income support did not plan to be in that situation. But stuff happens in life that you sometimes can't control. If you cant get your brain around the fact that this is true then once again I feel quite disgusted by you.

Go on, rip me to shreds, i really couldnt give a monkeys. Because at the end of the day, I know without fail that I am right.

One thing i will say is this.... Yes I know that there are many many people out there who are on income support/benefits and really they have no need to be when it is perfectly easy for them to get a job. But once again Malkie, not everything is always as black and white as that. Some people out there really do not want to be on benefits, but for a short time in their lives they have been... knocked off the horse, and untill they can get back on they need to accept help.

My problem with your statment is that you don't think of things like this. And im sorry, but these things need to be thought about. Because they are true! Sometimes things are completely unavoidable!

Rubbish still, good to see Malkie.

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Originally posted by malkie:

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So what if they get down to their target weight and get an incentive, but they still end up in the hospital due to heart problems? Would they still have to cough up for their healthcare then?

Yes.

And if they can't afford it? (Lets not forget these are the non lazy, willing fat people who have demonstrated that they're doing all they can to loose weight under your regime)

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It is a simple fact that some people who are on income support did not plan to be in that situation. But stuff happens in life that you sometimes can't control.

Such as ?

You continue to post rhetorical fluff, but make no attempt to actually justify your assertations.

stuckinamatchbox - that's all you've done in this thread since the start - rant a load of nonsense with no context, evidence or examples to support your opinion.

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And if they can't afford it?

Then they shouldn't get it - simple as that.

My solution would be for them to approach a charity for the money required. I see that as a better option as donation to charity is voluntary, whereas taxes are not. Hence you could give 40% of your salary to a charity every month, and they could pay for healthcare of the lazy and unwilling.

Would you happily give 40% of your salary away to charity every month to help people that you'll never come into contact with ?

Sooner people start taking responsibility for their own choices the sooner our country can sort itself out.

Talking of fluff.

Do you think maybe theres a reason why taxes arent voluntary Malkie??

Sooner people think about others, the better the world would be. Your personal vision sounds a touch like Thatcherism to me, and yes Im sure its the system most people who earn more than the average would choose. Again do you think there maybe a reason for this?

Not all overweight people are ill, or are more likely to get ill than a slightly underwieght person. Some people who look fatter may actually be healtier than those that look thin.

Also you say you pay more per pound in taxes than those who earn less than you. As far as I know you pay the tax band upto a certain level, ie upto £33000 you pay nearer 20%, and only over £33000 do you pay 40%?

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Sooner people think about others, the better the world would be.

No. The sooner people take responsibility for themselves the better the world will be. It's not my responsibility to sort out the lives of the lazy and unwilling.

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Again do you think there maybe a reason for this?

More rhetorical fluff ???? why bother posting useless nonsense like this ?

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Not all overweight people are ill, or are more likely to get ill than a slightly underwieght person.

And you'll notice this thread is about taxing the obese, not the slightly over weight. Try reading - eh?

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Also you say you pay more per pound in taxes than those who earn less than you. As far as I know you pay the tax band upto a certain level, ie upto £33000 you pay nearer 20%, and only over £33000 do you pay 40%?

aha, yes, that's *exactly* my point. Why should you pay *more* tax (percentage wise) if you have a good job?

It's a simple case of taking from the rich and giving to the lazy.

I said:-

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It's a simple case of taking from the rich and giving to the lazy.

actually, it's more a case of taking from the hard working and giving to the lazy.

Not doubt you'll whine now and say there are plenty of hard working people earning minimum wage. Well, obviously they aren't working hard enough, are they? There's nothing stopping anyone getting ahead.