quote:

Originally posted by Bioethanol:

quote:

Originally posted by legjoints: Do you really think the sun has suddenly got hotter in the last 50 years?

Do you thing the world has got suddenly hotter?

The 5 warmest years on record have been in the last decade. Yes, it is clear that the earth has got hotter, and this heating has been quite sudden.

quote:

Originally posted by legjoints: The 5 warmest years on record have been in the last decade. Yes, it is clear that the earth has got hotter, and this heating has been quite sudden.

Quite sudden?

Then what practical plans are you developing for the consequences?

Cos you aren't gouing to stop the world on a hunch.

quote:

Originally posted by Raver Ron:
It is no good just saying climate warming it is not caused by AGW when you can't offer an alternative explanation.

I would like to finish on this remarkable statement of non-science. It has been fun, with a little knowledge it is easy to see the lack of depth of knowledge on this subject.

quote:

Originally posted by Bioethanol:

quote:

Originally posted by mistergoode: How do you suggest we block the Sun from heating this planet?

we can't. why bother?

Exactly, we cant, so lets not pretend that we can make a huge difference, and just let nature take its GW course.


legjoints
"The 5 warmest years on record have been in the last decade. Yes, it is clear that the earth has got hotter, and this heating has been quite sudden."

5 warmest years on record, which so far hasn't made the same impact as 12,000 - 20,000 years ago when Global Warming melted enough ice to create the English channel, the Irish sea and the north sea, without human CO2.

What caused this GW?

quote:

Originally posted by mistergoode:
5 warmest years on record, which so far hasn't made the same impact as 12,000 - 20,000 years ago when Global Warming melted enough ice to create the English channel, the Irish sea and the north sea, without human CO2.

What caused this GW?

I don't think their models will go this far back, although they may try.

quote:

Originally posted by heujas:

quote:

Originally posted by Baron von Lotsov.:
So who has the last laugh there then? Check the accounts of these good causes; global warming propaganda is dished out via billions of pounds of funding.

Before you accuse the AGW theory of having an agenda. Perhaps you should look at the rubbish the skeptics have been spewing out. So far, these are the reasons skeptics give...

1. Global warming is caused by volcanoes - emissions from volcanic activity is only a 10th of human activity

2. Global warming is a cyclical event - good, in that case we should be going through a cooling period, not a warming period

3. Global warming is due to sun's irradiance - good theory except sun's irradiance has been declining in the last 25 years

4. Global warming stopped in 1998 - no the trend is still going up. 1998 was an anomaly.

OK lets go through them then.

1 Some volcanoes are said to emit more greenhouse gasses than the entire carbon of industry. I have heard that before but not done the calculations myself so I neither know whether it is correct or not. However this does not imply that they have a significant effect on global temperature, which is where the bone of contention lies. I have never seen that claim before but the volcano thing is really to say if natural greenhouse gasses dwarf man-made then cutting back on man made gasses is not going to do anything. This does not mean the natural processes like volcanoes cause global warming since this is using the contentious arguments of the GW lobby. There is some faulty logic here which I hope you can see.

2 I'd say it was not precisely cyclic because there is not a lot to drive it in a cyclic way. There is the 11-year sun spot cycle which can have an effect on the weather due to charged particles in the ionosphere and there are a few perturbations in planetary orbits, but these are not very cyclic, they are far more complex functions. Even if you look at things like pole shifts and ice ages they are not cyclic because cyclic refers to repetition at a fixed interval. They repeat but not at fixed intervals so we can pin it on something that repeats at the same rate. Ice ages appear to be nearly cyclic but pole shift are much less predictable except to say there will be another one after the last one.

3 Yes the weather is driven by the sun, it is the energy source. However you also need to look at the role of sunspots. These have been successfully used to make long-term weather forecasts of upto 6 months in advance. Insurance companies use this data to set premiums when insuring against bad weather when someone wants to take out an insurance policy for say something like an outdoor event.

4 It is foolhardy to say that the trend is this or that. You are looking at a chaotic function. It's a bit like looking at the FT 100 share index and putting a bet on whether it will go up or down in the next week. Such predictions are nearly always a gamble, you have a 50% chance of being right, but that's about it.

quote:

Originally posted by Bioethanol:

quote:

Originally posted by Raver Ron: It is no good just saying climate warming it is not caused by AGW when you can't offer an alternative explanation.

aeroplane con trails have a marked effect,
measurable a month after 911

What if its high altitude water vapour causing all the problems - turning off your telly at night isn't going to do a thing is it?

yet somehow - scientists with large research grants rarely seem to mention it when they jet in to their global conferences.

