I think the point is about the dumbing down of the mainstream. particularly since the start of this century I would only consider a few of those (mostly) excellent films mainstream films, but still, Give me a series of Oz or Sopranos over the mighty bucket of monkey spunk that is Fight Club any day. An empty film, made emptier by it's self conscious style and the 'look how cool i am' performances.

quote:

Originally posted by Wicker Man:
I think the point is about the dumbing down of the mainstream. particularly since the start of this century I would only consider a few of those (mostly) excellent films mainstream films, but still, Give me a series of Oz or Sopranos over the mighty bucket of monkey spunk that is Fight Club any day. An empty film, made emptier by it's self conscious style and the 'look how cool i am' performances.

tHAT YOU kEISER ;-)

I'd take 'Fight Club' over any US telly programme - different strokes and all that? I think the mainstream dumbed down ages ago - what about Top Gun, Rambo II, Return of the Jedi, The Temple of Doom, most Arnie films, most sequels, Beverly Hills Cop, Flashdance, John Hughes' teen flicks, Days of Thunder, Cobra, Rocky 2,3, 4 & 5, Howard the Duck, Rain Man, Driving Miss Daisy, Francis Coppola's Bram Stoker's Dracula, Jurassic Park, Waterworld, The Postman, Independence Day, Pearl Harbor...and no doubt a mass more examples! The rot is often pointed to the twin spectres of Jaws and Stars Wars IV: A New Hope and how American cinema changed. I would never watch War of the Worlds or whatever franchise/remake didn't do as well as anticipated anyway - it doesn't mean I think American cinema is over. The mainstream is a boring place anyway...

I know, but it never used to be. The Godfather, Klute, The Deer Hunter. Chinatown. The Conversation. Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind. I know I'm just picking random films made over a long period there, but these were mainstream star vehicles and I just don't think films like these are being made anymore by the studios

And there is no Kieser Souza, Bobwallet, he's just a rumour.

I agree that New Hollywood cinema of the 60s & 70s was great - tragic that Robert Towne ended up writing Mission Impossible films! Of the films you choose there, all great apart from Close Encounters (which I find ponderous, but like 2001 and Blade Runner can see the appeal and that it's quite clever) - 'The Conversation' wasn't really mainstream though. Produced as a low-budget film between the Godfather films for the short-lived studio Coppola set up with Peter Bogdanovich and William Friedkin, it was a commercial flop, but a critical fave. The High-Concept ethos, or box-office-centric notions of Lucas and Spielberg make a film like that dead in the water...though 'Memento' isn't that far away, and that dire Tony Scott film 'Enemy of the State' nodded in that direction! It was kind of sad that Paramount went from making stuff like Chinatown and Reds to An Officer and a Gentlemen and Flashdance, but that can be summarised in two words: 'Gate' and 'Heaven's' !!

What happened to Michael Cimino anyway? I do have a particular love of the films of the Seventies, and yes its very difficult to view The Conversation as anything other than an arthouse piece of work, but It starred Gene Hackman fresh out of French Connection and Poseidon Adventure and Coppolla fresh out of The Godfather. It 'flopped' because there was an expectation of it being a mainstream hit. And the same two artists would not get the same film made today.

I also rate the films of the fifties above the cover version littered pop charts of the 21st century. Even the seemingly safe sci-fi B movies like Invasion of the Bodysnatchers and those of the popcorn genius Jack Arnold and westerns Like High Noon and Rio Bravo were burning with rage. A rage that had to be hidden which makes them even more fascinating to me and then back just a few years into the forties with the post war films that were deeply cynical and filled with hurt and quite frankly there has been no American film to compare to the narrative sophistication and harmony of Asphalt Jungle in 55 years.

the repeats of the first series of The Sopranos are on every night on More4. i'm watching now. It is just beautifully written

I realise this is for movies but watch Curb Your Enthusiasm on More 4 tonight if you can. It is just a joy to watch. Larry David is a short comedy genius

quote:

i think it because they not many good british writers

no...possibly more because english writers never get the chance...very few movies even are written by english writers...

besides i dont even like american tv - its pathetic

If British writers model themselves on American writers in TV land you've less chance of having another Dennis Potter and more chance of something MOR. 'The Sopranos' and even 'Twin Peaks' (the second series was mostly trousers, as was stuff by Lynch like 'Hotel Room' or Oliver Stone's excerable virtual reality nonsense) seem like an episode of 'Cagney & Lacey' compared to things like 'Pennies from Heaven', 'The Singing Detective' & 'Brimstone & Treacle'...It's a related issue, but I'd like those kind of writers/directors - Potter, Alan Clarke, Mike Leigh when he was more interesting ('Meantime') and stuff like 'Prick Up Your Ears' than imitations of American TV. I like the new Uncut DVD magazine, not bad for a first issue - but who cares about CSI directed by Tarantino? CSI is just Quincy with MTV-jump-cuts...

oops i mean tomorrow night

American TV is better than american Films at the mo

As bad as mainstream US cinema is (hasn't this mostly been the case for decades?), I'd take US cinema over TV series - though I've kind of made this point?

hey if anyone sees this that replayed to this forum before,

i've just realized that you are all raising the same questions as i am in my dissertation,

i was just wandering can i ask u few questions for my research.

reply.......plz...... if you see it and reading


thanks.....

american tv has saved some great actresses from disappearing cos of the dearth of roles for women in mainstream movies these days.

tv rules!

quote:

Originally posted by wiseblood:
If British writers model themselves on American writers in TV land you've less chance of having another Dennis Potter and more chance of something MOR. 'The Sopranos' and even 'Twin Peaks' (the second series was mostly trousers, as was stuff by Lynch like 'Hotel Room' or Oliver Stone's excerable virtual reality nonsense) seem like an episode of 'Cagney & Lacey' compared to things like 'Pennies from Heaven', 'The Singing Detective' & 'Brimstone & Treacle'...It's a related issue, but I'd like those kind of writers/directors - Potter, Alan Clarke, Mike Leigh when he was more interesting ('Meantime') and stuff like 'Prick Up Your Ears' than imitations of American TV. I like the new Uncut DVD magazine, not bad for a first issue - but who cares about CSI directed by Tarantino? CSI is just Quincy with MTV-jump-cuts...

u getting the kind of writing that potter did-playing with form, structure and non linear narrative- in cable shows like the sopranos, deadwood, mad men and 6ft under as well as network shows like heroes and lost.