Originally posted by gary B.: Dont worry Nigel... people will take you seriously one day!
I guess the day has come.
I recall the scores of postings I have made here and on PAS forum and elsewhere over the years, always with the same simple message - not enough people report to PAS, one day the Treasury will decide enough is enough, the hobby must use PAS or lose it.
And I recall the endless denials, the endless claims that most people DO report to PAS and the assurance that given just a few more years all would be well.
This posting will be characterised as gloating. It is not. A downgrading of PAS gives me no pleasure whatsoever, I would much rather it had been a huge success, as it was in the hands of every single detectorist to make it.
However, it has now been judged that a unit cost of £24 per reported artefact and a minority of artefacts being reported is not an optimum use of public funds. I agree and I suspect that it is anyway now far too late to change the policy decision that has now been taken through faxing MPs and signing petitions, though we’ll see.
Instead, I agree with the recent assessment of a very well known senior detectorist who used to post here, someone who is certainly not a friend of PAS, that the situation is not good for the hobby and the right way forward for the hobby is for the hobby to unite in lobbying for the introduction of licensing.
Some will say no, never. Some will say I’ll break the law if I have to. Some will fantasize that a detector-run database will be seen as acceptable when the taxpayers’ one hasn’t been embraced. Some will say it’s PAS’s fault (what a monumental neck!) and it must be altered.
Whether the rest, who see licensing as the way forward, will be numerous or organized enough remains to be seen. However, what seems to have now become rather more likely now, IMO, is that however PAS evolves in future, licensing (not banning) will be seen as an appropriate adjunct to it, sooner or later. Whether detectorists wish to be part of the design team or have it thrust upon them ready prepared, will be a matter entirely for them.
I’d guess most will shout about their rights and freedoms and make the wrong choice, as they have all these years regarding supporting PAS.
It’s a hobby that constantly blames others for its situation and doesn’t accept that its all down to the fact its members score hundreds of own goals every single day.
Silaction, I dont think these financial cut backs wholey reflect your arguement against the way the metal detecting hobby generally conducts itself. Two main reasons for me; it reflects the diversion of cash away from the heritage sector in priority of a big forthcoming atheltic event. But yes, this does partly reflect the need and importance to prioritise the good use of tax payers money, especially that sort of amount.
The PAS has become a titanic, and so icebergs are harder to miss. I guess they just hit one. Abandon shiiiiip... :-O
Thanks for your response. I didn't expect any. Tetricus has posted elsewhere urging detectorists not to reply to me. Graphically illustrating the own goal point I think!
I can't say for certain whether the limited uptake to the Scheme has influenced the government. But PAS is to have an immediate contraction, then a decentralisation and then an ominous "review" in the Summer to determine its future funding. So I think it has come out of the comprehensive spending review rather worse than most of the rest of the heritage sector, so something's up, as most detectorists acknowledge. The game I suspect. We'll have to see.
Originally posted by webleyman: @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Pledging their love to the ground Lonely but free I'll be found Drifting along with the tumbling tumble weed
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ tumble weed there goes another.
As mentioned, Tetricus has spread the word - on several forums - not to respond here so the silence is no surprise. Actually, it's entirely predictable, like the fact yet another good news story implying most detectorists report to PAS will be posted very shortly!
The cutbacks are unlikely to be anything to do with the success or not of the scheme. All Government funding is being squeezed over the next few years.
The cutbacks are unlikely to be anything to do with the success or not of the scheme. All Government funding is being squeezed over the next few years.
I would be more convinced of that if all parts of the Heritage sector had fared badly on the Comprehensive spending review and if PAS wasn't still to face a further "review" in the Summer.
English Heritage, for one, hasn't done badly. And only yesterday Tate Modern was given an extra £50 million capital allocation. That's 30x PAS's whole annual budget....
The cutbacks are unlikely to be anything to do with the success or not of the scheme. All Government funding is being squeezed over the next few years.
I would be more convinced of that if all parts of the Heritage sector had fared badly on the Comprehensive spending review and if PAS wasn't still to face a further "review" in the Summer.
English Heritage, for one, hasn't done badly. And only yesterday Tate Modern was given an extra £50 million capital allocation. That's 30x PAS's whole annual budget....
Can't comment on your examples (but would agree with th sentiment of about Tate funding going to PAS), but certainly in local government things are going to be tough over the next 3 years, with archaeology departments, museums and archives facing cuts. A lot of the lottery money is also being diverted too. Some may come OK but most people in heritage field will be cutting back.
