i always wonder what happens afterwards , the bones are they left in situ ?, i hope so as to give them a christian burial would be wrong in my eyes , it does concern me a little , an old lady was dug up from a few villages away by animal rights protesters , these people are classed as filth yet here we are digging a person up and stealing the grave goods , does time make a difference regarding dignity aand the rights of an individual ? do the educational merits overwelm the wishes of her people ? its a hard one to call and i guess there will be no rights or wrongs
the wheelhouse is a classic , in the computer mock up they place the course of stones inward and i think this was a little off , i could see quality in that for sure and id never heard of one before , i wonder whats still there waiting to see the light of day again
quote:
Originally posted by SIMONKG: Anybody want to comment?
I was a bit sceptical with this one.
thought they would only dig up a bucket and spade and an old ice cream cone.
however the boys done good with another fascinating episode.
the wheel shaped house was amazing and would put some of our current housebuilders to shame
I thought this weeks episode was excellent. So far the 3 shows this series have been very, very good. My favourite periods are Roman / pre-Roman so I have been spoilt so far! As an aside I thought the recent TimeWatch programme on BBC2 was also excellent. It was about the life and times of William Marshall and medieval jousting.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by izzzzythedog: i always wonder what happens afterwards , the bones are they left in situ ?, i hope so as to give them a christian burial would be wrong in my eyes , it does concern me a little , an old lady was dug up from a few villages away by animal rights protesters , these people are classed as filth yet here we are digging a person up and stealing the grave goods , does time make a difference regarding dignity aand the rights of an individual ? do the educational merits overwelm the wishes of her people ? its a hard one to call and i guess there will be no rights or wrongs
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SIMONKG:
I often have the same point of view when an episode involves what is basically exhumation for TV. This time it was a case of excavating before the weather scattered the remains and some useful references would be lost.
Originally posted by hopski: [QUOTE]Originally posted by izzzzythedog: i always wonder what happens afterwards , the bones are they left in situ ?, i hope so as to give them a christian burial would be wrong in my eyes , it does concern me a little , an old lady was dug up from a few villages away by animal rights protesters , these people are classed as filth yet here we are digging a person up and stealing the grave goods , does time make a difference regarding dignity aand the rights of an individual ? do the educational merits overwelm the wishes of her people ? its a hard one to call and i guess there will be no rights or wrongs
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SIMONKG:
I often have the same point of view when an episode involves what is basically exhumation for TV. This time it was a case of excavating before the weather scattered the remains and some useful references would be lost.
I do think rescue archaeology is a different matter. If it wasn't for these digs, then bones, burials and grave goods may be lost for ever. I have some reservations on those that are exhumed merely for entertainment though...
There is a difference in respectfully excavating human remains for research or to rescue them from coastal erosion/development and digging up a recently buried body for blackmail.
TT has shown Christian remains being re-buried with due ceremony but I don't know if that happens in all cases. Frankly it doesn't bother me that much, whatever you believe your bones aren't much use to you after you're dead. If anybody wants mine they're welcome.
As an aside I thought the recent TimeWatch programme on BBC2 was also excellent. It was about the life and times of William Marshall and medieval jousting.
Sorry to disagree but I was most disappointed. Watched this because William had connections with the estate in the next parish --- it didn't tell me anything about HIM. He was the one I was interested in and I was being bored with 'how to train a knight'.
I could do with some for making a new windchime, Fil!
Seriously, you know I agree with you. Whilst all remains are entitled to be treated with respect and dignity, I don't see any problem with excavation or disinterment providing there's no immediate family left. Having my uncle's remains removed from his grave when they extended a London hospital, during the lifetime of his mother, made me realise that we can't own or claim the land forever in which we lie!
Well we don't always and automatically own the land in which we lie. Around here we hold a lease on the plot for 50 years, in that time they expect most living relatives to have joined you in the graveyard. If by any chance the grave is still tended, they expect you to remove the remains, or pay out for another lease.
Every time I've known rchaeologists dig up bodies it has been done with respect. Usually it is due to development, disturbance or erosion of the ground. If it is for research it is more of a cloudy area. I haven't excavated a skeleton myself but those I know who have done have said that it is a strange experience.
There are some difficult questions, and it is right to ask them and challenge what is happening so that archaeology can be done as ethically as possible.
Quite a common practice in municipal cemetaries, especially in urban areas where land is at a premium.
There's a good book available called Necropolis, I can't remeber the author, which describes the burial practices in Victorian London before the big cemetaries like Kensal Green were built. It was pretty grim with coffins stacked one on top of the other and bones just dug up and thrown away if they were unearthed whilst a fresh grave was being dug.
Originally posted by Fil2: Quite a common practice in municipal cemetaries, especially in urban areas where land is at a premium.
There's a good book available called Necropolis, I can't remeber the author, which describes the burial practices in Victorian London before the big cemetaries like Kensal Green were built. It was pretty grim with coffins stacked one on top of the other and bones just dug up and thrown away if they were unearthed whilst a fresh grave was being dug.
Necropolis: London and It's dead by Catherine Arnold. On my list of books I must get round to reading one day. There was a programme a couple of years ago (can't remember what channel or title) which covered the subject very well too.
I've excavated in a few churchyards, usually connected with building works, and we've nearly always found a great many loose bones from disturbed burials in the topsoil, showing that the gravediggers of the past had few qualms about disturbing older burials.
In fact I would hazard a guess that their are probably very few churchyards in any part of the country that would have a totally undisturbed set of burials dating from its earlier phases. A lot of them would have been at a much shallower depth then as well.
Originally posted by Chris D: There was a programme a couple of years ago (can't remember what channel or title) which covered the subject very well too.
I remember that, weren't they called Necropolis, or something similar ?
My grandmother died in 1943 when her bungalow in Laindon was bombed. I only found out a few years ago, where she was buried, but her grave had already been reused. I was told they can be reused after 50 years if they haven't been tended.
........................................................................ Support the PAS Go with the FLO
Originally posted by Tetricus: I was told they can be reused after 50 years if they haven't been tended.
I think 50 years is right, but it doesn't always matter whether they've been tended or not if the developers want to move in! My uncle died as a small child and Nan lived into her 90s so 50 years was way too short to have seen off living relatives (and my Mum, his sister, is still alive and kicking!). Still, the needs of the living really do have to outweigh those of the dead.
Blundering councils and greedy developers are different from excavating the bodies of people who have lain undisturbed for centuries for archaeology. Let them rest until a more less extreme technique is developed to analyse the situation. After all, many sites are schedulled to prevent digging so why not burials. I'm going to be cremated or buried at sea.
I want a Green Burial in a wicker coffin, with an English Oak tree planted on top of me... I don't mind if someone digs me up in hundreds of years time, as long as they learn something about life in the 21st century from my remains!
What a beautiful site - and the archaeology wasn't bad either.
However... my Biologist / Ecologist bones are stirring - I totally understand digging where the dune had blown out BUT I'm a little uncomfortable about breaking through entire turf to dig that wheel house...
Once the covering of the tough turf - which, as Matt found, is incredibly tough, intertwined and resistant to cutting - has been removed, and the soft sand exposed, the chances of further erosion is very much increased. This could lead to the remaining archaeology being damaged much more rapidly than would otherwise have been the case - and also damage the highly delicate dune ecosystem.
I'd be interested to know how this was addressed and what precautions were taken when the trench was infilled to prevent further erosion.
