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Hello, Riotgirl.
There are no good points. There's a vivisection debate in the 'Animal Testing' thread.
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Martin can give you some inside info on the meat industry as he used to work for a slaughterhouse.
So riotgirl, why are you against the meat industry?
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Hello, riotgirl. Welcome to the forum.  As with vivisection, I can't think of one good thing to say about the meat industry. I reckon this could be a very short thread indeed! |
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I can't think of one good thing to say about the vegetable industry - I personally think it's cruel and unnecessary in today's society.
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Hey sorry i thought this thing might at least send me an e-mail when someone replied to my post!!! And well said SnowFlakeFairy! So Malkie you asked why I was against the meat industry? personally I can't see why anyone is for it! To be able to eat meat that has been so callously slaughtered just to benefit our hunger strikes me as barbaric why does everyone see eating meat as such a nessecity?If tumor ridden,bloody,fatty,puss and cell filled food makes your stomache rumble there must be something wrong! Am I right or am I right?  |
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quote: So Malkie you asked why I was against the meat industry? personally I can't see why anyone is for it!
That doesn't exactly answer my question, does it? quote: To be able to eat meat that has been so callously slaughtered just to benefit our hunger strikes me as barbaric why does everyone see eating meat as such a nessecity?
Well, you can't naturally maintain a healthy diet if you don't eat meat. That's common between us, and every other meat eater on this planet. It is unnatural for humans not to eat meat. quote: If tumor ridden,bloody,fatty,puss and cell filled food makes your stomache rumble there must be something wrong!
If vegetables, soya and cereals makes your stomach rumble then there must be something wrong. quote: Am I right or am I right?
You are merely expressing an opinion - there's absolutely nothing "right" or "wrong" about it. |
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I am sure there are many healthy elderly meat eaters, and as many, if not more, healthy vegetarians. If you are going to eat flesh, eat good quality, organic flesh - that way the animal benefits. It has a reasonable life, with the ability to carry out natural behaviours, a good diet, and no unnecessary medications or pesticides.
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Malkie said: 'Martin can give you some inside info on the meat industry as he used to work for a slaughterhouse.'
I say: Too right. What's your point? I can, indeed, give first-hand descriptions of what goes on in slaughterhouses. I was close enough to the killing to get warm blood splashed on my arms and the smell and taste of internal organs and blood in my nose and throat.
Malkie, trying to be funny, said: 'I can't think of one good thing to say about the vegetable industry - I personally think it's cruel and unnecessary in today's society.'
I say: Not funny. Just daft.
And then he makes another daft comment:
'Well, you can't naturally maintain a healthy diet if you don't eat meat. That's common between us, and every other meat eater on this planet. It is unnatural for humans not to eat meat.'
I say: Yes, you can naturally maintain a healthy diet without meat. Vegetarians and vegans prove this. It is unnatural for humans to eat meat.
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The thing about vegetarianism is that, once you get into it, and passed the "it's meat, potatoes and vegetables without the meat" way of thinking, the menu choice actually turns out to be very varied and tasty. A good quality vegetarian lifestyle is a lot cheaper, full of vitamins and minerals, and the old adage that you can only get calcium from milk, or vitamin B12 from non-vegetarian sources is simply not true.
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quote: Originally posted by malkie:
Well, you can't naturally maintain a healthy diet if you don't eat meat.
Oh really? Well I wonder how elephants, bulls, buffalo, gorillas, giraffes, horses, rabbits, deer, (I could go on...) manage!  |
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quote: I say: Not funny. Just daft.
No come back then ? I didn't think so. quote: I say: Yes, you can naturally maintain a healthy diet without meat. Vegetarians and vegans prove this.
Not without supplimenting your diet with vitamins etc etc, which is entirely unnatural. quote: It is unnatural for humans to eat meat.
I know you say some silly stuff, but this one takes the biscuit. We've been doing it for millions of years, and have the teeth and digestion system to tolerate meat. quote: Oh really? Well I wonder how elephants, bulls, buffalo, gorillas, giraffes, horses, rabbits, deer, (I could go on...) manage!
Um, because they are herbivores and have digestive systems which can derive nutrients from grass, leaves and shoots which the human digestive system cannot. Perhaps you should consider an ecology lesson or two - really sounds to me like you have some major misunderstandings about ecology. |
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quote: Originally posted by malkie: quote: I say: Not funny. Just daft.
No come back then ? I didn't think so. quote: I say: Yes, you can naturally maintain a healthy diet without meat. Vegetarians and vegans prove this.
