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quote: Profanity in posts is picked up BEFORE the post reaches the forum.
Name calling? In your imagination.
So you didn't call me a word starting with "a" and ending in "hole", because I certainly remember you doing that. It's clear when you resort to name calling you don't have any arguement. quote: Get turned down because there`s no work experience in chosen field on the CV. Gaining experience is the WHOLE point of the student work placement year.
I totally disagree. We take on hundreds of placement students each year. We don't care that they have little or no experience because we know we can teach them skills in a short space of time. Clearly someone who can't find a placement isn't looking hard enough. quote: So far my son has applied for nigh on 75 student work placement jobs to start in aug/sept. Those that have bothered to reply have all said they want experienced people. He is still applying, virtually every relevent compnay locally, and going as far afield as Oxford, Gloucester, Surrey, etc etc
Well I'm sorry, but he's not trying hard enough, or smart enough. Sounds to me he's applying to people who don't regularly take on placement students. Can I ask when he started applying, as it sounds like he's left it far far too late for this year. Really should have started applying this time *last* year (for a placement this aug). quote: dur!! Cheap Student housing, of course, how else??? My nephew goes to the london Uni at South Bank.
Thank you for proving my point. Remember of course, student accomodation (ie halls) are typically only reserved for the first year, afterwhich they have to find their own accomodation. Nothing stopping anyone finding somewhere to live in London - even on a student stipend. quote: god, you really are trying to fool people with a load of twaddle, aren`t you?
Then please feel free to counter any point that I've made. To dismiss it as "twaddle" just shows that you don't actually have any come back. |
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MALKIE: So you didn't call me a word starting with "a" and ending in "hole", because I certainly remember you doing that. Go on, Malkie, I dare you to say it. Or are you such a tight one, your lips can't force the word out.  |
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quote: Originally posted by malkie: quote: Profanity in posts is picked up BEFORE the post reaches the forum.
Name calling? In your imagination.
So you didn't call me a word starting with "a" and ending in "hole", because I certainly remember you doing that. It's clear when you resort to name calling you don't have any arguement. quote: Get turned down because there`s no work experience in chosen field on the CV. Gaining experience is the WHOLE point of the student work placement year.
I totally disagree. We take on hundreds of placement students each year. We don't care that they have little or no experience because we know we can teach them skills in a short space of time. Clearly someone who can't find a placement isn't looking hard enough. quote: So far my son has applied for nigh on 75 student work placement jobs to start in aug/sept. Those that have bothered to reply have all said they want experienced people. He is still applying, virtually every relevent compnay locally, and going as far afield as Oxford, Gloucester, Surrey, etc etc
Well I'm sorry, but he's not trying hard enough, or smart enough. Sounds to me he's applying to people who don't regularly take on placement students. Can I ask when he started applying, as it sounds like he's left it far far too late for this year. Really should have started applying this time *last* year (for a placement this aug). quote: dur!! Cheap Student housing, of course, how else??? My nephew goes to the london Uni at South Bank.
Thank you for proving my point. Remember of course, student accomodation (ie halls) are typically only reserved for the first year, afterwhich they have to find their own accomodation. Nothing stopping anyone finding somewhere to live in London - even on a student stipend. quote: god, you really are trying to fool people with a load of twaddle, aren`t you?
Then please feel free to counter any point that I've made. To dismiss it as "twaddle" just shows that you don't actually have any come back.
Hi, Malkie, you evidently realise you've lost the "fat wars". You keep trying to make this thread into one about your favourite subjects - "How Malkie achieved things by working hard"; "How Everyone but Malkie is dumb"; or your very favourite "How money is everything".  |
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quote: Furthermore I'd have every single person on benefits doing community service every single week. If they don't then they don't get benefits.
small point besides your other gaffs but that's a job you're describing how is it a benifit? |
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quote: That's what all closet racists say.
