First things first - there's not a single mention of Tony Wilson on the 4Music site. One of the top 5 most important people in the development of British popular music has died and Channel 4 deem "Ginger Sean from Eastenders" a more important topic to cover on their music site.
Whose fault is this?
Secondly; I have heard of all the bands covered by 4Music - surely they should be introducing new sounds to their audience instead of sitting back and letting publicists contact them to arrange coverage for whatever bunch of blowdried moppets they're herding this week..?
The dire nature of 4Music is reflected in this music board. No one really posts here anymore. A couple of years ago I used to post here, go elsewhere for a couple of minutes, come back, and see my post was now halfway down the page and twenty other threads had been posted in the interim period by people frantic to discuss music.
And now? There's a tangible lack of excitement in the subject matter and the writing on the 4Music site. It's tired. It screams "bedtime!" It's inspiring nobody. It's as if you've drifted into some stagnant backwater - and it's only while you're paddling, disheartened and jaded, with your bored paddles all floppy and listless, that you remember this is the same bunch who brought you The Tube.
Vomiting unicorns, Channel 4, what has happened? Where has the excitement gone? Can someone from Channel 4 send the chauffeur round with some answers please? And you can bring a job application too 'cos you need people who love music writing for you really rather urgently. I'll do it for ten grand a year and some crisps. Just get moving, chop chop.
Oh Lordy - here we go - so Channel 4's music coverage is bland and insipid like some dull sauce because there's no decent music around?
Is this because "with the easy access to instruments, computers and recording equipment, and the cynical way of the modern world, that everything, but everything has been tried by now" and "all there is left to do is tweak things a little"?
Yeah, Try Me - you wrote those words last month. I really hope you don't believe them. But even if you do, does it justify Channel 4's hugely uninspired music coverage?
Just this year the tubes in my brain have been left comprehensively rogered by the music of Von Sudenfed, Animal Collective, Black Moth Super Rainbow, Apparat, DJ C, Melt Banana, Kuduro Sound System and Mariee Sioux. You suggest the music world is in a bad state - may I suggest it's time to change your ways of finding new music? Try using Soulseek. It's free. Search for some obscure track you already have and love. When you find it, browse whatever tracks that person has and download anything you haven't heard of. You're left with 98% cack; 1% which you'll decide is cack after a few more listens; and 1% which will re-wire your whole head. I guarantee this. Try it.
One reason people think music which is innovative and fresh is not being made these days is because sites like 4Music clearly have no time for serious sonic exploration and choose instead to pepper their forums with unwanted and annoying pop-ups for 4X4s and other utterly inappropriate advertising which clearly shows they don't know their target audience or, indeed, care.
One more thing - it interests me that your sign-off (Mogg/Schenker/Way) refers to the 'classic' line-up of UFO. I used to love the Michael Schenker Group and rocked my schoolie socks off to "Rock Will Never Die" when I was 11. I hope your tastes are more eclectic now than mine were then. Listen to "Bambi's Dilemma" by Melt Banana and tell me what you think.
I feel really passionately that music is in fine ruddy health underneath the fast-flowing stream of effluent churned out by so many TV and radio stations. If my argument hasn't been convincing it's because I'm tired and I spent all day picking blackberries with my brother's annoying children before losing at Scrabble to his tedious Christian friends and all I want to do is sit in the garden and watch the shooting stars listening to Josephine Foster with a mug of hibiscus tea, yum yum, hooray.
These are the artists mentioned on the 4Music homepage: Amy Winehouse KT Tunstall Babyshambles Kate Nash Field Day Kano Robyn Ghosts Kanye West Ben's Brother Girls Aloud Paul Potts Laura Veirs Goldspot Fergie Rihanna Beyonce Timbaland Ne-Yo and 5 unsigned bands.
This is supermarket rock. These are overwhelmingly artists whose CDs are purchased at Sainsbury's (Ben's Brother even feature on a Sainsbury's advert) by Simply Red fans who don't care about barriers being broken down in music.
There are two mildly interesting, leftfield artists here - Laura Veirs and Kano. The Laura Veirs link leads to a woefully short interview with her, conducted months ago, during which she is asked "What one thing do you wish other people would stop doing?" and "Is there anything you'd like that could make your life better?" Good grief. This is what-colour-are-your-socks style journalism from the Smash Hits school for lazy hacks. And remember what happened to Smash Hits?