Not without supplimenting your diet with vitamins etc etc, which is entirely unnatural. quote: It is unnatural for humans to eat meat.
I know you say some silly stuff, but this one takes the biscuit. We've been doing it for millions of years, and have the teeth and digestion system to tolerate meat. quote: Oh really? Well I wonder how elephants, bulls, buffalo, gorillas, giraffes, horses, rabbits, deer, (I could go on...) manage!
Um, because they are herbivores and have digestive systems which can derive nutrients from grass, leaves and shoots which the human digestive system cannot. Perhaps you should consider an ecology lesson or two - really sounds to me like you have some major misunderstandings about ecology.
Tosh, Malkie. You're evidently not very well read on vegetarianism, vitamins or minerals. And how many people do you know have got mad cow disease from eating a carrot? It's not just about meat eating these days, it's about the amount of hormones, antibiotics and results from the cr*p (literally) that the animal is fed that is being absorbed by the human meat-eaters. |
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Riotgirl - I noticed you worded your post to ask about the meat industry and vivisectors (as opposed to the vivisection industry itself). Was that deliberate?
I only ask because what you think of an industry as a whole does not automatically mean hyou have to feel a certain way about the people who work in it.
Anyway - my opinion (not that I haven't made this clear on other threads but ho hum...):
Vivisection - would rather it didn't happen but it is necessary, so I think it should continue until we have the technology to replace it. I belive in the 3Rs and improving the welfare of lab animals. Most of the vivisectors I know are genuinely nice people.
The meat industry - No objection to eating meat. It IS natural for humans to eat meat, evolution and our anatomy and physiology makes that clear. We do not have the extra stomachs, natural urge to practice coprophagia, internal microorganisms etc to digest the most commonly available plant materials like rabbits, horses, cows etc do. Of course I think you can eat meat, or be veggie, and still be healthy as long as you get the right balance of nutrients. On the other hand I think the majority of the meat industry is in pretty bad shape and needs to be rectified to improve animal welfare. Therefore I think we need to get back to more animal and eco friendly farming methods, by buying organic, free range meat.
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quote: Originally posted by welfarist:
Riotgirl - I noticed you worded your post to ask about the meat industry and vivisectors (as opposed to the vivisection industry itself). Was that deliberate?
I only ask because what you think of an industry as a whole does not automatically mean hyou have to feel a certain way about the people who work in it.
Anyway - my opinion (not that I haven't made this clear on other threads but ho hum...):
Vivisection - would rather it didn't happen but it is necessary, so I think it should continue until we have the technology to replace it. I belive in the 3Rs and improving the welfare of lab animals. Most of the vivisectors I know are genuinely nice people.
The meat industry - No objection to eating meat. It IS natural for humans to eat meat, evolution and our anatomy and physiology makes that clear. We do not have the extra stomachs, natural urge to practice coprophagia, internal microorganisms etc to digest the most commonly available plant materials like rabbits, horses, cows etc do. Of course I think you can eat meat, or be veggie, and still be healthy as long as you get the right balance of nutrients. On the other hand I think the majority of the meat industry is in pretty bad shape and needs to be rectified to improve animal welfare. Therefore I think we need to get back to more animal and eco friendly farming methods, by buying organic, free range meat.
I would agree very much with you on the organic, free range meat, which is better both for the animal and the human being that consumes it. And vegetarians, as you say, can be as healthy as meat eaters. Which means that there is a choice for people who do not wish to eat meat. Nature is red in tooth and claw as those of us who have seen wildebeest dragged down and disembowelled by predators on the television are aware, and life can be short for a prey animal, but at least it gets to live in its natural environment and exhibit natural behaviours. However, the farming methods used in intensively rearing animals does not allow bird nor beast to act out natural behaviours and leads to overcrowding, stress and illness. Buying good quality, organic produce from reputable sources, if you are a meat eater, is the best option. |
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witch - I muust admit I would like to see intensive farming banned, with all livestock being entitled to enough space and facilities to allow them to practice natural behaviousr, and so that they are not overly susceptible to disease and injury as a result of overcrowding. riogirl - I forgot to answer the other point of your post quote: if you can find any good points?