K another comment on you mate, sorry, but you really do bring it on yourself (you should understand this logic). Why is it that you use such illogical and agressive arguments? if someone defends their position you don't seem to use any form of reasoned rebuttal you just attack their character and repeat yourself. It seems that as far as you're concerned: you are fat if you defend fat people or racist if you say you are not... are you just trying to get a rise out of people or are you serious? People who are acctually racist in fact act towards the issue the way you seem to act towards your own predudices, they don't ignollage them and beleive that their reasons for condeming others are totaly rational.Would you speak to people in this manner face to face? I think I've read most of these threads now and you don't seem to have developed your argument at all.I want to know if you are serious because I want to know if it is possible to reason with you or if I am wasting my time even addressing your points. Take what I'm saying as you like but if you can, take a step back, maybe re read some of the things you've said, genuinly try and understand some of the points other people have made and then see if you feel the same way on this issue as you did at the start. PS on the other front if you are genuine your raw capitalist , "I'm alright Jack, get a job" mentality is extreemly depressing. If you make those on benifits do menial work to "earn their benefits" then they will put others out of work. Indeed without a good benifit system many peoples salaries will deminish further since you choice will be work or starve, you really need to understand that in the long run helping others is helping yourself(what if you were fired tomorrow and couldn't find work?). Sure in the short term you might get benifits from being selfish but if the whole world acts that way there will be no system to sustain any of us. Indeed some of the issues that lead us to the questions in these threads centre around this very shortsightedness. |
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quote: Oh, and red wine is good for you ? Absolute nonsense - it's the antioxidants in the red wine which came from the red grapes which are good for you, not the alcohol. You'd be far better eating a bunch of grapes.
Going to bed now, can't read any more of this guff. You might be better off eating grapes but what if you want to drink wine... People have been too "soft" on you mate, why argue from the back foot, people do not have to justify their lives to you or an intrusive government. As I have already pointed out according to the holy documentary (all hail the fascist who made it) two thirds of the country is over weight, thus the majority of people would be interested in funding for health issues relating to being over weight... they are paying for it, they are enjoying it and the fact that you seem to be an ascetic prude incapable of understanding the value of pleasure is of no relevance. The only way I for one am prepared to share a society with you is if I don't have to explain why I ordered the steak for dinner and why I had the wine instead of grapes. I have punched numerous holes in your argument that lazy fatties are making off with your precious tax money. You don't have a financial argument or even a scientific one... no you don't calories=fat is the phenomenological explanation but offers us no insight. Not only that but as I have pointed out, we do not use disproportionate crime statistics to legislate against young black males so why is it any different to legislate against fat people who are also victims of unfair discrimination based on a physical characteristic? Just because it is more likely that overweight people will get sick does not make it a certainty that they will ever need your support (a great relief to the young Tory fundraisers I am sure). To give an example I myself am large, NOT obese (I hasten to add) but I have done weight training since I was 15 and have always had a big build. I was discussing this issue with a friend of mine who is very thin and it came out that while my gym rated me as having an excellent cholesterol level she had a cholesterol problem. Your prejudice would have singled me out as the one with a risk factor just because of my size and shape, yet I have (up to this point anyway, lets not tempt fate) a clean bill of health and my thin friend has a problem. It's prejudice plain and simple. Of course being larger it IS more likely that I will have a shorter life expectancy, you don’t have to be obese for a heavy body to put strain on your heart or do damage to your joints (weight lifting didn’t help here, I already have twinges in my fingers at thirty and a family history of arthritis no doubt I brought it on myself with all my exercise…)I know from owning dogs that the larger breeds just don’t last as long… so you’ll forgive me Malkie if I say life’s just too short…. Hopefully some of the rest of you will understand when I say, the best of us will drink the wine and relish the marrow of life and if our flame burns shorter for burning brighter so be it. |
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quote: Originally posted by ol' toby: quote: Oh, and red wine is good for you ? Absolute nonsense - it's the antioxidants in the red wine which came from the red grapes which are good for you, not the alcohol. You'd be far better eating a bunch of grapes.