Spooky that....

Airplane Contrails Boost Global Warming, Study Suggests

We should all cut down on flying, not just scientists, and we should be campaigning for aircraft fuel to be taxed and to a halt in airport expansion. Flying is far more damaging than leaving your TV on standby so those who chose to do it should at least pay for the damage they're causing. At present they're not.

quote:

Originally posted by DaveCH:

quote:

Originally posted by Raver Ron:
It is no good just saying climate warming it is not caused by AGW when you can't offer an alternative explanation.

I would like to finish on this remarkable statement of non-science. It has been fun, with a little knowledge it is easy to see the lack of depth of knowledge on this subject.

But Dave, you've yet to offer an explanation???!!!? either to disprove the present theory or come up with an alternative?

All you've done

quote:

Originally posted by legjoints:
We should all cut down on flying, not just scientists, and we should be campaigning for aircraft fuel to be taxed and to a halt in airport expansion. Flying is far more damaging than leaving your TV on standby so those who chose to do it should at least pay for the damage they're causing. At present they're not.

I agree.

quote:

Originally posted by Raver Ron:
But Dave, you've yet to offer an explanation???!!!? either to disprove the present theory or come up with an alternative?

All you've done

You have to prove your Raving theory. Here's an alternative if you want, it's pigeon sh1t on Nelsons Column. I have never heard so much unscientific garbage in one day in my life, thanks for that both of you.

quote:

Originally posted by DaveCH:

quote:

Originally posted by mistergoode:
5 warmest years on record, which so far hasn't made the same impact as 12,000 - 20,000 years ago when Global Warming melted enough ice to create the English channel, the Irish sea and the north sea, without human CO2.

What caused this GW?

I don't think their models will go this far back, although they may try.

Exactly, thats the hilariousness of the LiveEarthers/Government fascists who tell us were bad, yet a bunch of tv makers can produce a documentary to explain it no problem.


legjoints
"We should all cut down on flying. we should be campaigning for aircraft fuel to be taxed and to a halt in airport expansion"

You should stop telling people what to do. Who the hell do you think you are demanding how we should live our lives.

quote:

Originally posted by Bioethanol:

quote:

Originally posted by legjoints: The 5 warmest years on record have been in the last decade. Yes, it is clear that the earth has got hotter, and this heating has been quite sudden.

Quite sudden?

Then what practical plans are you developing for the consequences?

I'm trying to to my bit by reducing my carbon footprint in order to avoid the consequences of global warming. I've stopped flying and I no longer have a car and now I'm looking for ways in which I can get involved in some political action since I don't believe just relying on individuals to cut their emissions is going to be enough. There needs to be (more) government action, which means we have to put more pressure on our governments to make them act.

Get our Government to act? Send them to Rada!

quote:

Originally posted by legjoints:
I'm trying to to my bit by reducing my carbon footprint in order to avoid the consequences of global warming.

Thats grand fella - but judging by the prognostications touted about - that's going to give you nowt but a damp feeling of superiority.

I'd rather the spare scientists of the world were paid to solve problems instead.

quote:

There needs to be (more) government action, which means we have to put more pressure on our governments to make them act.

It took 10 years to ban foxhunting......

10 years.

and oil stocks aint getting bigger.

Meanwhile, where is the funding to develop electric cars and bikes?

quote:

Originally posted by DaveCH:

quote:

Originally posted by Raver Ron:
But Dave, you've yet to offer an explanation???!!!? either to disprove the present theory or come up with an alternative?

All you've done

You have to prove your Raving theory. Here's an alternative if you want, it's pigeon sh1t on Nelsons Column. I have never heard so much unscientific garbage in one day in my life, thanks for that both of you.

For the benefit of Dave

I believe the general consensus that human activity of the most probably the main cause of the present climate change because I believe our greenhouse emissions, largely carbon is accumulating, and our other activities for example deforestation, is upsetting the carbon cycle and other cycles thus causing a buildup.

Now cardon dioxide is not the main greenhouse gas but even it's build up has it's bearing on the heat exchange process. The buildup of heat also has bearing on other cycles thus magnifying the problem. That is about a nutshell. I know you may not like my explanation because it sounds a bit layman. At least I provided you with a process.

