"Experts" keep on moaning about bio fuels saying their not cutting carbon enough or bio fuels are raising carbon but infuriatingly missing the point that we still need to find and USE more alternatives for oil!!!!!!
Do they really think that we can carry on using oil at the current crazy rate that we do and it will all be allright as long as "we cut our carbon footprint, oh errr"!!!!!?
This really is a serious point. People everywhere, influentiasl groups everywhere are only banging on about cutting carbon footprints, givng the false subconcious impression that oil will never run out when it will! These moaners as well as trying to find ways of cutting carbon at the same time need to think of viable alternatives to ALL of the major energy we use unless they wanna go back about 400 years to living in mud huts, straw huts if they can find the wood and use horse back as means of "travel again"!!!!!
The 'experts' are also moaning about bio-fuels because they are reducing the supply of grain and increasing food prices. Which seems like a valid concern to me.
Originally posted by THE DECIDER: "Experts" keep on moaning about bio fuels saying their not cutting carbon enough or bio fuels are raising carbon but infuriatingly missing the point that we still need to find and USE more alternatives for oil!!!!!!
Do they really think that we can carry on using oil at the current crazy rate that we do and it will all be allright as long as "we cut our carbon footprint, oh errr"!!!!!?
This really is a serious point. People everywhere, influentiasl groups everywhere are only banging on about cutting carbon footprints, givng the false subconcious impression that oil will never run out when it will! These moaners as well as trying to find ways of cutting carbon at the same time need to think of viable alternatives to ALL of the major energy we use unless they wanna go back about 400 years to living in mud huts, straw huts if they can find the wood and use horse back as means of "travel again"!!!!!
How would you feel about investing in research into greener alternatives to oil?
Originally posted by Spican: The 'experts' are also moaning about bio-fuels because they are reducing the supply of grain and increasing food prices. Which seems like a valid concern to me.
I held my breath for 67 seconds and that means I have saved 1/60x24 Kg in CO2 (given I shamelessly produce a Kg a day by breathing). If we all did it for as long as we could we could make a difference.
Originally posted by Spican: The 'experts' are also moaning about bio-fuels because they are reducing the supply of grain and increasing food prices. Which seems like a valid concern to me.
I thought we had mountains of excess grain?
Took me a moment to find an 'allowed' website to link to:
Originally posted by Spican: The 'experts' are also moaning about bio-fuels because they are reducing the supply of grain and increasing food prices. Which seems like a valid concern to me.
We can't have it both ways or should I say whatever the amount of times it is that we use oil and still expect cheap food!
Wwe want, 2 car familes, 26-32 Million cars in the UK alone trains, 5 flights a day from every airport to every destination and oh no you can't use alternatives if it means farmers will produce less food and charge us more a s aresult!
The farmers are probably swingong the lead anyway with a lot of them paid to grow nothing before all of this came about!
Thats another thing, the "experts" keep on making out their ain't enough land in the world to use bio fuels! They must think we where all born yesterday! The UK only has about 12% of its land actually developed on! The rest of it is green in one way or the other!
I'l tell you right now, for me its energy ALWAYS first, and cut whatever carbon we can but we can't stop using differnet energy because without it we will not have civilisation AT ALL! Never mind the odd flood here and their!
My understanding is that Bio-Fuel like Hydrogen Power cells, still needs to consume energy (notionally Fossil fuel energy) to produce power from these sources in useable forms and that it still requires more energy to produce the stuff than it actually contains!
This means unless there is a process that create Bio-Fuel in the amount that it would be required, in the time scale which allows supply a chance of meeting demand and to do so without needing any; or minimal, energy input to produce, it is probably not much af an alternative at all!
They'l get their Spam, but if they try and shoot it down before it can get their of course it won't achieve fixing that anomoly!
What are these experts gonna do when very soon the oil will run out? Do they really think with China and India, both countries having populations of over a billion and the rest of the developing world is gonna make oil last longer? It will run out beofre we know it but still the whole stupid world carries on regardless with their heads in the cloud on this issue carrying on with their high consumption of the stuff as if it will nevr run out but it so will!
