anyone watching the Seven Ages of rock series?

AKA. Top Ten Stadium Rock/Punk/metal etc. rebadged.

Charles Shaar Murray's pomposity got too much in the punk one so i switched off.

caught a bit of the stadium rock one, journo talking heads still annoying.

all these journos give the impression that they wished they were rock stars themselves.
you can just imagine them holding court in some pub in soho-

"oh , dahhling, fabulous to see you- did you catch the arctics on Later with Jools? weren't they frightfully good?"

Like any music journo...those who can't, write.

It cracked me up how they presented an hour-long history of heavy metal without mentioning AC/DC (or Blue Cheer).

compiling the clichés so far-

"and then, he came along, and it was like, wow..."

"when x came along, that was it. the rulebook was torn up and thrown out the window..."

"and then I went to see x, and I was blown away...."

quote:

Originally posted by CousinTeresa:
It cracked me up how they presented an hour-long history of heavy metal without mentioning AC/DC (or Blue Cheer).

Personally I would argue that AC/DC are (hard)rock more than metal.

But seeing as they are responsible for the biggest selling rock album of all time one would hope they might get some sort of mention.

Then again, I don't know what I'm holding out for with this series.

I saw the adverts, starting with Hendrix and thought...it will probably be nothing new but worth a look, then I realised that in the advert Pete Doherty was mentioned...

It's not the pretentious music journos I have a problem with, more the lame nature of the programme. The ages they identify don't hang together, the use of unsubtitled archive footage borrowed from other docus is lazy (& they don't tie in with the contemporary interviews), and the metal one veered off into the soap opera that is Ozzy Osbourne's life. Sabbath are hugely important, but his solo career ain't...watching that made me wonder if this was for the US market?

I dislike the way things were lumped together - whether it was according significance to things that weren't significant (Jimi doing Like a Rolling Stone or Sgt Pepper), implying Jim Morrison was dead when showing/discussing the Isle of Wight festival he played at that time with the Doors, or just using footage from the ZOO TV in Australia video. It all seems very lazy. There has been the odd nice bit of footage, the art one almost worked, but the list of acts being sidelined by this pedestrian take on it all is getting longer. Why start with Jimi anyway?

The only positive is that after crap like Ozzy solo and Motley Crue, Metallica sounded good and should probably be featured in the episode showing folk like Black Flag, Husker Du and the Replacements. Which I'm sure will irritate me...

I haven't seen all of the series, but it is slapdash, lazy, and generally, one to miss...

Blizzard of Oz was important, then you can dump Ozzy with the rest of the hair metal garbage of the 80's.

I had the exact opposite feelings of Metallica, it just, the I appreciate the form of that show was to highlight how 'metal - though never in fashion is never out of fashion' simply by concentrating on Metallica/Bob Rock missed out a great deal of what 'made' Metallica, ie. When they were actually great.

didn't bother watching last night.

I'm guessing a journo spouted off "and then Kurt came along, and it was like-.....wow. he wiped the slate clean".

quote:

Originally posted by Vanilla Ice:
didn't bother watching last night.

I'm guessing a journo spouted off "and then Kurt came along, and it was like-.....wow. he wiped the slate clean".

Actually, they interviewed Prince Charles about how Kurt Cobain had been responsible for the rise of potato blight in the Outer Hebrides in 1992, and the way in which the B-side to "Heart-Shaped Box" had influenced Camilla Parker-Bowles to experiment with injecting bicarbonate of soda into her left ankle in an attempt to reduce Zimbabwean inflation rates. Then we saw Krist Novoselic and the drummer out of Black Flag get infected with rabies and crushed under a huge sculpture of Karnkel the god of the hedgehogs. You missed a good one.

Looking forward to that Sky+ recording now!

the series should end with Charles Shaar Murray getting a custard pie in the face.

when Beavis & Butthead hosted "I love 1993", Butthead asked about all the talking heads spouting BS- "who are these people?"
Beavis "someone should tell them to shut up".

Butthead "yeah, shut up, fartknocker".

they should get Beavis & Butthead to comment instead.

A review of this past weeks programme suggests there was very little self-flagulating comments and more focus on interviews with the people and concert footage.

I've been quite disappointed with it so far and I have yet to see the most recent show about college/alt rock, but going by the previous shows I expect no mention of Camper Van Beethoven even though they virtually invented the (sub)genre.

I was going to archive them all on dvd but now I can't be ar$ed.