Which is something you seem to keep avoiding.

quote:

Originally posted by mistergoode:

legjoints
"We should all cut down on flying. we should be campaigning for aircraft fuel to be taxed and to a halt in airport expansion"

You should stop telling people what to do. Who the hell do you think you are demanding how we should live our lives.

Saying "we should..." is not quite the same as telling someone what to do, nor is it demanding. If it were, by saying "You should stop telling people what to do" you would be telling me what to do - but since you're not telling me what to do I'll continue.

We live in a society. When the actions of an individual have an adverse effect on others in that society the members of that society have every right to proscribe that individuals actions. Ideally this is done through persuasion and codes of conduct, but when that fails it is done through legislation.

People with large carbon footprints are severely damaging the planet on which we all live. Hopefully, as more people get clued up on the science of global warming, they will voluntarily reduce their emissions, but I think legislation will also be required.

quote:

Originally posted by Raver Ron:
At least I provided you with a process.

Which is something you seem to keep avoiding.

Here's my process, pigeon lands on Nelson and dumps.

Let me explain, the proof of a theorem does not rely on the absence of another theorem. Well of course the alternative theorem is man is not majorly responsible for this bout of GW. So disprove my new improved non pigeon type theorem?

quote:

Originally posted by Bioethanol:

quote:

Originally posted by legjoints:
I'm trying to to my bit by reducing my carbon footprint in order to avoid the consequences of global warming.

Thats grand fella - but judging by the prognostications touted about - that's going to give you nowt but a damp feeling of superiority.

I agree, it doesn't look like many people are stopping or even cutting down on flying. People don't like being left with damp feelings of whatever, and they don't like feeling that while they're trying to do their bit others are carrying on polluting like there's no tomorrow. That just makes people feel like mugs, which is why I believe there has to be legislation and taxation. You have to tax the polluters. I think, in Britain at least, this would be a vote winner.

quote:

Meanwhile, where is the funding to develop electric cars and bikes?

I don't know, but if you find out let me know as I have a friend who uses bicycles to generate electicity and I think he could do with a bit of investment.

quote:

Originally posted by DaveCH:

quote:

Originally posted by Raver Ron:
At least I provided you with a process.

Which is something you seem to keep avoiding.

Here's my process, pigeon lands on Nelson and dumps.

Let me explain, the proof of a theorem does not rely on the absence of another theorem. Well of course the alternative theorem is man is not majorly responsible for this bout of GW. So disprove my new improved non pigeon type theorem?

The hostility towards the anthropogenic global warming theory is alarming.

quote:

Originally posted by legjoints:

quote:

Originally posted by Bioethanol:

quote:

Originally posted by legjoints: Do you really think the sun has suddenly got hotter in the last 50 years?

Do you thing the world has got suddenly hotter?

The 5 warmest years on record have been in the last decade. Yes, it is clear that the earth has got hotter, and this heating has been quite sudden.

To add to that

every year since 1992 has been warmer than 1992;
the ten hottest years on record occurred in the last 15;
every year since 1976 has been warmer than 1976;
the 20 hottest years on record occurred in the last 25;
every year since 1956 has been warmer than 1956; and
every year since 1917 has been warmer than 1917.


Forget it legjoints, when you present with facts, they tend to ignore it.

quote:

Originally posted by legjoints:

quote:

Meanwhile, where is the funding to develop electric cars and bikes?

I don't know, but if you find out let me know as I have a friend who uses bicycles to generate electicity and I think he could do with a bit of investment.

This is my beef with the climate change theocracy.

All this money that could be going to find practical solutions is being squandered on all these climate scientists who would otherwise be doing something useful to mankind.

The oil is running out faster than the planet is heating up.

quote:

Originally posted by mistergoode:

quote:

Originally posted by Bioethanol:

quote:

Originally posted by mistergoode: How do you suggest we block the Sun from heating this planet?

we can't. why bother?

Exactly, we cant, so lets not pretend that we can make a huge difference, and just let nature take its GW course.

Letting nature take its course means not adding to the high levels of CO2 already in the atmosphere: from 280ppm to 380ppm since the start of industrialization, the highest in a million years.

quote:

legjoints
"The 5 warmest years on record have been in the last decade. Yes, it is clear that the earth has got hotter, and this heating has been quite sudden."

5 warmest years on record, which so far hasn't made the same impact as 12,000 - 20,000 years ago when Global Warming melted enough ice to create the English channel, the Irish sea and the north sea, without human CO2.

What caused this GW?

Orbital forcing (shifts in the earth's orbit).