Watched this one with interest last night. My own conclusion was that it showed neither metal detectorists or archaeologists in a particularly favourable light. Shouldn't more have been made of the portable antiquities scheme to encourage detectorists to report their finds?

What did you other MD's think?

See my comment (And others) under the thread - New special - Monday 14 January, 8PM. I agree with you about the PAS though - if we could all trust each other and work together, this island could reveal some massive history - I love having my finds identified by my FLO and had it not been for her, I wouldn't have got involved in the Codnor Castle Dig! Detectorists like the two highlighted (Long timers) are still scared to reveal find spots - and in some respects I can't blame them - they are frightened of Archaeologists, or much worse, Nighthawkers losing them access to the site!

Some good responses on the other thread. The programme did give out a mixed signal (no pun intented). There is a fine line to walk when digging for such items and for sure there will always be a temptation for some to see vast sums of money for their efforts rather than being phlegmatic and happy with being able to share their exciting finds with a wider audience through a mseum etc. There was one such comment from a female detectorist in the programme.

Sadly on the whole this programme may have put out too many negatives and not enough positives.

Not much I can add to either of your posts really
Tony Robinson left thing up in the air, which I
think was unnecessary. A word from the the PAS
outlining their work, wouldn't have gone amiss.

There's a first, an archaeology programme that made me angry. These two guys were only in it for one thing and that was cash. They had no interest in the archaeology or the historical context in which the items were found. Tony Robinson tried to make a balanced programme but these which is fair enough but he shied away from asking difficult questions to both sides. The archaeologists just tried to be dimplomatic and the metal detectors were evasive, arrogant and greedy.

It seems this episode has certainly provoked some debate - there's a lively discussion going on over on the Britarch list too
www.jiscmail.ac.uk/britarch

Did not enjoy this episode at all. Too much talk and not enough action.

The sad reality is, society has become so materialistic, that the past will be lost forever as more roads and houses and office blocks are built.

Money speaks volumes and the two guys last night had their volume buttons full on.

Someone, somewhere needs to promote the past as much as possible and the leeches that prey on the past (detectorists) need to be regulated much harder.

Here endeth the lesson.

quote:

Originally posted by SIMONKG:

Someone, somewhere needs to promote the past as much as possible and the leeches that prey on the past (detectorists) need to be regulated much harder.

Here endeth the lesson.

I don't think we need uninformed lessons such as that.

Look, maybe I was a bit OTT with my observations.

However, all the two guys were interested in last night was to protect their pension fund.

7000 finds in 'their' field!!

The lesson is hard but we live in a selfish society I am afraid.

You aren't alone in your views. The problem in the way this programme was presented, and very carefully edited, is that the general public who know little about metal detecting and nothing about the PAS, will take it all at face value.

I think Tony Robinson is getting the reaction he hoped for. I bet he's really pleased with himself

I'd take that chip off your shoulder and re-watch it if you thought Tony was disrespectful to detectorists.

quote:

The problem in the way this programme was presented

Two detectorists spend 12 years denuding an important archaeological site of 7,000 archaeological artefacts to flog on Ebay for their personal benefit and only tell the archaeologists about the site so they can claim a Treasure reward from the taxpayer for the hard-to-shift-legally items. What is the "problem" with the way that was presented??

Silaction - as a non-dectecting member of the general public I have to agree with your interpretation of how the programme came across.

But as Alan says, the final programme owes much to the editing and what the presenter and producer want to convey. Whether the end result is balanced and honest depends upon what's left in and what's left out. Whether the viewer finds the result balanced and honest depends also upon their own pre-formed views and opinions.

quote:

Whether the end result is balanced and honest depends upon what's left in and what's left out.

Indeed. But what IS left in is half a skeleton and what isn't left in is the other half of the skeleton, 7,000 artefacts and a great lump of communal knowledge.

I think THAT's a balanced and honest opinion of what went on at this site and I hope the programme conveyed it to the public.

Goodness me - this has got very lively!
So, if I have read right, Detectorists are, Evasive,Arrogant,Greedy (Thanks CDAYRE) Leeches (Cheers SIMONKG) and all we are after is to boost our pension (SIMONKG again - You're on a roll) and only after taxpayers treasure reward (Thank You SILACTION)- That's all 50,000 detectorists in a nutshell then?
I'm guessing that the majority of detectorists (Like Me) Work for a living, they also try to persuade Builders to allow them to check sites for historically valuable artifacts, before roads,houses and office blocks are built on them(That should please Simon). The same Government who pays out taxpayers money for treasure, is the same one that is pulling funding away from the PAS!I wish I could take you all out detecting with me, but unfortunately, my landowners are fussy about who they allow on their land!

