Is it possible, if a Bishops house was so secure by a stone wall to keep the baddies out, to escape would the monks have built a tunnelor tunnels, and if so how deep would they be and where should we look?
What route would they normally take? House to Abbey, or House to outside? any suggestions
Medieval tunnels are more common in fiction than fact. They are difficult and dangerous to construct. They would seldom be effective as escape routes in reality.
People love the idea of tunnels though. There are lots of legends of tunnels from one medieval building to another. Sometimes these stories are built around a stone-lined drain. Sometimes they are sheer fancy.
Here's an extract from the A-Z of Archaeology on the Time Team website:
quote:
Tunnels and passages One of the most frequently recounted local tales is of a secret tunnel that is supposed to link monasteries, nunneries, churches and so on, intended for the escape of people from events such as the dissolution of the monasteries and the Civil War. They are often said to run over the most amazing distances and under the most unlikely rivers, mountains and estuaries. If so, they would have taken decades to build and would have involved massive investment.
In fact, there are many tunnels and passages about, but when examined they are usually quite short and are invariably drains or sewers conveying water to large manor houses or monasteries. They are sometimes big enough to walk through, so that they could be cleaned out frequently.
Well that answers that theory, and the change of sound when a vehicle travels over the ground. may well be a drain but would it go slightly up hill? The distance would be 100 metres to the main road, other side of the wall.
On a positive note the property was a Templar Abbey, and there is a tunnel from the Abbey to the Bishop house. Excavation is underway. thanks for the help. In my home town Chertsey Surrey, Silverlands has a tunnel from there to Botley Park and from there to Foxhills and that is a fair distance in fact over a mile... but it's there, used to play in it as a child... I am glad we kept looking...
This is getting more and more fascinating Sue. The Templars did not have abbeys, but perhaps you mean it was a Templar commanderie?
The Templar lands in France were confiscated by Philip IV in the early 14th century, when the Templar order was disbanded. What he did with the property I'm not entirely sure. In other countries Templar lands and buildings went to the Hospitallers or other orders, but Philip IV was disinclined to be so generous. I know that much.
So I suppose it is possible that a Templar property came into the hands of a bishop by a sale from the French crown. But I wonder if perhaps things are getting confused in translation.
I agree, I had no idea about the Templars but I do now, since watching the History programme. Everything is starting to fit. The property as a whole is called the Abbey, because is was built by the white monks and later it was a commanderie. The property was owned privately and then by the King and given to his special subjects and as they passed I assume they gave it back or they sold it, in the 1800's it was privately owned and has been ever since,being divided between us and our neighbour. Due to WWII our main town was bombed severely and no records survived, hence our trouble in finding information, so it's a long process finding who lived there then tracing back etc... it's a long shot but it has paid off. One such person who lived there was a Bishop has left his coat of Arms at the property and we traced him thru this method... then we found out he was given the property as a gift for educating the Kings son..
I did geography at school when I should have done History, but, a lovely subject and researching is such fun... apoliges for seeming a bit Niave
Things are making more sense now Sue. No need to apologise. Heavens! Researching the history of medieval buildings is no easy task anywhere.
As it happens, I am a building historian and teach the process of research. I always advise people to cut their teeth on Georgian or later buildings and leave the medieval stuff for later. But who can blame you for plunging in the deep end, when you actually own a property with medieval origins? In your shoes I would want to know as much as possible about it.
What a fabulous subject, I just can't leave the researching alone, but heaps of dead ends due to the records being destroyed which is such a shame, to day we learned the modern house was called a Chateau, a neighbour sent us some old postcards of the Abbey and the Bishops houses, and they were very smart in comparison today,,, I always thourght a Chateau had the witches hats stairways, but it appears I am wrong. It was built for one person, a Bishop. great to have a pattern to work to.
We are in the Uk at present trying very hard to get time to go over and search the premises more intensely, I have a friend who has the equipment to tell us if wie have hollow ground, under the house, to the road, it seems logical if you have a stone wall to protect yourself, then if the invaders get in, you need an escape route and a tunnel seems the obvious route.. I won't be disappointed if we don't have one, but I have to satisfy my curiosity, the neighbours seem to think there is one, and a good excuse for a evening with friends.
Let's suppose I'm petrified of burglars. So I have a high wall built around my garden, topped with electrified wire. I have a couple of dobermans running loose in the grounds. I have top of the range burglar alarms.
But I am so afraid that they will get in anyway and murder me in my bed that I have an escape tunnel constructed to run from my cellar under all the alarms, dogs, and wall, to come up via a man-hole in the street. You see the snag? A way out is also a way in.
In novels writers fantasise about cunningly-hidden exits from tunnels, and having all the men who built the tunnel killed to keep the secret, but in reality a tunnel is not so much an escape route as a weakness in one's defences.
I have just got back from France and we do have a tunnel. thankyou for your thourghts, I had two professionals who offered their knowledge in the subject and they had the right equipment, there was a lot of discussion and they convinced me... the tunnel runs from the original church which has been concealed with stones, now uncovered, two day dig..with machine it runs approx 100metres towards the house, out the back 100 metre to the lane under the wall, they start digging next month.
The Mother church was built around 1127 the main house and monastry was built 1131 the quality of the build is there, no electric I am afraid and the road would have been dirt... as they are on foot and not in the car the distance and the time, would allow someone to easily escape as you would not be able to see them as the wall is very high so, a feasable route to escape... I rode away and they could no hear us. (and they knew I was there) the intruders would have to get into the estate and then into the house, before they could find the well concealed escape route...which we havent found ourselves yet.... digger arrives in two weeks, we are not letting this matter go...
The escape route to the road is a well overgrown bank,the tunnell is covered by a well grown ivy and we almost missed it, it was hard to find and therefore unless you knew it was there you would not find it... and we had several metres to search.
I agree with your theory but these guys have another idea they are working on facts... and the excitement continues...
