Thread designed specifically for Roger58 to consolidate his view of Human Nature and have those views probed by anybody interested.
Rog, if you would like to kick off with how you see the concern about AGW being primarily related to psychological deficiencies within those who advocate AGW as a threat to our long term future.
Awww Rog. Lost for words again (this is becoming a habit)? It's not difficult... all you have to do is string a few together and - hey presto! you have a real, grown up sentence! If you think human-nature has no place in a debate about humans and nature you can simply say so.
BTW, have you ever stood at the top of a block of flats and admired the view? Were you accompanied?
I think Roger needs a bit more to work on. Have you ever noticed how people seem to want to resist changes? I think this has a lot to do with their survival instinct. As soon as something changes, there is always someone that doesn't want it to happen for one reason or another.
Change disrupts. This is always so because behavioural modification is needed for the individuals that the change is applied to. Thus, the greater the degree of change, the greater the disruption and the greater the number of individuals that need to modify their behavioural responses to the varying situations. However, there are more likely to be more individuals that are unable to make those response changes required by the 'greater change', so a resistance to 'change itself' becomes apparent as these individuals make known their 'disapproval' of change. Thus the 'anti-change' lobby is borne. As communications improve and global awareness gets bigger, the problem increases.
I think Roger needs a bit more to work on. Have you ever noticed how people seem to want to resist changes? I think this has a lot to do with their survival instinct. As soon as something changes, there is always someone that doesn't want it to happen for one reason or another.
Change disrupts. This is always so because behavioural modification is needed for the individuals that the change is applied to. Thus, the greater the degree of change, the greater the disruption and the greater the number of individuals that need to modify their behavioural responses to the varying situations. However, there are more likely to be more individuals that are unable to make those response changes required by the 'greater change', so a resistance to 'change itself' becomes apparent as these individuals make known their 'disapproval' of change. Thus the 'anti-change' lobby is borne. As communications improve and global awareness gets bigger, the problem increases.
Roger58, you can take it from here.
Best regards, suricat.
Suricat, I read "The Prince" early on which is where I get my wickedness from I suppose !!
This thread was a forlorn hope that we could avoid Rog's constant sidetracking of threads with psycho-babble that was proving an irritant to some.
Personally I find it amusing and will happily engage with him here but no longer wish to impinge on other more meaningful debates.
Sadly its clearly not part of his game.
BTW, what is the game for attention deficit syndrome?
Originally posted by Lucibee: I'd like to hijack this one and ask what all of you are planning to do or are already doing about AGW and its potential effects on your own lives...
I gave up my consultancy business driving 30K miles pa to take a job locally. At some cost !!
I'd like to hijack this one and ask what all of you are planning to do or are already doing about AGW and its potential effects on your own lives...
I'll preface by saying I'm not a saint. But then again, I'm not a hypocrite because the realities of climate change are a separate matter to what I'm prepared to do about it. But here goes:
I've always lived very close to work to minimise travel emissions. I have an efficient(ish) small-engined car which any normal ( )person would have replaced by now (it's 14 years old, but it's a Toyota so has a few years left in it). Last year I replaced all my remaining light bulbs with compact fluorescents. I also audited my house for stand-by power costs. I now turn off the following items at the plug saving an average of 10 Watts each (about 10 quid a year) - microwave, broadband router, phone in a room I don't use much, PC, DVD player, washing machine (I was surprised that this used power when not turned on), freezer (only kidding). Also cut temperatures on the washing machine and use the express cycle on the dish washer. We're careful with water (6 cubic metres a month for 2). Then again Devon water is very expensive. My partner and I developed a house this year for renting out. We bought the most efficient boiler, fit compact fluorescents, and insulated the house as much as we could all at added cost that won't be reflected in the rent. We also insulated my parents' house. We're investigating a wind turbine as our house has quite a good aspect. We recycle and compost, and reuse carrier bags.
I'd like to hijack this one and ask what all of you are planning to do or are already doing about AGW and its potential effects on your own lives...
After the summer we've just had I went out and purchased a good thick coat cos if GW shuts down the Atlantic conveyor its gonna get colder round here PS TS this is not a joke
Originally posted by Lucibee: I'd like to hijack this one and ask what all of you are planning to do or are already doing about AGW and its potential effects on your own lives...
