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Three Silver Stars
Posted
This is more of what Carl Wunsch has to say about the way The Great Global Warming Swindle misrepresented him:

“The company I keep in this film makes me very uncomfortable,” he
said. “Why Me? I was duped. Perhaps my English colleagues might have
recognised Martin Durkin’s name and said no. I didn’t recognise the name.”

He told the Observer: “I explained that warming the ocean was damaging
because it will release more carbon dioxide. They used it to claim that
carbon dioxide is all natural.” He added: “I could forgive someone not
understanding the issues. This seems like a deliberate attempt to exploit
someone.”

“We should be trying to explain to the public what we do and do not
understand. I feel my time was wasted, the public were misled, and an
opportunity was kicked away.”

http://www.badscience.net/?p=383
 
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I still can't help but feel he got cold feet after the programme went out. And I can't see how he's been misled or misquoted.

For info, I found this link which has a transcript of all of Wunsch's quotes in the programme.

http://www.globalwarminghype.com/

So everyone can read it on this posting I've cut and pasted the relevant bits below plus the bloggers introduction:


"In this portion of the discussion, Professor Wunsch begins by explaining how the ocean's surface temperature plays a role in the exchange of carbon dioxide. He later comments on the vastness of the oceans, and their extremely slow reaction to any changes in climate as a result of such vastness.

Professor Wunsch:
25:43 The ocean is the major reservoir into which carbon dioxide goes when it comes out of the atmosphere or to from which it is re-emitted to the the atmosphere. If you heat the surface of the ocean, it tends to emit carbon dioxide. Similarly, if you cool the ocean surface, the ocean can dissolve more carbon dioxide.

Professor Wunsch:
26:44 - The ocean has a memory of past events ugh running out as far as 10,000 years. So for example, if somebody says oh I'm seeing changes in the North Atlantic, this must mean that the climate system is changing, it may only mean that something happened in a remote part of the ocean decades or hundreds of years ago who's effects are now beginning to show up in the North Atlantic.

In this portion of the film, the professor is speaking about the complexity of climate models and how their results can be greatly influenced by the input data they are given.

Professor Wunsch:
49:22 - The models are so complicated, you can often adjust them is such a way that they do something very exciting.

Professor Wunsch:
50:46 - Even within the scientific community you see, it's a problem. If I run a complicated model and I do something to it like ugh melt a lot of ice into the ocean and nothing happens, ugh it's not likely to get printed. But if I run the same model, and I adjust it in such a way that something dramatic happens to the ocean circulation like the heat transport turns off, ugh it will be published. People will say this is very exciting. It will even get picked by the media. So there is a bias, there's is a very powerful bias within the media, and within the science community itself, toward results which are ugh dramatizable. If Earth freezes over, that's a much more interesting story than saying well you know it ugh fluctuates around, sometimes the mass flux goes up by 10%, sometimes it goes down by 20%, but eventually it comes back. Well you know, which would you do a story on? That's what it's about."
 
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Dev
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Read the Observer and the Independent and saw the programme.

To state that the programme claimed that all CO2 ws natural is certainly going out on the limb. Prof. Wunsch was quite the advocate that something was not right with the carbon emmission lobby and I find it difficult to conclude unless there was some extremely clever editing to infer anything that would be interpreted as “I explained that warming the ocean was damaging because it will release more carbon dioxide".

Yes, the ocean is a store of carbon and dissolved carbon dioxide. But let us not forget that CO2 and water does give carbonic acid and coral is calcium carbonate. The amount of heat required to release this is great.
quote:
Originally posted by Robbie Writer:
This is more of what Carl Wunsch has to say about the way The Great Global Warming Swindle misrepresented him:

“The company I keep in this film makes me very uncomfortable,” he
said. “Why Me? I was duped. Perhaps my English colleagues might have
recognised Martin Durkin’s name and said no. I didn’t recognise the name.”

He told the Observer: “I explained that warming the ocean was damaging
because it will release more carbon dioxide. They used it to claim that
carbon dioxide is all natural.” He added: “I could forgive someone not
understanding the issues. This seems like a deliberate attempt to exploit
someone.”

“We should be trying to explain to the public what we do and do not
understand. I feel my time was wasted, the public were misled, and an
opportunity was kicked away.”

http://www.badscience.net/?p=383
 
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Three Silver Stars
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Well there is no inference from what he actually says in the documentary that he has now got "cold feet" as you put it.

The misrepresentation is quite clear from what Carl Wunsch says in the Observer:

“I explained that warming the ocean was damaging
because it will release more carbon dioxide. They used it to claim that carbon dioxide is all natural.”
 
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Three Silver Stars
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And lets not forget that Channel4 have had to apologise for Martin Durkin's misrepresentation of scientists before.
 
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Three Silver Stars
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He said what he said.

If the programme makers used it to make a point that Much didn't want to make then he should have been more careful about what he said.

There is no way getting round what he said. The words stand for themselves. And actually they make a lot of sense to me. The earth's processes are slow not fast, and what is happening now could well be a reaction to something that happened hundreds of years ago.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Dev:

To state that the programme claimed that all CO2 ws natural is certainly going out on the limb.