Going to bed now, can't read any more of this guff. You might be better off eating grapes but what if you want to drink wine... People have been too "soft" on you mate, why argue from the back foot, people do not have to justify their lives to you or an intrusive government. As I have already pointed out according to the holy documentary (all hail the fascist who made it) two thirds of the country is over weight, thus the majority of people would be interested in funding for health issues relating to being over weight... they are paying for it, they are enjoying it and the fact that you seem to be an ascetic prude incapable of understanding the value of pleasure is of no relevance. The only way I for one am prepared to share a society with you is if I don't have to explain why I ordered the steak for dinner and why I had the wine instead of grapes. I have punched numerous holes in your argument that lazy fatties are making off with your precious tax money. You don't have a financial argument or even a scientific one... no you don't calories=fat is the phenomenological explanation but offers us no insight. Not only that but as I have pointed out, we do not use disproportionate crime statistics to legislate against young black males so why is it any different to legislate against fat people who are also victims of unfair discrimination based on a physical characteristic? Just because it is more likely that overweight people will get sick does not make it a certainty that they will ever need your support (a great relief to the young Tory fundraisers I am sure). To give an example I myself am large, NOT obese (I hasten to add) but I have done weight training since I was 15 and have always had a big build. I was discussing this issue with a friend of mine who is very thin and it came out that while my gym rated me as having an excellent cholesterol level she had a cholesterol problem. Your prejudice would have singled me out as the one with a risk factor just because of my size and shape, yet I have (up to this point anyway, lets not tempt fate) a clean bill of health and my thin friend has a problem. It's prejudice plain and simple. Of course being larger it IS more likely that I will have a shorter life expectancy, you don’t have to be obese for a heavy body to put strain on your heart or do damage to your joints (weight lifting didn’t help here, I already have twinges in my fingers at thirty and a family history of arthritis no doubt I brought it on myself with all my exercise…)I know from owning dogs that the larger breeds just don’t last as long… so you’ll forgive me Malkie if I say life’s just too short…. Hopefully some of the rest of you will understand when I say, the best of us will drink the wine and relish the marrow of life and if our flame burns shorter for burning brighter so be it.
Cheers! (Winston Churchill, whether you like his politics or not, as I've said before on this thread, drank and smoked, was pretty overweight, and lived till well into his 90s... and some pretty large opera basses don't come into their own until they're well matured. Pavorotti, the tenor, may be falling to pieces now as he approaches old age, but he has a young wife and no doubt enjoyed a life of luxury and extravagance that Malkie could only envy. And I bet he paid taxes as well...  ) |
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quote: (what if you were fired tomorrow and couldn't find work?).
My insurance would keep me perfectly content. Besides, what's stopping me finding work? McDonalds are always employing, so to ever argue that someone can't find work is utter nonsense. True, it wouldn't pay what I'm getting right now, but it would get me closer to making ends meet without getting hand outs from the state. What's stopping anyone else doing the same? quote: You might be better off eating grapes but what if you want to drink wine...
sorry, but what relevance does that have to anything ? Did you completely miss the point I was making? Someone claimed that red wine (ie alcohol) was healthy, and I merely corrected them by pointing out it wasn't the alcohol, but antioxidants remaining from the red grapes. My point had nothing to do with choices or enjoying life. quote: I have punched numerous holes in your argument that lazy fatties are making off with your precious tax money.
Unfortuneately you haven't - other than sob stories and bleeding hearts. quote: You don't have a financial argument or even a scientific one... no you don't calories=fat is the phenomenological explanation but offers us no insight.
The scientific arguement is fact - that's not even up for subjective interpretation. The financial arguement is simple - I shouldn't have to pay for the incompetence of others. Again, there isn't a counter arguement for that other than you believe I'm not being fair. quote: we do not use disproportionate crime statistics to legislate against young black males so why is it any different to legislate against fat people
Not all blacks are criminals, however all fat people are fat. Stop attempting your nonsense analogies because each one is horribly flawed, and totally inappropriate. quote: Your prejudice would have singled me out as the one with a risk factor just because of my size and shape, yet I have (up to this point anyway, lets not tempt fate) a clean bill of health and my thin friend has a problem.
Cholesterol levels are only a single factor, and by no means the most important factor in the poor health associated with the obese. |
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Not all blacks are criminals, not all fat people are ill, so the analogy is probably more accurate than your entire stance.
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Malkie, READ what you have said read what others have said, you're looking terribly alone out there does it bother you? Does it even cross your mind that you might be wrong? I know humilitiy is not your strong suit but if you are going to ask me to stop using analogies and address your points (I think I have but you really arn't listening) could you please actually deal with mine. You say that all my arguments are flawed easily said ... like most of your hot air not proven. I know your scientific explination... almost no one is satififed with it.. dig a little deeper please , you are talking about human beings not a system of plumbing. You have not addressed what privileges your interests over the milliions of tax payers who are overweight (again two-thirds if the programme that inspired all this is to be believed) who pay for their health already.
"Not all blacks are criminals, however all fat people are fat" let me talk you through this one:
1) all blacks are black (t)
2) all fat people are fat (t)
3) all blacks are criminals (f)
(4) all fat people are ill (f)
YOU are missing the point here, (1) equates with (2) not (4).
