I don't think the cane is the answer, for the reasons that blocrocker gave

I do think that more discipline is needed though. Schools should, IMO operate 'three strikes and you're out' policies: one, you get a warning, two, you're suspended, three, you're out. Simple. Some kids would still misbehave but a lot would think twice

I also think the education system needs an overall so that kids actually LIKE learning. Practical skills like carpentry and plumbing are being lost as more and more just get degrees. Your standard GCSE's aren't suitable for a lot of today's school kids. I think there should be an opportunity for them to do the core subjects (English Maths and Science) alongside a GNVQ type qualification. My mum's school is operating this scheme for the most troublesome kids and its really working: they're actually learning and coming to school, because they're doing something they WANT to do that will lead to a relevant qualification

quote:

Originally posted by Unchained:

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Wipey:
Thats as maybe but at least I know that its Y-O-U-'-R-E that makes you are and that Y-O-U-R spells your

Are you an English teacher?

No I teach in a primary school.

P.E.?

i agree bring back the cane, although when i have kids i wouldnt want them to get hit with it, we didnt have it when i was at school and we we're perfect, think it would of done us alot of good

quote:

Originally posted by cindarella88:
i agree bring back the cane, although when i have kids i wouldnt want them to get hit with it, we didnt have it when i was at school and we we're perfect, think it would of done us alot of good

Some people today are a bit ‘kinky’ and may behave badly because they enjoy pain and actually look forward to the cane!

quote:

Originally posted by Wobbletastic:
Some people today are a bit ‘kinky’ and may behave badly because they enjoy pain and actually look forward to the cane!

what school children...

Yeah probably... if kids these days can go a week without knifing someone they get a prize! See they're all messed up, they need punishments too!

As an old 84 year-old codger I am amused (and dismayed) by the comments people make about the use of the cane in school in the past. Of course being caned is nasty, but since it has been abandoned no one has come up with a better alternative. What punishment is given today for serious offences? Not a lot.
When I was fourteen, seventy years ago, I took a blank-cartridge pistol to school. I shoved in the chest of a school-mate and growled "Stick-em up!" The pistol went off and made powder burns on his face. His mother was not amused, and came to the school and demanded that I be caned, and insisted on being present while I was. This was a public school and canings for serious offences were dealt with by the headmaster, and were given on the bare bottom. I was given four strokes.
I felt at the time, painful as it was, that I deserved what I was given, and I still do today. I cannot imagine what sort of punishment would be given to a boy today for the same offence.

What is the point of suspending a child from school? Dont they actually like that? All it means is a nice long lie-in, take time with breakfast (and probably a fag!!) then play on the computer games...playing right into their hands i would have thought!

quote:

Originally posted by Wobbletastic:
Yeah probably... if kids these days can go a week without knifing someone they get a prize! See they're all messed up, they need punishments too!

i agree wobbletastic i agree total!

if the cain was around when i was in school .theres no way i would have been as cheeky . and id learnt more.

Yes, I'm sure you would have learned more. You might have even learned how to spell "cane". !

or maybe not , its been mentioned correctly spelled several times in this thread , if someone cant spell it correctly after reading it infront of them then they cant spell it , would a cane in the thread pose some sort of insentive ?

Yes; bring back the cane. It was only abolished when the loonies took over the asylum; they didn’t like it at school so it “must be unpleasant for children”. Punishment usually is…

It is efficient and quick, deprives the child of no free time or other activity, costs nothing, inconveniences no-one ( especially parents ), and can be tailored to fit the “crime”. It is neither abusive nor violent and should not be confused with such qualities. It is punishment…and punishment is NOT nice…you could even say that’s the whole point of punishing someone…

I would apply it only for the most serious offences, and as a last resort. It should be strictly controlled, administered by only one person in the school ( or perhaps one of each sex ), preferably witnessed by one other member of staff, and closely monitored by independent means. Above all, it should apply equally to all; regardless of race, colour, creed, or sex.

We were beaten in school, and it certainly taught you not to repeat the behaviour. Things were different in those days – and a bare bum was the norm for slipperings etc., but you wore undies for the cane. It was only ever administered by the Headmaster or deputy. I would cane only over full clothing.

I would bring back the birch too – for some of the young thugs who roam the streets…ASBOS my foot .

when people were at school tehy were children , thus to say they didnt like school so think children find it unpleasant is correct . if a child finds something unpleasant and is heard once they grow up then no inverted commars are needed it was - you show knowledge taht it was by saying punishment isnt suposed to be nice.

it costs money to get the cane from where ever the tree is the cane comes from and get it to the classroom
other punishments are free , how much does detention cost again ? but you want a punishment that will most certainly not be nice eh ? wont be happy without pain .

didnt a teacher say tehy felt guilty about handing referal slips a while back in this forum thing , that they felt it cruel ? there we go it inconvienances morals and pushs in a dilema via causing pain to punish . who wants the responsiblity of using it .

would it slowly have to be intergrated back into society if ever brought back , or are you going to walk straight up to a teen and insist they have it .

most serious offences only - how chooses these and have they changed over the years .

where would you place teh birch - police stations or schools , you refer to asbos you see and schools dont asist in asbos.