I don't recall the programme claiming that CO2 is natural. They had an animation representing everything that produced CO2 - trees, plants, animals and factories.
 
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One Silver Star
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quote:
Originally posted by DandyDickens:
I still can't help but feel he got cold feet after the programme went out. And I can't see how he's been misled or misquoted.


I think if you rationally analyse what he said in the programme, none of it says that mankind can't have an affect of Global Warming. He was explaining how the complexity of climatic systems make the human influences so difficult to gauge, and that yes, sometimes the computer modelling and science reporting can be biased toward whatever is eye-catching.

The programme used that as evidence to prove that mankind is completely innocent of having any influence on the climate, which is clearly not the same thing.

Isn't that what upsets Wunsch so much?
 
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Four Silver Stars
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RObbiewriter says channel4 has to apologise before for Durkins for misrepresenting scientists. This is just a prime example of the lies of the pro AGW brigade in this forum. Channel4 was cautioned for not briefing four participants adequately before the program.

Poor research, lies and cut and paste define the pro AGW lobby here
 
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Three Silver Stars
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It is not a lie or poor research.

Issue:
"Four of the complaints came from contributors to the programmes. All four were distinguished environmentalists, who said that they had been misled as to the content and the purpose of the programmes, and that their known views had been distorted by editing."

Conclusion:
"However, the programmes breached the Programme Code in respect of the failure to make the four interviewees adequately aware of the nature of the programmes, and the way their contributions were edited."

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/itc/itc_publicat...complaint_id=40.html

Therefore, the scientists complaints that the editing was distorted (or as I put it misrepresented) were upheld and Channel4 had to apologise on air.

So What's in your mind, get your facts straight!!! I wasn't lying I had researched my facts. I suggest that study the facts yourself before ridiculous accusations that you can't possibly justify.
 
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Four Silver Stars
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Having triple exclamation mark does not make you right, here is the full quote of the conclusion

Conclusion

The ITC did not uphold the majority of the complaints. However, the programmes breached the Programme Code in respect of the failure to make the four interviewees adequately aware of the nature of the programmes, and the way their contributions were edited. The Commission directed Channel 4 to issue an on-screen apology to the individuals concerned. The apology was transmitted on Sunday 5 April.

How does this differ from what I said in my post?
 
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Three Silver Stars
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quote:
Originally posted by What's in your mind:
here is the full quote of the conclusion

Conclusion

The ITC did not uphold the majority of the complaints. However, the programmes breached the Programme Code in respect of the failure to make the four interviewees adequately aware of the nature of the programmes, and the way their contributions were edited. The Commission directed Channel 4 to issue an on-screen apology to the individuals concerned. The apology was transmitted on Sunday 5 April.

How does this differ from what I said in my post?


Well you said "RObbiewriter says channel4 has to apologise before for Durkins for misrepresenting scientists. This is just a prime example of the lies of the pro AGW brigade in this forum"

But Channel4 did have to apologise for Durkins misrepresenting scientists, by distoring them through editing.

You also said "Channel4 was cautioned for not briefing four participants adequately before the program."

That was just one of the two parts of the upheld complaint. Which is selective but fair enough that is your choice.

But accusing me of lying for mentioning the second part of the upheld complaint was wrong.
 
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Four Silver Stars
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OK fair enough
 
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Four Silver Stars
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Copy of Carl Wunsch's response to the programme "The Great Climate Swindle." From RealClimate.

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/03/s...arl-wunsch-responds/

Partial Response to the London Channel 4 Film "The Global Warming Swindle"
Carl Wunsch 11 March 2007

I believe that climate change is real, a major threat, and almost surely has a major human-induced component. But I have tried to stay out of the `climate wars' because all nuance tends to be lost, and the distinction between what we know firmly, as scientists, and what we suspect is happening, is so difficult to maintain in the presence of rhetorical excess. In the long run, our credibility as scientists rests on being very careful of, and protective of, our authority and expertise.

The science of climate change remains incomplete. Some elements are so firmly based on well-understood principles, or for which the observational record is so clear, that most scientists would agree that they are almost surely true (adding CO2 to the atmosphere is dangerous; sea level will continue to rise,...). Other elements remain more uncertain, but we as scientists in our roles as informed citizens believe society should be deeply concerned about their possibility: failure of US midwestern precipitation in 100 years in a mega-drought; melting of a large part of the Greenland ice sheet, among many other examples.

I am on record in a number of places complaining about the over-dramatization and unwarranted extrapolation of scientific facts. Thus the notion that the Gulf Stream would or could "shut off" or that with global warming Britain would go into a "new ice age" are either scientifically impossible or so unlikely as to threaten our credibility as a scientific discipline if we proclaim their reality [i.e. see this previous RC post]. They also are huge distractions from more immediate and realistic threats. I've paid more attention to the extreme claims in the literature warning of coming catastrophe, both because I regard the scientists there as more serious, and because I am very sympathetic to the goals of my colleagues who sometimes seem, however, to be confusing their specific scientific knowledge with their worries about the future.