"Cholesterol levels are only a single factor, and by no means the most important factor in the poor health associated with the obese." (The question is tax the fat... not just the obese there is a distinction you are missing. Functional people with a high BMI are diferent to people who are clinicly obese... though all these people deserve health care)
The point I am trying to make is that you would be wrong assuming that I was at risk simply because of size or diet... your predudice would have lead you to an eronious conclusion. I say Again I am not obese, but I am large I have muscle mass that puts me into a high BMI catagory. A) you have yet to explain how you would accurately rate people as the BMI is not fit for purpose B)am I at fault for wear on my body for damange incured while exersising? Or just because being over six foot two I place a greater strain on my heart?
As for the wine ... steak or anything else wht I AM ASKING is when did you get to stick your nose into what other people eat or how they live... you don't earn enough or pay enough tax for me to grant you that right in my life get lost. Finnally I say again are you just winding people up or are you really this extreme in your attitudes? I don't mind discusing something but at the moment you seem incapable of doing more than playing the same record. I am not convinced by your argument( most people hold it in contempt, so you would be regarded as a marinalised extremeist in a democracy= hence of no political significance) so unless you can evolve your arguments let's just beg to differ.
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quote: Not all blacks are criminals, however all fat people are fat.
All black people are black. All fat people are fat. All black people are not criminals (and all white people are not criminals either - it's a bit of a racist and bigoted anology you've given, Malkie), and all fat people do not have health problems. Your analogy is actually rubbish, Malkie, a bit like your solar-powered nightflying car. |
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quote: My insurance would keep me perfectly content.
Besides, what's stopping me finding work? McDonalds are always employing, so to ever argue that someone can't find work is utter nonsense. True, it wouldn't pay what I'm getting right now, but it would get me closer to making ends meet without getting hand outs from the state.
MALKIE: My insurance would keep me perfectly content.Until you couldn't pay the premiums any more, Malkie... You might get a job at McDonalds, Malkie, but then again you might not fit the type of person they are looking for, their company profile. You might be overqualified for some type of jobs, and underqualified for others. The longer you're out of work, the more difficult it will be to find some. The more rejection you face, the more rejected you'll look. You might have become mentally unstable and be unable to hold down a job, or even live in a house - mental illness can strike anyone, fat or thin, rich or poor. You might end up depending on handouts and living at the local hostel run by people who care about the less fortunate in society, and who recognise that "there but for the grace of God, go they". |
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quote: . My point had nothing to do with choices or enjoying life.
In the end it really does... you are intruding on someone elses choice to be fat (hey you said it was choice... I hasten to add it's often not a choice but why should people apologise if it is? if someone dosn't mind having a few extra pounds as a pay off for the pleasure they might derive from food that's their look out) We are already discussing what people should and shouldn't eat and we havn't even agreed on the tax or the principal behind it. Thats what I mean when I say over weight people are argueing from the back foot here. Being fat is not the same as being obese. We are so stigmatised in this society that fat people feel they should apologise for their shape and how they live at the outset. I say NO. I'll say it till the cows come home being fat is not wrong or shameful. If two thirds of the country is overweight then we either are over wieght or have loved ones who are... our attitude in prescribing what they will eat and singling them out is an insult to them all. There are many good reasons for people to be over weight but fundamentally i don't think anyone should have to explain themselves, it's the begining of a slide into legiimising this bigotry. Of course people should be encouraged to live healthily and those with wieght related illness must loose wieght but when did we gain the right to treat their life choices with contempt? If someone asked me for instance might say that Malkie sounds like a sociopath with dangerous tendancies and beleifs that should be excuded from society, who knows what he might say about me and my "bleeding heart" (uuurggh could it get more sterio typed?). Answer? Live and let live. As dangerous as I might think his ideals and behaviours might be to my own I must coexist with him within the laws and accept that he can live his life his way and we MUST respect each other as equal citizens capable of deciding all aspects of our personal lives ourselves. |
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quote: Not all blacks are criminals, not all fat people are ill, so the analogy is probably more accurate than your entire stance.
Medically speaking, all fat people are ill. quote: know your scientific explination... almost no one is satififed with it.