Did anyone see Punk: Attitude on More4 the other night? Better than most punk docs, it actually mentioned the likes of James Chance and the Contortions and Teenage Jesus as well as the usual. Some nice footage too rather than the same old stuff. Particularly enjoyed the live footage of The Pop Group. Plus they managed to get some people to talk to them who don't usually do these things like Howard Devoto and Poly Styrene. Henry Rollins knows his onions too it would seem.

Better than most all told and it didn't just follow the same path that so many punk docs seem to follow - it took some interesting diversions along the way and carried on beyond 1979. I enjoyed it more than I expected too.

Hold on, Gukumatz, Camper Van Beethoven "invented alt rock"? Was this around the same time Rick Astley invented isolationist ambient?

quote:

Originally posted by CousinTeresa:
Hold on, Gukumatz, Camper Van Beethoven "invented alt rock"? Was this around the same time Rick Astley invented isolationist ambient?

Sorry I don't really understand your point through all the sarcasm but I'm guessing that you're questioning my statement.
Basically yes, Camper Van Beethoven invented 'Alt. Rock' and if you're aware of its roots you would also know this to be true.
I'm not saying there weren't other bands around at the same time progressing music forwards, Husker Du were formed earlier than CVB but their roots were firmly in Post-Punk and their music was very much in a standard rock formula. REM formed before CVB as well, but again they began as a Post-Punk band and took their influences from similar sources.
CVB broke away from these standard influences when they formed by taking widely diverse styles of music and blending them together in a way that had never been done before, thereby inventing the genre of music known as 'Alt. Rock'.

Maybe you should use less sarcasm and more debate in your future posts.

quote:

Originally posted by Gukumatz:
Maybe you should BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

Ooh, get you.

'Alt rock' is a term, dear. A really stupid one at that. Saying Camper Van Beethoven "invented alt rock" is like saying Catullus invented chick lit, ie. pointless and not a little pompous.

quote:

Originally posted by CousinTeresa:

quote:

Originally posted by Gukumatz:
Maybe you should BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

Ooh, get you.

'Alt rock' is a term, dear. A really stupid one at that. Saying Camper Van Beethoven "invented alt rock" is like saying Catullus invented chick lit, ie. pointless and not a little pompous.

Funny, you claim my post is pompous and yet you have the audacity to replace my quote with "blah blah blah blah", demonstrating that you're incapable of debating the claims I made in it.

I'm aware 'Alt. Rock' is a term, though whether it's 'a stupid one' is open to interpretation and yet the BBC deemed it important enough to dedicate a show to it. If you don't like the term and have no wish to discuss it then kindly stop flaming my posts, especially considering you clearly know very little about the subject.

Drawing comparisons with Catullus' erotic poetry and chick-lit has gone over my head I'm afraid, the connection is so tenuous as to virtually not exist and just shows your own pomposity.

Tell you what, I'll modify my comment by saying that Camper Van Beethovens debut album Telephone Free Landslide Victory was the recording that defined the sub-genre known as Alt. Rock.

Ooh, get you, backatchya.

This is like Teenage fanclub inventing grunge all over again.

But less fun.

You need more than one band for a scene.

quote:

Originally posted by proIix:
This is like Teenage fanclub inventing grunge all over again.

But less fun.

LOL

Tonight's "Seven Ages" (indie edition) made some good points:

1. The Smiths held up as the best of the bunch

2. Suede were hugely exciting in their first flush... something about those tumbling guitar lines (although how did we tolerate that flouncing fop Brett Anderson?)

3. "Wonderwall" by Oasis spawned a whole wretched litter of hugely dull, corporate power ballad bands (Travis, Coldplay etc.)

But:

4. Oasis were never part of the indie firmament. They were pub rock, existing somewhere on the line between Status Quo and Slade (but without the intellectual content)

5. The Libertines? Less important than Gay Dad (or Camper Van Beethoven).

quote:

Originally posted by Gukumatz:

quote:

Originally posted by CousinTeresa:
Hold on, Gukumatz, Camper Van Beethoven "invented alt rock"? Was this around the same time Rick Astley invented isolationist ambient?

Sorry I don't really understand your point through all the sarcasm but I'm guessing that you're questioning my statement.
Basically yes, Camper Van Beethoven invented 'Alt. Rock' and if you're aware of its roots you would also know this to be true.
I'm not saying there weren't other bands around at the same time progressing music forwards, Husker Du were formed earlier than CVB but their roots were firmly in Post-Punk and their music was very much in a standard rock formula. REM formed before CVB as well, but again they began as a Post-Punk band and took their influences from similar sources.
CVB broke away from these standard influences when they formed by taking widely diverse styles of music and blending them together in a way that had never been done before, thereby inventing the genre of music known as 'Alt. Rock'.