The meat industry: Humans are naturally omnivorous (although vegetarians can be healthy, meat does form part of a healthy diet, contains various nutrients that are good for us, and does not cause health problems unless eaten in excessive quantities, or is of poor quality). Can't really think of much else - except if there wasn't a meat industry you wouldn't be able to keep carnivorous pets ither as they also need meat in their diet. (Cats inparticular are obligate carnivores - no meat industry = no more pet cats). Vivisection: Has been responsible for many of the most important medical breakthroughs in history. Has improved the quality of life for millions of people worldwide. Has saved millions of lives worldwide. Has given us a better understanding of biology, animals themselves, psychology and animal behaviour etc. Has saved and improved quality of life of many animals, from livestock to pets to the wild animals that are taken to wildlife rehab centres when they're injured. |
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quote: Originally posted by welfarist: witch - I muust admit I would like to see intensive farming banned, with all livestock being entitled to enough space and facilities to allow them to practice natural behaviousr, and so that they are not overly susceptible to disease and injury as a result of overcrowding. riogirl - I forgot to answer the other point of your post quote: if you can find any good points?
The meat industry: Humans are naturally omnivorous (although vegetarians can be healthy, meat does form part of a healthy diet, contains various nutrients that are good for us, and does not cause health problems unless eaten in excessive quantities, or is of poor quality). Can't really think of much else - except if there wasn't a meat industry you wouldn't be able to keep carnivorous pets ither as they also need meat in their diet. (Cats inparticular are obligate carnivores - no meat industry = no more pet cats). Vivisection: Has been responsible for many of the most important medical breakthroughs in history. Has improved the quality of life for millions of people worldwide. Has saved millions of lives worldwide. Has given us a better understanding of biology, animals themselves, psychology and animal behaviour etc. Has saved and improved quality of life of many animals, from livestock to pets to the wild animals that are taken to wildlife rehab centres when they're injured.
would be nice to have a choice though, other than death, for those people, suffering lifethreatening illnesses, who prefer medication not tested on animals... and not haranguing by nincompoops because there is no choice...  |
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quote: Originally posted by welfarist: witch - I muust admit I would like to see intensive farming banned, with all livestock being entitled to enough space and facilities to allow them to practice natural behaviousr, and so that they are not overly susceptible to disease and injury as a result of overcrowding. riogirl - I forgot to answer the other point of your post quote: if you can find any good points?
The meat industry: Humans are naturally omnivorous (although vegetarians can be healthy, meat does form part of a healthy diet, contains various nutrients that are good for us, and does not cause health problems unless eaten in excessive quantities, or is of poor quality). Can't really think of much else - except if there wasn't a meat industry you wouldn't be able to keep carnivorous pets ither as they also need meat in their diet. (Cats inparticular are obligate carnivores - no meat industry = no more pet cats). Vivisection: Has been responsible for many of the most important medical breakthroughs in history. Has improved the quality of life for millions of people worldwide. Has saved millions of lives worldwide. Has given us a better understanding of biology, animals themselves, psychology and animal behaviour etc. Has saved and improved quality of life of many animals, from livestock to pets to the wild animals that are taken to wildlife rehab centres when they're injured.
loads of feral cats around, ask the RSPCA - don't think they've seen a tin of Kittykat in their lives, and probably healthier for it... |
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quote: loads of feral cats around, ask the RSPCA - don't think they've seen a tin of Kittykat in their lives, and probably healthier for it...
I like your reasoning - so we wouldn't be able to have cats as pets as such, but we would still in theory have feral cats capable of killing for themselves. quote: would be nice to have a choice though, other than death, for those people, suffering lifethreatening illnesses, who prefer medication not tested on animals... and not haranguing by nincompoops because there is no choice...
So as not to take up the entire forum with this I'm going to continue this particular line of discussion on the other board rather than this one. (Don't see the point in repeating myself).  |
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quote: Originally posted by welfarist: quote: loads of feral cats around, ask the RSPCA - don't think they've seen a tin of Kittykat in their lives, and probably healthier for it...
I like your reasoning - so we wouldn't be able to have cats as pets as such, but we would still in theory have feral cats capable of killing for themselves. quote: would be nice to have a choice though, other than death, for those people, suffering lifethreatening illnesses, who prefer medication not tested on animals... and not haranguing by nincompoops because there is no choice...
So as not to take up the entire forum with this I'm going to continue this particular line of discussion on the other board rather than this one. (Don't see the point in repeating myself).
No, neither do I, Welfarist, as there is a thread available. I was merely responding in similar vein to you, who had mentioned vivisection. (With regard to cats, have you read some of the articles on the rubbish that goes into cat food - the lowgrade meat, the fillers, the rancid oils, and the preservatives - a bit like cheap pies for humans, only a lot worse. Any decent cat is better off mousing (unfortunately for the mouse). |
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