i remain with the opinion the cane should stay away .

quote:

Originally posted by robo_mak:
when people were at school tehy were children , thus to say they didnt like school so think children find it unpleasant is correct . if a child finds something unpleasant and is heard once they grow up then no inverted commars are needed it was - you show knowledge taht it was by saying punishment isnt suposed to be nice.

it costs money to get the cane from where ever the tree is the cane comes from and get it to the classroom
other punishments are free , how much does detention cost again ? but you want a punishment that will most certainly not be nice eh ? wont be happy without pain .

didnt a teacher say tehy felt guilty about handing referal slips a while back in this forum thing , that they felt it cruel ? there we go it inconvienances morals and pushs in a dilema via causing pain to punish . who wants the responsiblity of using it .

would it slowly have to be intergrated back into society if ever brought back , or are you going to walk straight up to a teen and insist they have it .

most serious offences only - how chooses these and have they changed over the years .

where would you place teh birch - police stations or schools , you refer to asbos you see and schools dont asist in asbos.


i remain with the opinion the cane should stay away .

The quotation marks were quite correct because I was referring to the matter in the third party.

I would supply a cane free of charge to any school [able] to use it.

Punishment = pain of some form; whether it be physical, emotional, inconvenience or financial - not to mention loss of liberty. It is a fact of life, and always has been. However, physical pain, whilst often the most serious, tends to last for a lesser time whilst having the greater effect; another fact of life.

People who cannot affect punishment when it is required deserve what they get. Nobody "likes" to punish children; but it is an occupational hazard. If you don't like it, don't teach - and don't have your own kids because they will inevitably fall to someone else to discipline.

Announce the return of the cane in good time so that all may get used to the idea - like any Statutory change is always introduced.

No - serious offences have not really changed over the years, but I would not advocate the use of the cane in some of the minor ones that individuals may have done so in the past. It's not beyond the wit of most to agree on suitably serious offences to warrant serious punishment...it's done all the time in real life.

I never suggested that ASBOs were relate to schools - even though they can be. I would keep the birch in a police station; but not leave it to the police to decide upon its use, however.

ok?

so who will pay for the amount it would cost to get teh canes , which i assume wont be readily waiting in england , or at any rate in the school, to the schools if not the schools. i ask this because it may not cost alot to transfer one cane to a school, but how many schools are there ?
if out of taxes then should not it be being taken out of the taxes that would go on education anyway thus effectivly leaving the balance and the school to pay for itself once again.
however i can see that this one cost wouldnt seem much if you were considering its useage too.

punishment - of many forms so why does it need to be physical ?
if to last a shorter time then i really dont see how people are put out with the current systems.

people who can affect it deserve it ? is taht a typo or something ? because if you have no control over something it doesnt automatically mean you deserve it . african children can hardly affect poverty yet tehy dont deserve it.

for you to feel teh need of the cane to be brought back - you must have reason , so dont you personally feel that peoples behaviour has got worse and so serious offences may have changed if so ?
if they havent why would teh cane be a nessasary if kids arent worse .
who is teh most who agree on teh seriousness of offences to warrant caning.

if the police shant decide upon its useage, do you not trust them.
so police and teachers arent deciding teh useage - is teh goverment then - do you trust them - if people dislike their judgement then

*if people dislike the judgement they would try and affect it what if tehy cant - by your statement means they deserve any punishment tehy get

"Affect" was indeed a typo - for which I apologise. The original text was done in Word and I deleted a section...but missed that word.

I apologise.

It should, of course, have read; "administer".

They tried reserecting the cane in state schools a few years ago in NSW, Australia and it bombed spectacularly. The trouble was while teachers agreed with the idea in principle none of them was prepared to do the actual caning and, as already intimated, parents wanted the cane reintroduced for everyone else's kids but not their own. These days the parents of the sort of kids who would benefit most from a good hiding or two'd be the first up the school to bash the living daylights out of any teacher who dared smack their little darling!

Oh and to the person who doubted kids would deliberately manipulate a situation to get the cane - I certainly know a couple of teenaged self confessed spankophiles (not me, lol) who'd pretty likely do something like that.

T T

quote:

Originally posted by Texel Tup:
They tried reserecting the cane in state schools a few years ago in NSW, Australia and it bombed spectacularly. The trouble was while teachers agreed with the idea in principle none of them was prepared to do the actual caning and, as already intimated, parents wanted the cane reintroduced for everyone else's kids but not their own. These days the parents of the sort of kids who would benefit most from a good hiding or two'd be the first up the school to bash the living daylights out of any teacher who dared smack their little darling!

T T

Yes, TT, it is so often the parents who are to blame. Kids are not born "bad"...

No I dont think it should be brought back.It didnt make a diffence.What good came out of hitting kids with a stick?And most old people these days have just turned out worse than some young people.

quote:

how much does detention cost again ?

Err, when you stop and think about it, prolly more than half a dozen smacks with a cane!
How much does a cane cost? about 50p 'round these parts.
How much does it cost to pay a teacher to supervise kids in detention? Dunno but I reckon it'd be more than 50p!

Texel Tup