I don't think anyone who criticises detectorists for doing bad things has said there aren't others who do good things. But since we're talking about this TV programme then the behaviour of those two is open for comment I suppose. Personally, I thought they were appalling - and their late "conversion" to the ways of righteousness was clouded by their previous twelve years of unrighteousness AND by their hints at the end that they might not call in the archaeologists in similar circumstances again. That would be a criminal act of course.

quote:

Originally posted by Jonathan-S.:
So, if I have read right, Detectorists are...

I disagree. Having reread the thread, I cannot identify that any of the comments you quote refer to anything or anyone other than the specific detectorists featured on the specific programme referred to in the thread title.

Detecting is discussed a lot on this forum (and others) and I don't think anyone could come to the conclusion that all detectorists could or should be tarred with the same brush.

I haven't seen the episode yet but am looking forward to it. I am not an archaeologist or a metal detectorist - just someone who is interested in and value the importance of learning and understanding the past. Like all walks of life you will find the good people and the bad. In an ideal world the detectorists would behave appropriately and report any finds to PAS / local museum etc. In turn, they should then be appropriately rewarded for such finds. That way everyone's a winner. We learn more about the past and the detectorists get rewarded for locating and reporting the find. I may be being a bit naive but surely that would be the best way forward?

quote:

Originally posted by Q'PLAU:
...be appropriately rewarded for such finds.

"Appropriate" by whose criteria? What something can fetch on the open market amongst wealthy collectors is not necessarily the same as its intrinsic value.

I would say the current way. By independent valuation? I believe this is how it is done?

It's coming to light, that there's is a lot more behind this story than was told on the programme.

Look.

I am new to Time Team and am hooked, big time.

When I recently saw the gold coin unearthed I got excited. I keep playing back the moment on Sky+!

Simple Simon sees that these two gents have not given me the chance to get excited 7000 times more because of their selfishness.

I am guessing, and I may be wrong, that I can quite comfortably tar detectorists with the same brush.

I am sorry to offend but that is the way it probably is.

Perhaps you ought to look at the PAS database and view some of the 300,000+ items, recorded over the last ten years or so.

quote:

Perhaps you ought to look at the PAS database and view some of the 300,000+ items, recorded over the last ten years or so.

Of course. Good for them. But that figure is less than 43x the number this pair took out of a single site.

So just two blokes found one forty third of what ten thousand declared to PAS.

So how much did the ten thousand remove and NOT declare?

As an archaeologist who has worked with metal detectors on site frequently I can understand the frustrations archaeologists and history enthusiasts have with a lot of metal detectorists. Even some of those I have worked with who are active members of clubs and do report their finds have a totally treasure orientated framework. There is nothing worse than hearing someone brag about how much they have found and are continuing to find in an area where archaeological research is limited by lack of funding.
However, there is no doubt that the honest and sincere members of the detectoring fraturnity are of great help to archaeologists both on site and in locating potential new sites.
I can also understand the frustration felt by the detectorists in the programme as I too have on a site where archaeology was dictated by geophys survey rather than by finds spots and while the results were interesting they did not answere the questions thrown up by the finds. Only when at the end were trenches opened over the finds spot did tangible evidence for that period emerge. So in that respect I can sympathise.
However like many watchers I too was saddened by the amount of 'treasure' sold off by the detectorists in the programme. All that knowledge and heritage lost. The archaeologist in me says at least they recorded the find spot of each piece and its identification, although I am sure for no archaeological reason, but still we can use that information.
Its a problem that wont be solved easily. Perhaps making detectorists licensed would help but I doubt it, there will always be night hawks im afraid as long as there is a market for finds and unfortunatly the popularity of archaeology continues to help that (its the flip side).
Getting rid of the portable antiquities scheme is not going to help.
Anyway, enough of a rant for now.
Good detectorists, we archaeologists appreciate your help (and we are only a bit jealous when you find the best things...) Nighthawkers and sellers, Stop plundering our history for your own gain!!