A link scrolls across the middle of the screen proclaiming "Earn cash for your views on music..." This leads to another screen and another link which leads to a third screen which says "Channel 4 music research - the survey is now closed". The survey has been closed for days and days and days. What is the original link still doing there, then?
Lazy, 4Music, lazy.
Then there is the interview with "Britain's Got Talent" winner Paul Potts which revolves entirely around the fact his surname is Potts. this staggers belief. "Which is best, your album or Harry Potter?" If this interview was on CBeebies a nation of toddlers would switch off in embarrassment.
Stupid, embarrassing, boring and lazy.
And so to the 'unsigned' section. There are five acts: 1. The Hollow sound like Secret Garden. 2. Adult Cinema sound like Mika covering a Supertramp B-side. 3. Penny Broadhurst lifts the music of ELO's "Mr. Blue Sky", wholesale, without replacing the lyrics and melody with anything half as memorable. 'Her' song is called "London". 4. Love Jones sound like a Dodgy tribute band. 5. Parallel produce plodding "eastern-influenced" dance 'vibes'. They have recorded a track called "Eastern Promise." Their work has been on compilations called "Cafe Ibiza" and "Future Chill". It is lamentable. I forgot what their track went like WHILE IT WAS STILL PLAYING.
Of the unsigned bands, at least 3 out of 5 are London-based. How lazy is this? Your universe might revolve around London, 4Music. Your audience's doesn't.
Channel 4, take note: 4Music is deeply boring. It's irrelevant. Above all, it's unbelievably LAZY.
Ahem. I just found and read the "Channel 4 Statement of Policy 2007". Here's what it says:
"Channel 4 in 2007 intends... to avoid taking the easy option" "It will take risks in subject matter" "Arts and Music: Channel 4 will continue... with the highest quality and widest range of subject matter" "Channel 4 will continue to seek the greatest possible feedback from viewers".
The one positive thing about this thread is that there only seems to be the one forum member who is so furious at the coverage given on 4music.
I think to suggest that the writers of 4music do not love music is a little harsh. Just because the artists Cousin Teresa mentions above are not covered does not mean we are not passionate about music, it just means we are passionate about different music and to suggest that a site is lazy because it does not reflect your interests 100% is a little narrow minded! We are very passionate about what we write, it just seems that in this instance, our music tastes are very different to that of Cousin Teresa.
The reference to 'Smash Hits' is one we take as a compliment - so thank you very much. Smash Hits was a pioneering youth magazine which brought energy and humour into music journalism. There are plenty of other music publications on the internet and in your local newsagent where you will find journalists asking 'What's your new album about?', 'Did you enjoy recording it?' and 'How did you come up with your name?' and we are proud to take a different approach to the artists we interview.
Plus, to suggest that artists such as Robyn, Kate Nash, Timbaland, Kanye West, Amy Winehouse and even Girls Aloud are pushing the boundaries of music is a bit short sighted. Each of these are artists who represent some of the most intelligent and ruddy wonderful pop music of the moment.
If Robyn, Kate Nash, Timbaland, Kanye West, Amy Winehouse and Girls Aloud represent the pinnacle of modern music then it's not really right to blame C4... it's not them who invented this rubbish; in fact I congratulate them for their rather limited coverage as it keeps this kind of rubbish of my television.
'New Music' is becoming a cursed word and at the same time a genre all of it's own. Look at The Hoosiers, Pigeon Detectives even The Fratellis, The View, The Twang... All of which have achieved massive success very quickly but all of which have slipped from the mind as soon as another band making new music raches the Top Ten. The interest that being dubbed as 'new music' can bring is fleeting and while a lot of bands championed as new music will continue to find success, a lot will fall by the wayside.
Plus, what's wrong with old music?
There is, obviously, a place for new music on 4Music. We've got the amazing Kyte on the homepage and The Whip, who we featured ages ago have recently signed a major record deal and are finishing off their debut album.
We aim to bring you the best in new music but we can't ignore 'old music' - people like Robyn, Babyshambles, Kate Nash, people you may or may not like as artists but who are making music which is innovative and should not be ignored by us.