When approached by WAGTV, on behalf of Channel 4, known to me as one of the main UK independent broadcasters, I was led to believe that I would be given an opportunity to explain why I, like some others, find the statements at both extremes of the global change debate distasteful. I am, after all a teacher, and this seemed like a good opportunity to explain why, for example, I thought more attention should be paid to sea level rise, which is ongoing and unstoppable and carries a real threat of acceleration, than to the unsupportable claims that the ocean circulation was undergoing shutdown (Nature, December 2005).

I wanted to explain why observing the ocean was so difficult, and why it is so tricky to predict with any degree of confidence such important climate elements as its heat and carbon storage and transports in 10 or 100 years. I am distrustful of prediction scenarios for details of the ocean circulation that rely on extremely complicated coupled models that run out for decades to thousands of years. The science is not sufficiently mature to say which of the many complex elements of such forecasts are skillful. Nonetheless, and contrary to the impression given in the film, I firmly believe there is a great deal to be learned from models. With effort, all of this is explicable in terms the public can understand.

In the part of the "Swindle" film where I am describing the fact that the ocean tends to expel carbon dioxide where it is warm, and to absorb it where it is cold, my intent was to explain that warming the ocean could be dangerous---because it is such a gigantic reservoir of carbon. By its placement in the film, it appears that I am saying that since carbon dioxide exists in the ocean in such large quantities, human influence must not be very important --- diametrically opposite to the point I was making --- which is that global warming is both real and threatening in many different ways, some unexpected.

Many of us feel an obligation to talk to the media---it's part of our role as scientists, citizens, and educators. The subjects are complicated, and it is easy to be misquoted or quoted out context. My experience in the past is that these things do happen, but usually inadvertently --- most reporters really do want to get it right.

Channel 4 now says they were making a film in a series of "polemics". There is nothing in the communication we had (much of it on the telephone or with the film crew on the day they were in Boston) that suggested they were making a film that was one-sided, anti-educational, and misleading. I took them at face value---clearly a great error. I knew I had no control over the actual content, but it never occurred to me that I was dealing with people who already had a reputation for distortion and exaggeration.

The letter I sent them as soon as I heard about the actual program is below. [available here]

As a society, we need to take out insurance against catastrophe in the same way we take out homeowner's protection against fire. I buy fire insurance, but I also take the precaution of having the wiring in the house checked, keeping the heating system up to date, etc., all the while hoping that I won't need the insurance. Will any of these precautions work? Unexpected things still happen (lightning strike? plumber's torch igniting the woodwork?). How large a fire insurance premium is it worth paying? How much is it worth paying for rewiring the house? $10,000 but perhaps not $100,000? There are no simple answers even at this mundane level.

How much is it worth to society to restrain CO2 emissions --- will that guarantee protection against global warming? Is it sensible to subsidize insurance for people who wish to build in regions strongly susceptible to coastal flooding? These and others are truly complicated questions where often the science is not mature enough give definitive answers, much as we would like to be able to provide them. Scientifically, we can recognize the reality of the threat, and much of what society needs to insure against. Statements of concern do not need to imply that we have all the answers. Channel 4 had an opportunity to elucidate some of this. The outcome is sad.
 
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Four Silver Stars
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Prof Wunsch's actual letter to C4 reproduced here at RealClimate.

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/03/swindled/#comment-27434

My advice to Channel 4. Pull the programme now until you can re-screen with a suitable rebuttal programme of equal length to expose the flaws in the misbegotten mockumentary "The Great GW Swindle".
 
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One Silver Star
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Perhaps the IPCC will then follow suit on it's report?
 
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Three Silver Stars
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The IPCC has produced a report with the consent of 1000s of scientists. It is the most accurate report on the causes of climate change to date.

Whereas Martin Durkin is a discredited documentary-maker.

Little comparison.
 
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Two Silver Stars
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It wasnt Durkin I was listening to but the contributions of the ten professors and several Doctors.

Oh by the way Carl Wunsch definately stated that CO2 is released from Warm Seas And absorbed in cold seas.He also stated that parameters of models were changed to give more exciting results for publication.
 
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The IPCC unfortunately does not have an unblemished record of maintaining its itegrity. It was caught out for political bias and choosing 2nd rate authors who supported a particular view in 2005.

House of Lords Select Committee on Economic Affairs Second Report:
"118. Overall, we are concerned that the IPCC process could be improved by rethinking the role that government-nominated representatives play in the procedures, and by ensuring that the appointment of authors is above reproach. If scientists are charged with writing the main chapters, it seems to us they must be trusted to write the summaries of their chapters without intervention from others. Similarly, scientists should be appointed because of their scientific credentials, and not because they take one or other view in the climate debate. The IPCC publications as a whole contain some of the most valuable summary information available to the world on what we know about climate change. The standards employed are clearly very high. But this is all the more reason to ensure that procedures are unimpeachable. At the moment, it seems to us that the emissions scenarios are influenced by political considerations and, more broadly, that the economics input into the IPCC is in some danger of being sidelined. We call on the Government to make every effort to ensure that these risks are minimised."
 
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