I put it to you that with The X-Files, ER, The Sopranos, Oz, 24, The Shield, West Wing, 6 Feet Under, Deadwood and others that American TV drama over the last ten years has been (and continues to be) superior to what they've produced for the cinema... Discuss
Most things are better than American film drama - though I think I'd take 'The Aviator' over most US TV series - the ironic thing is most of those TV series base themselves on cinema, apart from 'Deadwood', there's not a single one that hasn't ran out of steam (though the last series of 'The Sopranos' was great) - why not list 'Desperate Housewives', 'The OC' or 'Sex & the City' - they epitomise US TV drama as much. Is it me, or is 'Six Feet Under' tedious and oh so pleased with itself? - give me Lars Von Trier or Kieslowski's 'Dekalog' anyday...Watching most US TV drama (I watch and enjoy, yet see the drawbacks of 'Lost') and then watching the three 'Heimat' series, I wonder why anyone cares what America is doing...
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Fair point but i'm talking about the things that are in the mainstream in particular. the extremes have always been and probably always will be more interesting to a minority of people but just looking at the quality of what occupies a culture's mainstream says a lot about where a society and is 'at' and I think its quite interesting that currently American mainstream cinema is at the toilet and its TV is, well, at the cinema. In fact there we have it. The movie studios are aiming to mimic crap TV Dramas like Dukes of hazzard and Charlies Angles and now friggin Dallas and the TV studios are aiming to mimic the standard of great movies like Goodfellas.
But what i guess I mean is that if there is a 'they' in Hollywood, then 'they' consider their minstream TV drama viewers a lot smarter than their mainstream cinema goers
By the way, obviously I'm not counting production values or the standard of special effects. I actually just mean in the quality of the writing, directing and acting. i know you never mentioned SFX Wiseblood, but I figured someone would sooner or later.
yes. Twin Peaks probably caused the shift in the first place which led to the landslide of barrier breaking that is The Sopranos. David Lynch creating a TV drama gave TV a sudden credibilty it had never had.
The difference here is that America tv drama have 20 hours of story-line which mean they can take there time but Films have time-limit usually 90-135minutes which mean they have more pressure to rush the story to fit the time-limit unfounatly.
what about buffy?a pretty dire film (although quite amusing in places) turned into one of the best written,most inventive dramas ever. the americans are definatley doing something right.
i want to know why british tv hasnt caught up yet!
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The difference here is that America tv drama have 20 hours of story-line which mean they can take there time but Films have time-limit usually 90-135minutes which mean they have more pressure to rush the story to fit the time-limit unfounatly.
No, I mean serialised drama has always had this advantage, but for fifty years cinema drama was always of a higher standard than TV drama, then some time over the last ten years that changed. Or has it? I'm just suggesting it has
ok, yes there been move mainly because demand for watching flims have gone down, 50 years ago there wasn't that many channels around then there is now so obviously thanks to technology the change has come about.
cinema
*action-flim- this has been done to death yet series like Alias keeps us wanting to watch it because it continuation
That's just one example of change, another would be society has changed, younger generation demand more then older generation. i'm sure in the not so distant future Cinema won't exist i predict this might happen 2010-2012.
younger generation demand more then older generation.
So why do they settle for less? People over 40 had a far superior film going experience than we do now. Mainstream cinema is aimed at a younger generation now which is the big reason why scripts and stories are so unsophisticated and dumb. So clearly the younger generation demands less from their films than the older generation. And, to repeat myself I'm talking specifically of writing, acting and direction. Technology is irrelevent to these things.
. Mainstream cinema is aimed at a younger generation now which is the big reason why scripts and stories are so unsophisticated and dumb. So clearly the younger generation demands less from their films than the older generation
when i meant demand more i should of been clear i was refering to Special-effects and stunts. the Older genartion now have a family so where do they have time to go to cinema,very rarely unlike under 25's who have freedom to visit cinema since they have no family responiablity. hence why movie producer are doing scripts and stories are so unsophisticated and dumb. since this is what they demand.
your point demand less is agreed in that sense, most movie goers want more SFX flim like harry potter- u can't call that unsophisticated since most adults enjoy it including older generation
Based on a article about relatively poor box office this year (especially over the summer).
The fact that many hollywood stars (and writers and directors) are now doing TV showa suggest that the film industry is suffering.
This coupled with endless remakes and sequels and lacklustre films in general adds to this.
Of course the big companies would like to whine about pircacy doing most of the damage...stops them having to have a good long look at the product the churn out.
yes, while Hollywood is recruiting pop video directors to tell their stories. Having said that I've loved Spike Jonze's films so far. maybe the problem is purely at script and commissioning level
You're right Kieser, but for every quality American TV Drama like Sopranos, X-Files or CSI, there are dozen's of rubbish ones, most of which we don't get to see over here.
It's all about hunting out quality. Just as C4, in their infinite wisdom, push Sopranos to the arse-end of the schedule, there are quality US film dramas, most of which don't get anywhere near the level of promotion that the film deserves.
How many people who paid to see Dukes of Hazzard will also pay to see Crash? It all comes down to money.
But you are right. One episode of Sopranos is better than 99% of all Hollywood films produced in a year.
yes, of course and there is still the occaisional great mainstream film coming out of America. the last great period though I'd say was 95-97. The Usual Suspects, Heat, Seven, LA Confidential, Grosse Pointe Blank all relased within, like 18 months of each other, but I think it's just the general balance seems to have tipped over the last, possibly ten, but definately five years.
fair point, Momento too, but i'd ask you to compare that list to the one for the ninties and then the eighties and if you're feeling very brave, the seventies. Again i'm not saying America can't produce great mainstream films anymore, or crap TV drama, just that the balance has tipped.
I think the notion put here is a little too black and white - sure most mainstream Hollywood product is poor, but there have been plenty of decent films to come out of the US since 1995:
*Dead Man *The Straight Story *The Thin Red Line *Elephant *Spartan *Smoke *Bully *The Funeral *Kids *Requiem for a Dream *Pi *The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou *O Brother, Where Art Thou? *Confessions of a Dangerous Mind *Nixon *Hard Eight *The Virgin Suicides *Rushmore *Crime & Punishment in Suburbia *Swingers *About Schmidt *Sideways *Mysterious Skin *Open Water *Donnie Darko *Boys Don't Cry *The Pledge *Things to Do In Denver When You're Dead *Happiness *Bulworth *Thirteen *Pollock *Three Kings *Gattaca *Leaving Las Vegas *Trees Lounge *Beautiful Girls *Ghost World *The Blair Witch Project *Affliction *A Simple Plan *Traffic *S>a>f>e *Animal Factory *Sling Blade *Magnolia *The Ice Storm *Jesus' Son *Dark City *Memento *Narc *Wonder Boys *I Shot Andy Warhol *The Aviator *Josie & the Pussycats (very subversive!) *Fight Club *Gangs of New York (I liked it!) *Lost in Translation *The Machinist *Gods & Monsters and so on
- any of which I'd take over most American TV, most of which I find entertaining, but would hardly want to watch a second time. Even things like 'Lost', which are great fun I don't think are as complex as people make out and I've found myself bored when watching the repeat show. Very few American TV dramas would make me watch them again as I would a film - I've watched the first series of Twin Peaks a few times, and