But ultimately that's my point. I realise people aren't satisfied with it, but perhaps if more people got to grips with the fact that obesity is 100% reversible then we'd be a better, healthier nation. Any obese person can lose weight - that's a biological fact, and it's as simple as that. However, today's nation of overly-PC, soft-hearted, excuse-bearing unhealthy people have been conditioned to blame everything else by their own eating habits. If people were held accountable for their decisions then we'd be a better nation for it. quote: You have not addressed what privileges your interests over the milliions of tax payers who are overweight (again two-thirds if the programme that inspired all this is to be believed) who pay for their health already.
They do pay, but *I* also pay - why should I have to? quote: In the end it really does... you are intruding on someone elses choice to be fat
So, by your arguement it's ok to steal someone else's car because you shouldn't be allowed to intrude on someone's choice to be a thief. The obese are stealing my taxes. |
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Well medically speaking doesnt seem to cover it then does it? I would say that explnation is simplistic nonsense and innaccurate. Again simple answers do not cover all people in all regions. To call a fat person ill, in a place primarily suffering from hunger would be to concentrate on the wrong issue. In fact to even notice it, I would be more worried about the state of health from the person spouting such nonsense. quote: However, today's nation of overly-PC, soft-hearted, excuse-bearing unhealthy people have been conditioned to blame everything else by their own eating habits.
Unhealthy people?? Just because people care about others, does not make them all fat or unhealthy, anymore than you spouting such tripe makes you thin or healthy. Then you go off again on the 'why should I' rant. Again its been dealt with many times in this thread and others. Its called society and its not just about covering your future needs, its about covering the costs of society, should you need them or not. The military are stealing my taxes. Farmers are stealing my taxes. The police are stealing my taxes. Education is stealing my taxes, I dont have kids, why am I paying for others? And you Malkie are wasting everyones time, and hence money. quote: They do pay, but *I* also pay - why should I have to?
Why should anyone? |
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quote: So, by your arguement it's ok to steal someone else's car because you shouldn't be allowed to intrude on someone's choice to be a thief.
The obese are stealing my taxes.
You are doing it again, I have repeatdly said that I am not encourageing anyone to break laws as they stand. How ever the law is on the side of a person's right to be fat at the moment and we are debateing whether laws should be introduced to penalise them for their life style and any strain it might put on the system. Thus since in a debate like this everything is about balanceing the individuals rights with societies needs, the question that arises is "Would the government have gone too far into my personal freedoms by changing the law so that I must conform to a standard shape size and weight/" especially if it is using a flawed measure like the BMI. Also I note people say we tax smokers and drinkers... this is NOT the case we tax the products they buy ... It's just easier for us to pick out fat people physicaly so you are sugesting this nosense. Again are you serious? You seem to be comeing so far from the right that I just can't take you seriously I keep waiting for you to go "Scr-ew you guys I'm going home" or "get in the kitchen and make me some pie." |
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RandomElement, you are totally missing the thrust of my arguement, and absolutely missing the point of the rant against obesity. quote: Well medically speaking doesnt seem to cover it then does it?
It absolutely does cover it. Absolutely every single last obese person can lose weight by eating less. Simple biological fact. quote: Its called society and its not just about covering your future needs, its about covering the costs of society, should you need them or not.
Again, you are missing my point. We all need certain services, however the obese need more, and that extra need could be completely avoided by a proper diet. So, because it's avoidable, why should I pay for their incompetence? quote: The military are stealing my taxes.
Farmers are stealing my taxes.
The police are stealing my taxes.
Education is stealing my taxes, I dont have kids, why am I paying for others?
The military and police protect us, the farmers grow produce for us, schools educate tomorrow's adults (which we'll all need in old age). However, the extra burden on society that the obese generate is unacceptable because obesity is 100% avoidable and reversible. quote: Why should anyone?
Society needs certain services, including healthcare. However, it shouldn't have to cope with the incompetence of others, and I certainly shouldn't be paying for it. quote: Also I note people say we tax smokers and drinkers... this is NOT the case we tax the products they buy
Fine. Tax unhealthy foods - I suggested that earlier in this thread. (or did you just jump in without bothering to read the thread first?) quote: You seem to be comeing so far from the right that I just can't take you seriously I keep waiting for you to go "Scr-ew you guys I'm going home" or "get in the kitchen and make me some pie."
What's wrong in coming from the 'right' Cartman? Just because it is different from your political view point ? Aren't you the one argueing for freedom of expression, and the right to live as they please - but yet you are quick to dismiss someone purely on political stand point. Pot. Kettle. |
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