Drumlanrig, Dumfries Fighting on the frontier Sunday 23 January, 5pm
Twenty years ago, during a particularly dry summer, parch marks revealed what seemed to be a huge Roman fort a few hundred metres from the Duke of Buccleugh's extraordinarily grand house, Drumlanrig Castle, in Dumfries. The discovery lay untouched until Time Team took on the challenge to investigate it further.
The web pages for this programme will go live tomorrow (Sunday) at:
I'm going to be watching this one with special interest as, not only am I fascinated by the extent of the expansion of the Romans in the north - but the area around Dumfries is the heart of the ancestral homeland of the Porteous family, which I am researching.
Interesting programme which I quite enjoyed. Didn't see much of Stewart tho. Phil's not safe with a spade in his hand! Word of warning - don't mess with Phil Harding!
Didn't know there was a second "Hadrian's Wall" either.
I wasn't able to give this programme my full attention, but the overwhelming thought at the end of the dig was 'why?'. I can't for the life of me work out what knowledge was gained by the dig - the archaeologists knew there was a Roman fort there before they put spade to soil, geophys provided all the answers, and the knowledge of the layout and structure of Roman forts is such that there seems little left to learn. The site was so large that in the time available the team could do little more than scratch the surface - as they themselves admitted. A disappointing one!
AAAaarrrrrrgggghh Who let that G woman on the site And, what was she doing there Not only is she at Cambridge but she is reckoned to be an A/S scholar. Will someone please tell me any connection between the two? On top of all this what contribution did she make to the prog.?
As to the prog. itself I remain somewhat confused. I personally have not heard of the Romans destroying their fortifications when they left. As Guy de la Bedoyere said, they were of no use to the natives as they did not fight a 'static' war. It was also said that the R/B forces traded with the natives. So, where does war come into it?.
I know that the local tribes were Britons of Strathclyde who were ousted by the incoming Scotti from the C5 AD onwards but by then the 'Romans' were long gone. To my mind the fort at Drumlanrig served no strategic purpose. We have no evidence for Picts marauding from the Southern Highlands on to the Border Plains. In a real war with the Picts the focus of 'Roman' activity would have been on the eastern side of the lowlands. I believe that the locals were the Votadini but whether Britons or part of the Southern Picts mentioned by Bede I know not. A good case has been put forward for their being Picts who were invited south by Urien of Reghed to help him fight the Northumbrian Angles. Again, a substantial case has been put forward for King Arthur being a nobleman of the Votadini. In any case, their departure left the way clear for the Northumbrian Angles to move northward to settle eventually at Edinburgh [Edwin's Burgh] but again their plans were thwarted because they were roundly defeated by a joint Picto/Scottish army at the Battle of Nechtansmere. They never moved north again.
I also wondered what Helen was doing there, as she does as Ian says, specialize in the A/S period. She is (in my opinion) easy on the eye, and was probably brought in as Carenza was missing, but then contributed little, to the finished programme anyway.
I quite liked this one, I don’t think we can always take the documented history as written by the Romans as gospel. I doubt that in the 400odd years they were here, every movement they made was accurately recorded. As I understood it, this area hadn’t been excavated before, so they had no hard evidence of what lay beneath the surface. I was surprised they found few metallic objects, coins, buckles etc. I was wondering if it was used by the military as a marching camp, to rest on their way further north ?
........................................................................ Support the PAS Go with the FLO
D, I assume that is an ironic cheer, I find the Occupation period fascinating with archaeology filling the gaps in our knowledge of the history. I suppose IA and post Roman periods are almost pure archaeology as there is little else to base our knowledge on. What is your interest?
Angry with Tony's line that, the Dragon horn has never been built before,thats an out and out lie! it HAS on another program and they did a bloomin sight better job of it! it didnt have Chinese whistles in it either but was black with a red tounge that mooves and emitted sound !
Ho hum, yes i enjoyed this one , and liked to see helen in it as well,two heads are better than one,you never know she could of picked up on something that the others might of missed. yes it was obvious that there was a roman settlement there and they had to dig to find out if anything new could be learnt, just a shame that there wasn't more finds i.e. more pottery,coins,(datable).heres to next weeks tt.
quote:Originally posted by Tetricus: I was surprised they found few metallic objects, coins, buckles etc
Apparently they hoovered up everything before setting fire to it, and then moved on. Or .... all the finate metal artifacts have been removed and recorded with PAS by detectorists.
Ian I'm not sure who the G woman is although I enjoyed her spot.
Classic.
I liked this one, but it was a little predictable. Nice to see Dan in the trench too, makes a nice change from the young and lovely females. Where was Carenza?
Nice to see the Sail Training Association get a good plug with the t-shirt on day 1 - Debbie was most excited as it was a 'Stavros S Niarchos' t-shirt, which is the first ship she sailed on!
quote:Originally posted by humus: Angry with Tony's line that, the Dragon horn has never been built before,thats an out and out lie! it HAS on another program and they did a bloomin sight better job of it! it didnt have Chinese whistles in it either but was black with a red tounge that mooves and emitted sound !
are you sure youre not mixing up the carnyx carnyx
with a draco
the only (i think)surviving example of a draco doesnt have a tongue (although some contemporary illustrations do show dracos with tongues)
but then the records dont show dracos having a load of discs on the shaft either
I think Guy said that the "natives" did not attack the fort because of their type of attack. He did not say that they would not of used it if it had been left for them. Is there any evidence of them not doing the obvious thing. i e destroying their own defences in retreat?
Also, if Time Team had not been there, the geophys would not have been done. Surely the question is why was only part of the fort built in stone. It seems to me that TT has provided another site worth further excavation.
Regarding Helen G, are we saying that Mick & Carenza can only do medieval or that _Phil can only do pre history?
Who let that G 
woman on the site 
And, what was she doing there 
Not only is she at Cambridge but she is reckoned to be an A/S scholar. Will someone please tell me any connection between the two? On top of all this what contribution did she make to the prog.? 
yes it was obvious that there was a roman settlement there and they had to dig to find out if anything new could be learnt, just a shame that there wasn't more finds i.e. more pottery,coins,(datable).heres to next weeks tt. 