Maybe you should use less sarcasm and more debate in your future posts.

Oh dear. As much as I like the odd Camper Van Beethoven track, I can't see how this vast claim can be made for them. They were a quirky college rock band, hardly a new thing. They were formed in 1983, so that was after Violent Femmes, The Wipers, Sonic Youth, X, The Replacements, Swans, Husker Du, Pere Ubu, Theoretical Girls, Black Flag, REM, The Dream Syndicate, Pylon, Teenage Jesus & the Jerks, Circle Jerks, etc etc. The whole US alt scene had roots in all prior movements, from Stooges/MC5 garage rock, to punk, to post punk, to something like No Wave. Husker Du from Zen Arcade onwards deserve a lot of credit for emphasising melody/songwriting, their cover of Eight Miles High key, as well as records by Embrace and Rites of Spring.

CVB...you may as well say the same of They Might Be Giants. I mean, Chronic Town by REM was 1981 and that has lots of the US alt stuff? What about all the US bands, from Wipers to Squirrel Bait, to Minor Threat, who were all influenced by Wire? Violent Femmes debut was released the same year that CVB were formed - how does that figure in things? What about The Gun Club, whose Fire of Love is key in the scheme of things, leading towards The Pixies, which in turn went towards Nirvana? Beat Happening? Pussy Galore? Butthole Surfers? Dead Kennedys (who weren't just punk, but were very musically inventive)? Rocket from the Tombs? The Cramps? Chrome? DNA? Mars? Minutemen? Television? Big Star? The Velvets? The Stooges? The Dead Boys? The Feelies (see 1979's The Good Earth)? Talking Heads? Jonathan Richman and The Modern Lovers? The dbs? Jason and the Scorchers? American Music Club?

What about the British acts cited by many US bands, from Wire and The Clash, to Gang of Four and The Pop Group, and the mighty Fall? Am not sure any one band or record could be cited, the US scene, as something like Punk Attitude pointed out, developed in the underground era after the US version of punk, in an indie ghetto, and then went overground with Nirvana. That's quite a few records, and as Punk Attitude showcased, there were acts that were of influence who didn't manage many/any records - whoever that band was cited by Jello Biafra as an influence on Dead Kennedys...

The birth of alt rock...would have to be a list, something like:

*White Light/White Heat, The Velvet Underground
*The First Fugs Album
*We're Only In It for the Money, Mothers of Invention
*Philosophy of the World, The Shaggs
*Trout Mask Replica/Clear Spot, Captain Beefheart
*Silver Apples
*The Stooges/Funhouse, The Stooges
*Kick Out the Jams/Back in the USA, The MC5
*#1 Record, Big Star
*New York Dolls
*Easter Everywhere, The 13th Floor Elevators
*Nuggets (compilation)
*Little Johnny Jewel (single), Television
*Piss Factory (single), Patti Smith
*The Modern Lovers
*The Day...Rocket from the Tombs
*Blank Generation/Love Comes in Spurts, Richard Hell and the Voidoids
*77/More Songs About..., Talking Heads
*Jocko Homo/Mongoloid (Booji Boy versions), Devo
*Metal Machine Music, Lou Reed
*Suicide (1st album), Suicide
*anything by Flipper of Negative Approach
*California Uber Alles, Too Drunk, Holiday in Cambodia (singles), Dead Kennedys
*The Modern Dance/Dub Housing, Pere Ubu
*Los Angeles, X
*D7, The Wipers
*My War, Black Flag
*Zen Arcade/Eight Miles High/New Day Rising/Flip Your Wigetc, Husker Du
*Chronic Town to Fables of the Reconstruction of the Fables, REM
*The Good Earth, The Feelies
*Jamboree, Beat Happening (...the Olympia scene, anyone? anyone?)
*Double Nickels on the Dime, Minutemen
*Bad Moon Rising, Evol, Sister, Sonic Youth
*Violent Femmes/Hallowed Ground, Violent Femmes
*I against I, Bad Brains
*Crazy, Pylon
*II/Up on the Sun, Meat Puppets
*Let It Be (album)/Left of the Dial (single), The Replacements
*etc

and that then goes onto bands like Melvins, Dinosaur Jr, Mudhoney, Pussy Galore etc into the 1990s. CVB were there, but I don't see them deserving to be singled out as a primary influence, or one of thse bands who deserve to be singled out. Their quirky sound recalled The Feelies and Jonathan Richman, so why not give them the credit? Zappa? Roky Erikson? Sweeping stuff, so thumbs down, if you dig that debate?????

^Aye, 'e knows!