Antoine are you french? anyway i would that new explanation for the henge as a stage set for a bbc drama reconstruction (durrington walls retold!) sounds potty - some of the materials that were there then but perished might have given us a better clue?
no one has said this i just thought of it! perhaps they worshipped the pig or some other animal - the horse? we do not know whether the sun or the astronomy was the primary factor for stonehenge - it could have been secondary to anything (SOMEONE thought the solstice would make a nice backlit or illumination to their annual ceremony - these people had as much intelligence as us and creativity) or the factors that gave them sustenance or anthropomorphic things. Durrington Wails. perhaps they placed things on top of the timbers or the timbers were there for some other weird reason?
i can remember reading The Lord of the Flies by William Golding.
Please dont laugh. The scepticism is always there in archaeology a bit like philosophy but it isnt helped by poor Mike Parker Pearson who is a genius but not so good on camera as Mick.
i like the idea of the manmade forest. I don't think it means that there is no ritual aspect though. Two thousand years later and we have religious worship seemingly taking place in sacred groves with the oak tree playing a central role apparently. Also, the more formal Iron Age , and even Romano-British temples with an 'inner sanctum' and an ambulatory all within a boundary could be an echo of this.
Originally posted by Steve Platt: Durrington Walls: A Time Team Special Monday 28 November
About three kilometres to the north east of Stonehenge, bisected by two roads, including the busy A345, is a huge circular earthwork, or henge: Durrington Walls. Despite damage from the road construction and many years of ploughing, its high bank and ditch is still a striking feature on the landscape of this world heritage site. And while Stonehenge may be Britain's most famous prehistoric monument, Durrington Walls is its biggest.
During the summer of 2005, Time Team filmed the excavations taking place at Durrington Walls as part a ten-year archaeological investigation of the Stonehenge world heritage site. The project, which was in its third year in 2005, has involved collaboration by ten universities, four archaeological projects and countless experts - and now Time Team, who built a reconstruction of the massive timber circles that would once have stood on this site.
The web pages to accompany this programme will go live to coincide with transmission on 28 November at:
Originally posted by Steve Platt: Durrington Walls: A Time Team Special Monday 28 November
About three kilometres to the north east of Stonehenge, bisected by two roads, including the busy A345, is a huge circular earthwork, or henge: Durrington Walls. Despite damage from the road construction and many years of ploughing, its high bank and ditch is still a striking feature on the landscape of this world heritage site. And while Stonehenge may be Britain's most famous prehistoric monument, Durrington Walls is its biggest.
During the summer of 2005, Time Team filmed the excavations taking place at Durrington Walls as part a ten-year archaeological investigation of the Stonehenge world heritage site. The project, which was in its third year in 2005, has involved collaboration by ten universities, four archaeological projects and countless experts - and now Time Team, who built a reconstruction of the massive timber circles that would once have stood on this site.
The web pages to accompany this programme will go live to coincide with transmission on 28 November at:
Originally posted by gear: Having watched the programme last night I was wondering, does this mean Christmas is celebrated on the wrong day ? I know Christmas was originally a pagan festival that was taken over by the christians but it would seem to be too close to the winter solstice to be mere coincidence.
Pobably more to do with Mithras having his birthday on the 25th of December.
...... The timber circle from inside is very much like manmade forest, the ditch and bank would be suited to keeping someone/ something in, with the bank supplying a good vantage point and views into the circle, when you consider a pigs natural habbitat, and the arrowheads, a whole new set of ideas comes to mind. think of this what you will.
Greetings Ladies & Gentlemen:My studies of the Durrington Walls, Woodhenge, Stonehenge and several other Neolithic Age buildings in Britain led to write a book 125 000 words and 100 illustrations.Stonehenge Sacred Symbolism The DW Southern Circle chapter describes how the five rings of posts tally the Sun calendar of sixteen months a year, each month of four weeks, each week of five days. Intercalary days were added at the end of each month. In the cases of Durrington Walls, Woodhenge, Stonehenge - each month had three weeks of five days, a fourth week of four days (the horseshoe of bluestones, the perimeter posts at Woodhenge and Durrington Walls). The outermost rings of posts at Woodhenge and Durrington Walls numbered 61. The Stonehenge bluestones inside the Sarsen ring also numbered 61. These were the monthly added intercalatial days. 16 months x [5x3 + 4]= 304. Add 61 = 365, the days of the year. These 'temples' were the Sun calendar sites close to each other. Others included Stanton Drew, Mount Pleasant and the Sanctuary. See my book "Irish Symbols of 3500 BC" published by The Mercier Press, Cork, Ireland. Item 8565, Visa and Mastercard. The contents give the 3500 BC evidence at the Knowth and Newgrange mound kerb stones of the sam Sun calendar. I explain the archaeoastronomical knowledge at that time by deciphering the 30 or so petroglyph symbols, their consisten meanings and collective messages. Durrington Walls is a part of the knowledge spread from Ireland to Britain, France, Germany. The Nebra Sky Disc offes the same message. That's all for now.
I'm new to the forum so apologies if I repeat what has already been said somewhere by someone. Durrington Walls, what a splendid site - I'd never even heard of it before. I was struck by the extraordinary, and if I'm honest, in some cases overly romantic notions of its intended purpose. Clearly we may never know why it was built or exactly how it was used, but one hypothesis that wasn't mentioned (ok, don't laugh) has anyone considered that with a roof on it would have made and excellent building?
There's no evidence whatsoever to suggest the vertical timbers were any particular length so they could easily have been cut to provide a sloping support for long timber trusses from which cross members and ultimately thatching could have have been laid. So what do you get? A huge communal building similar in form to a round-house in which all manner of activities could have taken place, not least of which may have been damn good parties, they were Brits after all!