Originally posted by Sampanviking: My understanding is that Bio-Fuel like Hydrogen Power cells, still needs to consume energy (notionally Fossil fuel energy) to produce power from these sources in useable forms and that it still requires more energy to produce the stuff than it actually contains!
My understanding is that the same is true for oil.
Originally posted by THE DECIDER: We can't have it both ways or should I say whatever the amount of times it is that we use oil and still expect cheap food!
Wwe want, 2 car familes, 26-32 Million cars in the UK alone trains, 5 flights a day from every airport to every destination and oh no you can't use alternatives if it means farmers will produce less food and charge us more a s aresult!
The farmers are probably swingong the lead anyway with a lot of them paid to grow nothing before all of this came about!
Thats another thing, the "experts" keep on making out their ain't enough land in the world to use bio fuels! They must think we where all born yesterday! The UK only has about 12% of its land actually developed on! The rest of it is green in one way or the other!
I'l tell you right now, for me its energy ALWAYS first, and cut whatever carbon we can but we can't stop using differnet energy because without it we will not have civilisation AT ALL! Never mind the odd flood here and their!
Well given a choice between air travel, cars and food I think most people would opt to keep the food supply going don't you?
Seriously, there are other alternatives. A good mixture of fuel sources should hopefully prevent us from being held over a barrel by Russia or middle-eastern countries.
Originally posted by THE DECIDER: What are these experts gonna do when very soon the oil will run out? Do they really think with China and India, both countries having populations of over a billion and the rest of the developing world is gonna make oil last longer? It will run out beofre we know it but still the whole stupid world carries on regardless with their heads in the cloud on this issue carrying on with their high consumption of the stuff as if it will nevr run out but it so will!
My Golf GTI runs fine on a mixture of weetabix and runny honey.
As regards resource, not carbon footprint for a sec - and I'm not suggesting we don't try to preserve fuel - a finite resource is always going to run out sometime, it's just a matter of "when", obviously. In which case, why don't we just use it and stop worrying? I mean - if we cut our oil consumption by 1/2, then the reserves would last twice as long. Then what?
We could walk or ride horses, have holidays in our garden whilst staring at all the precious oil in the ground. "Can't use it else it will run out".
OK, climate change un all that...I know.
If we have any responsibility to the planet it is to find alternative and renewable energy sources. In the lifetime of the planet, in terms of time the oil age will be (have been) a speck of sand on the beach. It was there to be exploited once we were bright enough. It should be used as a window during which time we can develop said renewables to pass on to future generations to whom we will be known as the "greedy b*st*rds".
The real frightener is air travel. Whilst cars can run on old chip fat (now there's an export market for Scotland...) so far as I'm aware the A380 doesn't.
Biofuel is idiotic. It is the most inefficient way to produce energy. Also the oil is not running out or at least it wont for a good hundred years at least. You might think the oil is running out due to the oil company's peak oil scam but this is bogus as well. I have spoken to people in the oil industry on more than one occasion who report they are actively capping good productive oil wells in order to reduce supply and jack up the price.
Finally if you want to know what I'd do, I would go over to generating more power using nuclear instead of oil powered power stations and invest in nuclear fusion. Once fusion is working nicely we can use the power to convert water into hydrogen as a means of compact fuel for mobile use, as in cars. It too is not economic at the moment but as I say nuclear fusion could possibly end up generating electricity at a fraction of the cost and hence making up for the loss incurred with conversion from one energy form to another.
If you want a food shortage then get into biofuel. Don't come running to me when you have no food though!
Nice one spican to acknowledge you've seen the light on this point.
The world needs to go beyond bio fuels NOW too though in order to have any chance of stopping the pumps running dry. The alternatives you mentioned in your other post is more to do with electricy production which is very important too, but electricity can be made with coal and gas even though I don't like gas being used to make electricity, but their isn't coal run cars, so its very important to find alternatives in oil for car, plane, ships train use etc etc.