I gave up my consultancy business driving 30K miles pa to take a job locally. At some cost !!
If you did this just to cut down on Carbon foot print you'll be happy to know that I've recently taken up an overseas posting (in the oil industry) that sees me travelling long haul monthly (there and back).
We went to Dubai in the October Holidays and to celebrate a good year at work we're going to New York in the New Year.
When I build a garage on our property next year we'll have to cut down several tree's but to compensate for this I'll buy the wife a Land Rover so she can take a few plastic bags the six miles it is to the nearest recycling center.
Originally posted by mufcdiver: After the summer we've just had I went out and purchased a good thick coat cos if GW shuts down the Atlantic conveyor its gonna get colder round here PS TS this is not a joke
Good job you told me or I wouldn't have noticed. I feel such a fool for laughing. Of course, dead-pan works better in person.
So, you think the Atlantic Conveyor might shut down? How soon?
Originally posted by Mubbers: We went to Dubai in the October Holidays and to celebrate a good year at work we're going to New York in the New Year.
When I build a garage on our property next year we'll have to cut down several tree's but to compensate for this I'll buy the wife a Land Rover so she can take a few plastic bags the six miles it is to the nearest recycling center.
I'd like to hijack this one and ask what all of you are planning to do or are already doing about AGW and its potential effects on your own lives...
I've been thinking about this and I need help.
Lots of my income and the money I spend goes on taxes and I have no control over how that money is spent by the government. I get a chance to vote every few years but don't see much of a difference. The tax gets used for heating public buildings, tarmaccing roads, paying public servants, flying politicians all round the world and providing ministerial gas guzzlers etc . All of this generates CO2.
If I ask for less pay then my boss gets more pay and spends it on a bigger car or house so creates CO2.
Of the money I have left -
If I save some by reducing my CO2 footprint then what should I do with it? Already, as I've reduced demand for energy, its price will go down, someone else will use that energy for heating their new home, fueling their first car (probably an eternal second hand Toyota) etc all of which generates CO2.
If I put my money in the bank it will be used by enterprise which will produce lots of CO2.
If I put my money under the bed, demand for fuel lowers and so others will afford to create CO2 in my stead.
I could burn the money but that produces CO2 and demand lowers ....
If I buy a wind power generator than the owner of the windpower company will buy a leer jet to fly the world managing his windpower business, or a leisure motor cruiser or a swimming pool or all these and produce oodles of CO2.
If I buy land and grow trees then the land owner will spend the money on CO2 producing activities. Probably the same person who owns the windpower company.
I did think of building 20,000 nuclear powerstations but the green lobby wouldn't let me, and anyway I didn't have enough dosh stashed under my bed. Similar problem with my tidal barrage plan.
I'd like to hijack this one and ask what all of you are planning to do or are already doing about AGW and its potential effects on your own lives...
I've been thinking about this and I need help.
Lots of my income and the money I spend goes on taxes and I have no control over how that money is spent by the government. I get a chance to vote every few years but don't see much of a difference. The tax gets used for heating public buildings, tarmaccing roads, paying public servants, flying politicians all round the world and providing ministerial gas guzzlers etc . All of this generates CO2.
If I ask for less pay then my boss gets more pay and spends it on a bigger car or house so creates CO2.
Of the money I have left -
If I save some by reducing my CO2 footprint then what should I do with it? Already, as I've reduced demand for energy, its price will go down, someone else will use that energy for heating their new home, fueling their first car (probably an eternal second hand Toyota) etc all of which generates CO2.
If I put my money in the bank it will be used by enterprise which will produce lots of CO2.
If I put my money under the bed, demand for fuel lowers and so others will afford to create CO2 in my stead.
I could burn the money but that produces CO2 and demand lowers ....
If I buy a wind power generator than the owner of the windpower company will buy a leer jet to fly the world managing his windpower business, or a leisure motor cruiser or a swimming pool or all these and produce oodles of CO2.
If I buy land and grow trees then the land owner will spend the money on CO2 producing activities. Probably the same person who owns the windpower company.
I did think of building 20,000 nuclear powerstations but the green lobby wouldn't let me, and anyway I didn't have enough dosh stashed under my bed. Similar problem with my tidal barrage plan.
So what should I do? Please help.
