Second to the Romans I like Industrial Archaeology, so I did enjoy this one. Mind you, I was transfixed with the continuity... it seemed to me that on one day one Mike had an old tee shirt with hole in, then on day two it was a nice white one without hole, then still on day two, he appeared to have changed back into day one's tee shirt... sorry, had to mention that in case I was wrong!!
I like Helen, she's enthusiastic and, for me anyway, fills the gap left by Carenza.
I liked Helen she is very good, and i was screeming about the bricks from out in the kitchen within 5 mins of the start When i saw the arch that was the water wheel pit i was thinking of all thoese Fred Dibnah programs with water wheels as a lot seem to have arches on the side walls of the wheel pits. Didnt like the content much ... but that's me!
without the protestant reformation and the industrial revolution this nation would have remained an significant catholic backwater like Portugal or Greece?
Wasn't sure what to expect of tonight's programme, since the industrial programmes struggle and they appeared to know a lot already, but I quite enjoyed it. The expansion of the investigation to the dwellings and the exploration of the cellar in the shop brought the social aspect that it needed. The fact that they discovered the water wheel and the engine location right at the end helped. As did Tony's taunting of the experts when the wheel was not where it was supposed to be!
Whilst no one can replace Carenza (or anyone else) since everyone has their own strengths, from the first few programmes I think Helen is good as a regular member of team.
Why didn't they just check the 1841 census to determine how many people really did live in the Angel Street property rather than speculating? Or was that damaged along with the 1851 census? It just seemed to me that the "grim up North" approach from Helen seemed a bit overdone, bearing in mind that conditions elsewhere were just as bad and not confined to mill workers.
The subject was not my cup of tea, but I loved that chap's breathless enthusiasm when they found where the engine had been sited.
I also found Francis Pryor's and Guy's presence rather surprising (although not unwelcome) in this programme!
Fortuitous that it was still under a car-park and not a load of buildings - does anyone know what happenned to the site afterwards - was it about to be developed? As far as personalities are concerned, for me Francis is always a poor substitute for Mick and Guy's appearance was too fleeting. I thought Helen Geake's contribution was very light - just reiterating "how grim it must have been". No, apart from Tony's admirable level-headedness as the man-in-the-street task-master of the academics, the real star was Brigid. Not only had she largely unearthed the entire cellar dwelling in a few hours, but she also doubled as coin concervationist (admittedly probably post-shoot)! She put the perplexed nail-biters at the edge of the wheel pit to shame. And was that hole confirmed as the wheel pit? The programme ended with this as its happy conclusion but it came from a very off-the-cuff evaluation from the Uni. of Manc. guy.
Originally posted by Jenni: .......... It just seemed to me that the "grim up North" approach from Helen seemed a bit overdone, bearing in mind that conditions elsewhere were just as bad and not confined to mill workers.
Quite, it wasn't just confined to the northern industrial areas.
quote:
I also found Francis Pryor's and Guy's presence rather surprising (although not unwelcome) in this programme!
Me too, and no mention of ritual, or votive offerings
........................................................................ Support the PAS Go with the FLO
Originally posted by Bugzy: .........>>The real star was Brigid. Not only had she largely unearthed the entire cellar dwelling in a few hours, but she also doubled as coin concervationist<<...
And all without scratching her red nail polish
........................................................................ Support the PAS Go with the FLO
Originally posted by Bugzy: .........>>The real star was Brigid. Not only had she largely unearthed the entire cellar dwelling in a few hours, but she also doubled as coin concervationist<<...
And all without scratching her red nail polish
I think you'll find it was the JCB did most of the cellar unearthing, not Brigid's fingernails!
I remember someone involved with TT, saying on here (a few years ago), that certain members of the team only got in a trench when the cameras were on them.
........................................................................ Support the PAS Go with the FLO
Originally posted by maesi: i think helen should have read mrs gaskell's north and south or mary barton for a concise social comment on how the poor cotton workers lived
I agree. Also, one commentator was too young to have ever gone into a mill workers home, before they were finally pulled down in the 1960s. If she'd been able to, she would have known that the stone flagged floor belonged to the kitchen and the bigger room was the 'living room'!
Originally posted by B@sil: Not convinced by the claim that Manchester was the birthplace of the industrial revolution, but this was nevertheless an important site.
How people lived in such squalor and kept their sanity, I shall never know.
Being a Mancunian and interested in it's history, I can assure you that the Angel Street area was a notoriously bad slum, far worse than many others in the area and even in Salford. Remember, life was far tougher and people were therefore far tougher then. No NHS! Disease took its terrible toll because of the poverty and its effects, both of which just wouldn't be acceptable today. Humour was used a lot to deal somewhat with the intolerable situations endured by people and still is apart of the Northern attitude to life. There are quite a few books written, describing the poverty that people lived in; Hobsons Choice, Love on the Dole etc.
Originally posted by TimeTeamFan: There are quite a few books written, describing the poverty that people lived in; Hobsons Choice, Love on the Dole etc.
Boys from the black stuff.
A lot of the weaker people were killed off by the desease's leaving the more resistant and fitter. (natural selection) And you had to laugh at stuff or you would end up under a train... or drunk.
I don’t subscribe to the theory that you had to be tough to live in certain areas, or that because you lived in poverty, that somehow made you tough. I believe it was purely a matter of survival, whether you worked in a factory, down a coal mine, or on a fishing boat in the North Sea. It wasn’t only people who lived in the industrial midlands who had a hard life.
Why is it that people like to have this “tough” label applied to themselves and their environment , and wear it like a badge of honour ?
........................................................................ Support the PAS Go with the FLO
You mean, Alan, you're not impressed by the "when I were a lad..." conversation? I think every generation suffers from thinking they had it harder than the next and in many respects it's probably true. But that's from the same people who in the next breath say how much better/friendlier life was when they were growing up!
I think we should bear in mind that each generation just got on with it and made the best of what they had. It's only in more recent years with media depictions of different lifestyles that we've become more of a world of "I want" and "it's not fair".