My arguement isn’t so much that there is no good music around - some of the artists you mention make good music. My point is that there is no new music around. The bands you quote show that you have a varied and healthy taste in music but my point is that none of it is new or fresh or groundbreaking – it has all been done:
thats actually a valid point that i didnt pick up on before. genuine originality is pretty much impossible at least for the minute. as good as the mars volta are, theyre not doing anything new in the slightest, no band or artist is really, theyre all influenced by previous forms, AS HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE CASE
in my opinion, originality is an overrated delusion anyway. perhaps you should just look for 'good' music rather than 'new' music, or 'groundbreaking' music, because theres really no such thing. just go for what appeals to you.
i think music is going through that phase that classical music went through in its dying days having exhausted every chord progression and melody there is, it split off into alot of into different forms,went very avant garde and alternate tuning, using woodchippers as instruments etc, western music was only 'saved' then by foreign influences, new technologys etc.
some people do like the avant garde though and just because you want orignality in the form of the same crap over and over doesnt mean what others enjoy is just tuneless garbage. some of you need to open your minds.
as for 4music, yes, it sucks horribly, im not intrested in robyns favourite breakfast cereal, whoefver robyn is! and its not a quirky fresh approach to music journalism either. but i dont really care enough i guess, i only really find good music here in the form of recommends from a minority of forum members. apart from that i just come here to vent my enormous ego now and again.
I’ve just returned from two weeks caving in the French mountains – magic - and found there’s been some very tall talk behind my holidaying back…!
First, thanks for replying. Unfortunately you didn’t do so for over 9 days, which proves to everyone that you don’t read the boards you supposedly edit with anything like the regularity you should if you’re in any way interested in keeping up with what your readers think. The fact you left broken links on 4Music’s main page for weeks and weeks after it was pointed out via this board simply confirms this.
You seem to take consolation in your opinion that “there only seems to be the one forum member who is so furious at the coverage given on 4music.” Have you not read the other posts in this thread? Look: “This needed to [be] said... 4Music is dying on its sorry behind” (prolix); “rather limited coverage” (Wobbletastic); “as for 4Music, yes, it sucks horribly” (DraketheFakell).
If we take the date of the last post on page 1 of a board as an indicator of that board's popularity, we see that the 4Music board is less popular than the boards for Richard & Judy, Paul O'Grady, Deal Or No Deal, TV Soaps and - good grief - even the board for Carole from Big Brother. Does that make you feel proud? Because, if you're honest with yourself, you'll admit it represents an enormous failure, and proof, as if any were needed, that you are emphatically not inspiring people to discuss music.
You mention bands that have “slipped from the mind as soon as another band making new music raches (sic) the Top Ten”; well, what are you hanging around the top ten for? A scan around 4Music reveals you seem to inhabit a netherworld of corporate sponsorship and publicists’ freebies. Instead of being a John Peel and going out hunting for new music to educate and excite people about, you are instead a bit of a Bruno Brookes, sitting back smugly and letting the major record companies do all the work for you. 4Music currently seems like an afterthought. “Will this do?” No. It won’t. It’s really, really pathetic. I urge you to remember that you should be writing for all age groups and preferences, not just chart-loving teenagers.
As the editor of 4Music you have been handed a stunning mandate which makes you the envy of every serious music fan. It is not ‘4ChartMusic’. It’s not ‘4SupermarketMusic’. It’s ‘4Music’. That gives you free reign to broadcast and write about all areas of music. Remember the Channel 4 Statement of Policy 2007 (“"Arts and Music: Channel 4 will continue... with the highest quality and widest range of subject matter")? You’re not coming within a thousand miles of that. How I wish that 4Music exhibited the same range, in-depth coverage and passion shown by serious music sites such as Pitchfork, Earplug, Paper Thin Walls, etc. and even by music mail order sites such as Boomkat and Aquarius Records.
