I'm watching the current show on Shooters Hill, does anyone else think the sharpened flanged pipes could be the base for an aerial? which means the adjacent bunker could be far more intresting!
My husband said thats what it was as soon as it was dug up! How come their military experts didn't think that??
Also, the house with the secret bunker, they didn't mention finding out who had lived at the house at that time. Surely the resident must have been somehow involved or at least known about it. Maybe it was too " top secret" to reveal anymore.
Originally posted by tda2806: I'm watching the current show on Shooters Hill, does anyone else think the sharpened flanged pipes could be the base for an aerial?
That seems to be the opinion of most people I talk to. The first thing that I thought when I saw them was, something must have been bolted onto them.
........................................................................ Support the PAS Go with the FLO
They didn't appear to be anchored firmly enough to support much, if anything. As I've said elsewhere during the war materials were short and people used what ever they could get hold of. I wouldn't read too much into their presence, they could've been "re-cycled" from somewhere else.
Having lived in the area in through the fifties I was interested to see the programme though it was digging up things from slightly before my time. The most intresting statement was that details of what went on in the war years are being rapidly lost. As several mails in the various threads have said, there were a number of "interesting" sites in the area, hospitals and garrisons as well as the road and the whole area did have a number of installations not only on the hill itself. It should also be remembered that the A2 ran below the hill so it was not the only invasion route to London. In the early fifites many of the anti aircraft gun stands and other detritus were still in place, though they have now been built over. I ended up feeling that the wider area deserved more than this usual three day investigation. There was so much activity over a greater area, that a whole series of digs backed up by other research would be needed to do it justice. Perhaps then some of the open questions might be answered. The "garden bunker" was a surprising structure, obtaining the necessary materials for such a structure and the labour to dig it would have been a challenge though not an impossible a private venture. Investigation of the deeds for the properties in question might have turned up something of interest. I agree with other posters that the cold war installations were usually far more serious and far larger so it is unlikely to have been one of those. I also feel that it was unlikely to have been a "post defeat" bolt hole as it was far too accessible, most were hidden away from houses and people. However it would not have been the first "command centre" to have been "lightly hidden" and close to private housing. The reference to the nearby fire station might well have been a key to why it was chosen. Some such centres for e.g. the civil defense were in houses, even some for fighter stations when needs must, just look at what happened to North Weald when it was badly bombed and the wing of a large house was taken over. The programme answered some questions and raised many others, though on one point raised elsewhere I do believe that the answer is quite certain. Brass was used for propellent charges "cartridge cases" while I understand that the projectile was usually iron based and designed to produce a number of fragments radiated at high speed in the hope of creating damage on their fight paths. Some illustrations show cast in patterns, much like those on grenades, designed to encourage fragment production.
Originally posted by Owain G: Hopski mun,remember the pillbox on the Lambies?
Yes I do. The one by the lighthouse pub is now buried in the new sea wall but intact. There was also one near the entrance to the William Nicholls Home (A48) and some sort of guard house round the back (Tyr Winch)
I must agree that the attribution of those flanged pipes to "revetment supports" has to be wrong, for a couple of reasons: 1. They appear to have been vertically installed whereas a support stake would have been driven at an angle and was shown that way in the reconstruction. 2. Stakes would be driven into the ground with a sledge hammer but those flanges looked undamaged and flat. 3. Iron bars are unlikely to have been in short supply early in the was, so why use lengths of expensive looking pipe? Coupled to that is the fact that there existed a number of "ground spike" antenna mountings at that time (1938-40). I would cite the Aerial Base No 3 which was used with various sets, including the Wireless Set No 11. Dimensioned drawings of this and others exist and could be compared to those flanges. The standard spike was a lot lighter than the things dug at Shooter's Hill but they were for temporary use, whereas this was evidently a more permanent structure. Incidentally, the arrangement does look similar to the Landrover mounting mentioned by Owain G, but that is from the 50s (and later). There was no real equivalent during WW2 except for the WS 1 truck aerial mounting, which is of earlier vintage and doesn't really look much like it. But... there is still a problem. Why would more than one vertical aerial be required - and in such close proximity? There were examples of vehicle stations with two or three whip aerials quite close together but only because they had to be close together. Given more space, the tendency would have been to separate them. The other thing is that you only need meultiple aerials when you have multiple sets - normally in a command post or vehicle. So we come back to that shelter - was it really just to protect from falling shrapnel or was it perhaps an AA command post controlling the operation of the guns, searchlights and so forth on and around the hill? Perhaps someone with local knowledge can tell us.
I went back up the hill yesterday and would have looked at this to try to refresh my memory a little but cant quite make out where it is?Is it in the back gardens of a house fronting shooters hill welling side that stretch into the oxleas meadow's area ? Some of the houses were taken over by the military at the time . I have a vague recollection of a military establishment at the bottom of oxley's meadows near the A2 I think this was a gun site as well and don't forget you had RAF Kidbrooke just up the road
I think you are getting a bit too bogged down in technical radio detail here.
For my money, these are simply revetment supports. They would have needed something substantial to support several tons of earth revetment and these spikes would have done the job. Due to shortages, in the war they used whatever they could get their hands on e.g. I've seen parts of Victorian iron bedsteads used as reinforcements in concrete pillboxes.
It was definitely an air raid shelter. It was the standard shape and construction for a shelter and had the remains of bench supports down the side walls. It was too small and not the correct pattern for an AA Command Post.
...so in all the haste and hurry to hold back the earth with whatever came to hand they protected the tops of the pipes from damage while driving them home? I think Alister has a good point.
No secret bunkers I'm afraid! Dug out by one neighbour who was builder and Bakerlite switches (featured) and electricity supplied by other (who we bought house off in '69) - worked for Electriciy Board. Rockeries built to use up excavated earth and to make feature in gardens. Additional electrics and bench added by my father who used it as his workshop!
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Originally posted by CatOne: My husband said thats what it was as soon as it was dug up! How come their military experts didn't think that??
Also, the house with the secret bunker, they didn't mention finding out who had lived at the house at that time. Surely the resident must have been somehow involved or at least known about it. Maybe it was too " top secret" to reveal anymore.
To be fair, the main means of communication to fixed installations was the telephone - much time and effort was expended building up the Defence Communications Network in 1938-40. But I can't get away from the apparently un-bashed flanges! I wonder if the team got any photos with dimensions? That would prove it!
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Originally posted by Tetricus: Back in the 1940's radio communication would have been a very important means of communication, and in some situations, the only way. No mobile phones then, and you couldn't rely on the phones working due to possible air raid damage.