It does appear to be pretty hopeless doesn't it? But then, as in any crisis, there will be some that standup and fight and do their bit and others that cower in the corner.
If I save some by reducing my CO2 footprint then what should I do with it? Already, as I've reduced demand for energy, its price will go down, someone else will use that energy for heating their new home, fueling their first car (probably an eternal second hand Toyota) etc all of which generates CO2.
To a point I agree with you. But it's not quite as straightforward as that. Obviously low prices mean that more people can afford to use, or waste, the stuff. And high prices make it more cost effective to fly Mubbers across the world to find oil till he gets DVT 10 times over (or his wife runs off with the local farmer in her shiny new landrover ).
That's why action from the top is needed to limit extraction of oil by combined global agreement and market forces. Eg. higher taxes will cut the profits and make it less cost effective to extract more oil and more cost effective to use other energy sources. Increased efficiency of cars etc. should be enforced, but measures should also be in place to balance the reduction in oil prices that would result from lower demand. Then you have a zero sum game where everyone is still allowed to drive their battered Toyotas, they pay more or less the same per mile despite improved efficiencies, and more oil is left in the ground for future generations to decide what they do with it.
Originally posted by Mubbers: We went to Dubai in the October Holidays and to celebrate a good year at work we're going to New York in the New Year.
When I build a garage on our property next year we'll have to cut down several tree's but to compensate for this I'll buy the wife a Land Rover so she can take a few plastic bags the six miles it is to the nearest recycling center.
Originally posted by Lucibee: I'd like to hijack this one and ask what all of you are planning to do or are already doing about AGW and its potential effects on your own lives...
I gave up my consultancy business driving 30K miles pa to take a job locally. At some cost !!
If you did this just to cut down on Carbon foot print you'll be happy to know that I've recently taken up an overseas posting (in the oil industry) that sees me travelling long haul monthly (there and back).
The balance of nature is beautiful isn't it ;-)
Just as Lucibee suggested you might. Oh well, foiled again. On the other hand, I exchanged wealth for riches and am delirously happy about that ! Hope you are enjoying staring at the four walls of your hotel romm !!
Originally posted by Lucibee: I'd like to hijack this one and ask what all of you are planning to do or are already doing about AGW and its potential effects on your own lives...
I gave up my consultancy business driving 30K miles pa to take a job locally. At some cost !!
If you did this just to cut down on Carbon foot print you'll be happy to know that I've recently taken up an overseas posting (in the oil industry) that sees me travelling long haul monthly (there and back).
The balance of nature is beautiful isn't it ;-)
Just as Lucibee suggested you might. Oh well, foiled again. On the other hand, I exchanged wealth for riches and am delirously happy about that ! Hope you are enjoying staring at the four walls of your hotel romm !!
If only I could post a picture of where I am...
I'm deep in the Sahara desert. We're high up; under a deep blue sky that's just turning to dusk there is an endless sea of golden red dunes stretching off beyond the horizon on all sides.
Sunset in a hour or so will be spectacular. During darkness the sky is crystal clear and the stars you can see are amazing.
Originally posted by Lucibee: I'd like to hijack this one and ask what all of you are planning to do or are already doing about AGW and its potential effects on your own lives...
I gave up my consultancy business driving 30K miles pa to take a job locally. At some cost !!
If you did this just to cut down on Carbon foot print you'll be happy to know that I've recently taken up an overseas posting (in the oil industry) that sees me travelling long haul monthly (there and back).
The balance of nature is beautiful isn't it ;-)
Just as Lucibee suggested you might. Oh well, foiled again. On the other hand, I exchanged wealth for riches and am delirously happy about that ! Hope you are enjoying staring at the four walls of your hotel romm !!
If only I could post a picture of where I am...
I'm deep in the Sahara desert. We're high up; under a deep blue sky that's just turning to dusk there is an endless sea of golden red dunes stretching off beyond the horizon on all sides.
Sunset in a hour or so will be spectacular. During darkness the sky is crystal clear and the stars you can see are amazing.
If only you could see it too.
Yes BUT, tonight you missed Strictly Come Dancing - It Takes Two, Coronation Street and I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here on the telly !!
If its so good, why not follow Lucibee's advice and enjoy it instead of spending your time on this forum?? !!
)person would have replaced by now (it's 14 years old, but it's a Toyota so has a few years left in it).