Originally posted by farmer palmer: As mentioned, Tetricus has spread the word - on several forums - not to respond here so the silence is no surprise.
Not entirely true, people are free to make whatever comments they like.
........................................................................ Support the PAS Go with the FLO
Originally posted by farmer palmer: As mentioned, Tetricus has spread the word - on several forums - not to respond here so the silence is no surprise.
Not entirely true, people are free to make whatever comments they like.
It's totally true that you expressed the hope elsewhere that people would ignore me here.
I wish you would all get on with life instead of sniping at each other. I do not often frequent this site but when I do all I see is one upmanship. Live life and try to get on with each other and if you want to be an archeologist then be one or if you wish to detect the go ahead and detect, with landowners permission of course. It is the season of good will, be merry and have a Happy Christmas.
By all means. As soon as the majority who remove thousands of elements of the archaeological resource for fun and profit deign to report what they have taken to the Portable Antiquities Scheme, thereby providing a modicum of mitigation to the rest of us for what they do. I take it you don't recommend that we simply "get on" with those who remove wild birds' eggs? I'm sure you don't. This is identical so you'll excuse me if I don't pretend otherwise. And no, I'm not an archaeologist. Just an ordinary person who thinks conservation matters.
No. The symptoms seem to involve getting into a flap and running round like panicking headless chickens, made all the worse for being an entirely self-inflicted malaise. That, and the denial syndrome that goes with it.
Poor little chicks. One might feel sorry for them if only they didn't all so thoroughly deserve it and hadn't squawked for so many years that they didn't. Xmas is here, can the stuffing be far behind? Who knows? Maybe even now they'll change their ways but I don't think we should be overly confident about that. Chickens aren't known for strategic thinking or indeed any rational thinking at all come to that. Too busy grubbing about to twig the wider implications.
Nut roast for you then? cannibalism! Anyway to return 'swiftly' to topic, if the PAS were no more, what alternative do you have? Let's see if we get a direct answer,or a stroll down the garden path.
if the PAS were no more, what alternative do you have? Let's see if we get a direct answer,or a stroll down the garden path.
I'm delighted to answer since my answers have been widely and erroneously reported elsewhere.
if the PAS were no more... there is a strong likelihood that some form of legislative contraint would be imposed upon the hobby thereafter. On that point, I think, I am at one with most hobbyists.
Do I wish for PAS to be no more? Most decidedly not. More complete agreement with hobbyists, I think (although it hasn't been long since certain hobby leaders were singing a different, separatist, and at one time in one case even a nighthawking tune, has it?)
Will it happen? I very much doubt it - certainly for a few years, from all that is said by the Government, the BM and the MLA. It could shrink though, regrettably. That is rather up to the hobby though, depending if it gets through all their skulls that it IS down to their behaviour, not down to any of their favourite hate figures, including their newest one, Roy Clare. If those who currently report to PAS turned and pointed an accusing finger ar those who don't it would make a huge difference. Instead, there is a ridiculous tribal loyalty that says "unity is strength" and detectorists, even those who have got the hobby into the present mire, must always be supported. That attitude gives stupidity a bad name. Why don't responsible detectorists band together, proclaim their own virtue and roundly condemn the other non-PAS recording lot as not worthy of the name metal detectorist? Beats me. But they won't.
what alternative do you have? As mentioned, I don't think it will happen but IF PAS ceased to exist then my alternative is licensing. Some detectorists say this or banning would simply lead to major law breaking. I disagree. In fact i think "I'll carry on anyway" is immature macho posturing. If the penalties for doing it are sufficiently strong, they won't do it. If the penalties upon farmers for allowing it are sufficiently strong, THEY won't allow it either. In Northern ireland there is licensing and few detectorists detect unlicensed. In Southern Ireland there is a ban and few detectorists detect at all.
So there you are. A hobby entirely comprising voluntary PAS recorders or a hobby comprising only INvoluntary PAS recorders, that's what I hope to see. And which it is is up to Responsible Detectorists.
I hope you'll accept that is an entirely direct answer, not a stroll down the garden path.
''there is a strong likelihood that some form of legislative contraint''
There are quite a few constraints,stewardship agreements et al. If detecting was severely restricted,or banned,then the ones who are hoping for this would be responsible for an unknown amount (but a good guess) would be a massive amount of metallic items left to rot,doing no good whatsoever in situ. No sense in that. Cheers.