The world needs to preserve all of its energy and use it very very smartly in order to have nay chance that we carry on living the way we do otherwise we do go back hundreds of years in the way we live and live shorter lives no doubt.
The other resources you mentioned in your previous post Spican is more to do with energy resources to make electricity which is also very important, but electricity can be made with coal where you can't use coal for cars and planes.
You can also use gas to make electricity even though I think the world should stop using gas for electricity production and stick to coal because the gas will run out too quickly.
Yes I know the green worries about coal but theirs much more supply of coal than their is oil and gas so its smart to use coal as cleanly as possible but even if we couldn't clean it, I think its crazy ditiching coal and use the less available and will run out quicker oil and gas to make electricity.
Is it possible to open new coal mines close to the ones we closed down? Their must be a way!
what we need to do is reduce the current population of this palanet. whens all said and done, there are too many people for this planet to sustain, without us all living in mud huts! and even then that would produce enough food to feed us.
C'mon don't be so short sighted! 100 years left of oil, thats ok? Don't you think that prediction is baes on current and past demand? Channel 4 news said last year that cureently China only has 10 Million cars, whatever the figure how long do you think oil will last when China and India and the MAJORITY of their populations start driving cars and using flights like we do?
Nuclear power can help reduce oil and gas needs in making electricty which is a help but nuke power won't power planes orcars will it?
Another point in on the hunded years "point" is that anyone having kids now, their kids, your grandchildren will be the ones who will experience the oil running out! If their is at least 100 years of oil left I bet that will be down to 30 years once the developed world gets going! Its so obvious! Please don't fall into the false sense of security on this until viable long lasting laternatives come out for every type of thing that we need resources for and so far those alternatives are not their enough!
Whilst not taking away my concerns on the above posts generally, I missed your point on using water to make hydrogen power, how viable is this really? Isn't hydrogen a gas? How can water make it? What about alternatives for plane use?
In any case I think the world needs to cut down bigtime on the amount of flights we all take. 5 a day to most destinations is just a luxury. The whole world, the UN, EU, should make 3 flights a day maximum to any destination and if it means we have to wait longer or re-arrange our plans which won't be hard, so be it!
C'mon don't be so short sighted! 100 years left of oil, thats ok? Don't you think that prediction is baes on current and past demand? Channel 4 news said last year that cureently China only has 10 Million cars, whatever the figure how long do you think oil will last when China and India and the MAJORITY of their populations start driving cars and using flights like we do?
Nuclear power can help reduce oil and gas needs in making electricty which is a help but nuke power won't power planes orcars will it?
Another point in on the hunded years "point" is that anyone having kids now, their kids, your grandchildren will be the ones who will experience the oil running out! If their is at least 100 years of oil left I bet that will be down to 30 years once the developed world gets going! Its so obvious! Please don't fall into the false sense of security on this until viable long lasting laternatives come out for every type of thing that we need resources for and so far those alternatives are not their enough!
Come on, please read my post. I just explained that you could use electricity to produce hydrogen from water. All you are effectively doing though is storing that energy because hydrogen in one tank and oxygen in another has more energy than when they are together, as in H2O. You can burn hydrogen by a small mod to the carb and petrol tank of a standard production car. It is 100% clean as well, which is a real bonus if you live in a city.
I missed your point on the hydro power and yuo missed the above of mine saying that, I'l kust copy the rest which hasn't been answered tthough.....
What about alternatives for plane use?
In any case I think the world needs to cut down bigtime on the amount of flights we all take. 5 a day to most destinations is just a luxury. The whole world, the UN, EU, should make 3 flights a day maximum to any destination and if it means we have to wait longer or re-arrange our plans which won't be hard, so be it![/quote]
A friend of mine built his own gas-powered jet engine which ran on propane. Now that was in his garage so I'm sure the engineers will come up with something. The root source of infinite power though is in nuclear fusion. These people are taking far too long about it and the investment is far less than the propaganda on global warming.
This is what gets me about our society. People actually think they are making a difference by printing up loads of propaganda when in fact they should be giving that money to clever people, like nuclear physicists and engineers.