I feel so passionately about this because as a little kid I remember the early days of Channel 4 and the sound of cobwebs being blown away by a hurricane of breathtaking music television, and therefore I feel loyal to your channel. It was simply stunning to see artists like Lee ‘Scratch’ Perry, Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan and The Fall on the telly. Music coverage on Channel 4 was forward-thinking, educational, exciting and truly barrier-breaking. Today it is little more than a marketing initiative; a quest for money. “Look at us! We’ve got the exclusive new video from ________ (insert name of major record company livestock here)!” Oh dear. You’ve really taken your eyes off the ball. More than anything, in terms of music coverage, Channel 4 has truly lost its mantle as guardian of all things leftfield and underground. Does it “take risks in subject matter” (that Statement of Policy again)? No. It really, really doesn’t. I can feel my loyalty to Channel 4 swiftly eroding.
Please, let’s have a much, much wider coverage of all forms of music. Keep the disposable pop, of course – but please stop just hanging around the charts like a fourteen-year-old outside an off-licence. There’s more, so much more than that. Let’s have many more downloadable mp3s, please, and more, longer, blog-style articles. You have the power to give people dynamic, insightful, wide-ranging coverage of music.
You could write about the recent Underage Festival and the history of kiddie-pop (from Musical Youth to Shell and through to current Bowie-endorsed preteens The Tiny Masters of Today). You could write about Thomas Mapfumo in exile in Paris and do a piece on the struggles faced by Zimbabwean musicians, and African protest music in general. You could do a piece on how Brian Wilson has inspired so many of the bands that have sprung up since he wrote his classic Beach Boys material (the marvellous Animal Collective; The Shins; Panda Bear; Seabear; The Flaming Lips, etc.). You could take the new live 2CD from Nick Cave’s favourite singer, the late Karen Dalton, as a cue to do a long piece about the naturalismo/freak folk scene, tracing it back to Shirley Collins/Vashti Bunyan/Incredible String Band/Linda Perhacs/the Wicker Man soundtrack and bringing it forward to the present day with Iron & Wine, Devendra Banhart, Joanna Newsom, Mariee Sioux, Josephine Foster, Espers, Feathers, etc. And with new dubstep labels starting up at the rate of roughly three a second, let’s have a big overview of this mysterious genre, with lots of juicy interviews and mp3s.
I am sorry if you have less editorial power than I have assumed you do; if this is the case I would be most willing to print off a copy of this thread and post it to the head of Channel 4, Julian Bellamy, and see if he will green-light any positive changes. Please reply and tell me what you think of what I’ve written.
In the meantime, if any board member reading this has an opinion, please chime in with your own tuppence. I know I’m not the only person who feels like this - but if 4Music is everything you’re looking for, you must say so too!
One more thing: I downloaded the Envelopes mixtape from 4Music. It was alright. See - it’s not all bad!
Originally posted by CousinTeresa: In the meantime, if any board member reading this has an opinion, please chime in with your own tuppence.
Last time I did that it was deleted . Which is a shame because it was a well thought out piece of writing which I'm sure you would have enjoyed. The mods obviously don't know a good intelligent arguement when they see it.
Again, I would like to echo the sentiments of Cousin Teresa. I'll try and contribute something more substantial than this pathetic footnote at a later date.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Down with the conscious illiterati.
Tramps like us.....and we like tramps. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cousin Teresa, I think you've said it all. Very well put, too.
I'd like to know if the forums are always going to close beyond 12am now......I thought it would revert to the way it always was after Big Brother finished, but we're still being prevented from posting in the early hours when we want to. It's killing the forums for some of us.
Originally posted by 4Music Ed: The one positive thing about this thread is that there only seems to be the one forum member who is so furious at the coverage given on 4music.
bull. I agree with her wholeheartedly. It is supermarket music. repetitive and puts me to sleep at work.
tis why I always change the radio station over to something else.
-- LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLEEEE smackdown. tomorrow night at 8:00 --
Originally posted by Fizzwizzle: Modern music is complete crud.
When did this happen? And what decade would you like it to be?
I have been reading some of the things you've written in the past, including:
thats mild compared to some of the things he's said in other forums "...it really annoys me to find the charts full of idiots that wouldn't know a C# from an F, and would have no idea at all about where to find a note on a piano or guitar etc"; "...modern art... is in fact a pile of junk"; "Hip Hop isn't music; it's just an idiot talking over a backing track..... they look like criminals! ...before they even consider jumping round and waving their arms about like fairies they should concentrate on trying to sing."
. Which is a shame because it was a well thought out piece of writing which I'm sure you would have enjoyed. The mods obviously don't know a good intelligent arguement when they see it.