The precedent for similar configurations of small family houses combined with a large communal buildings has been widespread in primitive cultures and still exists today ion many of the tribes living in places such as Borneo; so could it be possible Durrington Walls was no different?
I can't help but feel the basic needs of safety, warmth and community would be best served by such use of the structure, especially as they could have popped down the road to Stonehenge for more spiritual needs.
I think a roof is a possibility. When I first saw the layout of the posts, it rmeinded me of the "forty metre structure" at Navan. Different in many ways, I know, but there are similarities I think.
I've seen the roof theory in relation to another wooden henge (forgotten which one). Wouldn't they estimate the hright of thr posts from the depth of the hole, assuming that the hole would be dug to a minimum depth to securely support the size of post?
It occured to me that the individual dwellings they found could have been the equivalent of our motel rooms. If it was a seasonally used site and the rooms were a bit small for housing a family, that would make sense.
Originally posted by staticgirl: 2. I understand that some archaeologists think that the joints used to keep the lintels onto the stones in Stonehenge are based on woodworking techniques.I dimly remember Mike Pitts or someone saying that it was evidence of master woodsworking.
No problems there as timber would have been used in construction well before stone because of the simple reason that it was easier (quicker) to work. Your right, similar joints are used in joinery that were used on stonehenge.
quote:
Originally posted by staticgirl: Is it therefore possible that the woodhenges had lintels as well as it would be logical to asume that people were used to this concept in some useage or other?
Yes it is possible but we will never know unless some fallen henge happened to be in a nice peat bog.
Originally posted by antoine: A new theory emerged amongst some of the 'diggers' as to the use of timber henges from the experience of being inside the reconstruction, the general form of henges (ditch within a bank) and the sheer number of pig bones with arrow heads embedded in them. The timber circle from inside is very much like manmade forest, the ditch and bank would be suited to keeping someone/ something in, with the bank supplying a good vantage point and views into the circle, when you consider a pigs natural habbitat, and the arrowheads, a whole new set of ideas comes to mind. think of this what you will.
A pig hunt in an enclosure because that was their (the pigs) natural enviroment?
Fairy nuff but wouldnt they have had to have kept the tree tops on to provide the shade so that the natural environment (that the pigs need) could have flourished?
I suppose the full environmental results would have to be known here to further the argument on that score.
Chucking a Sarson up was no problem apparently, trying to throw up a forest with a full canopy is a different matter because it would move (be unstable). Not only that wouldnt the canopy die after a short time thus reducing the shade to nothing after one year.
If the argument is that they could have replaced the trees year in year out then the people who made this structure would have had more time on their hands than we possibly imagine.
Somebody is going to tell me that the trees could root aren't they.
Originally posted by AJ ap Hywel:................. If the argument is that they could have replaced the trees year in year out then the people who made this structure would have had more time on their hands than we possibly imagine..........
Wouldn't have left them much time for all their ritual activities either
........................................................................ Support the PAS Go with the FLO
I wasn't suggesting the diameter of the hole was related to the height of the post, but the depth of the hole could be.
Surely a roof would give suitable shade? It needn't have been as solid as a building roof, perhaps more like a trellis-work affair with thatch / hazel rods etc woven in.
Did anyone notice the shadows cast by the tree trunks appeared to synchronise - noticeable on the grass but more dramatic if seen against bare chalk? Were quartz and chalk, dependant on local geology, used to obtain similar effects of high visibility? Perhaps the ashes/bones of the dead were not cast into the Avon but carefully carried by boat to Stonehenge itself. The narrowing of the road as it approaches the Avon may indicate walking to a narrow embarkation point as the broader flow of people emerging from the entrance could continue to the river and line the bank to deposit the ashes. How sure can we be that Stonehenge and Durrington were not sequential - what is the date range centred on 2500BC? Congratulations on intuition combining with archaeology to establish the link between the two sites.
Originally posted by Eileen: I've seen the roof theory in relation to another wooden henge (forgotten which one).
You're almost certainly thinking of Woodhenge, a little to the south of Durrington Walls. It has a number of features in common with the South Circle at Durrington (the one that TT reconstructed), including six concentric rings of timber posts where Durrington has five.
There's a reconstruction of how it might have looked with a roof here:
That whole website is worth exploring for a basic overview of the Stonehenge world heritage site.
<Steve Platt>
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eddie Mallett: One thing that I was wondering about. What is the ratio of Wood henges, to stone henges in Britain.
I was just wondering about these henges.
In stone age britain, it seems as if mostly wood & stone (Flint, Churt.) were their main materials of use. Of corse in some cases bone.
Could it not have been that Neolithic man just might have been worshiping the materials that they were working with in every day life. Just a thought.
Interesting though.
Wood henges & Stone henges. They just might have been Neolithic mans version of a church.
Praising the elements
Best wisheses
Hi Eddie. Strictly speaking, the term 'henge' refers to an enclosure surrounded by a bank and ditch, rather than any stone or timber circle. A henge doesn't necessarily have a circle within it, and a circle isn't necessarily associated with a henge.
We know of a lot more stone monuments than timber ones, for the obvious reason that stone is more lasting, so it's hard to make comparisons. There are in the region of 100 known henges in the British Isles, and maybe 1,000-plus stone monuments of one sort or another. The Megalithic Map people might have figures for the numbers on their database.
Originally posted by bway: Perhaps the ashes/bones of the dead were not cast into the Avon but carefully carried by boat to Stonehenge itself.
This is the theory I thought they were heading for when they mentioned the cremation burials found at Stonehenge - I thought they'd lost that thread when they then moved on to "casting the ashes on the water"!
There was an awful lot of conjecture in this programme - didn't make it any the less interesting, though!
