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It seems to me the only people who would be against a return to the cane, are the ones who at present stand to be first in line for a good beating.
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I am still not convinced that use of corporal punishment would make much difference to crime rates or much school behaviour.
Having said that, I think there is always something to be said for making an example of someone "pour encourager les autres". The most obvious example of poor role models to young males are premiership footballers. Their lifestyles often suggest it is okay to use your wealth to flaunt unacceptable behaviour. Such footballers know that (i) any fine they receive is probably minor next to their enormous earnings and (ii) a manager under pressure to stay up is not going to drop a player just because of bad behaviour off the field. Accordingly, there is no real sanction for their bad behaviour.
As I say, its an exception to the usual position in my view, but I do wonder if those particularly bad apples - eg Joey Barton, Lee Bowyer would modify their behaviour if under their club rules they could be in line for corporal punishment for certain, serious offences. It might show at least a line had been drawn and they cannot always get away from the consequences of their actions.
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quote: Originally posted by TAWright:
I am still not convinced that use of corporal punishment would make much difference to crime rates or much school behaviour.
I disgaree. Of course the change would not be instant, but over a period of time it would undoubtedly happen. There is no doubt whatsoever that the drop in school discipline is proportional to the reduction in effective means of punishment - and that started back when CP was abolished. Of course we always get the whimpers that "violence begets violence" - but I can distinctly remember the strange "lack" ( of cousre there was some ) of it back then. Not - I submit - a coincidence. |
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quote: Originally posted by TAWright:
I am still not convinced that use of corporal punishment would make much difference to crime rates or much school behaviour.
Having said that, I think there is always something to be said for making an example of someone "pour encourager les autres". The most obvious example of poor role models to young males are premiership footballers. Their lifestyles often suggest it is okay to use your wealth to flaunt unacceptable behaviour. Such footballers know that (i) any fine they receive is probably minor next to their enormous earnings and (ii) a manager under pressure to stay up is not going to drop a player just because of bad behaviour off the field. Accordingly, there is no real sanction for their bad behaviour.
As I say, its an exception to the usual position in my view, but I do wonder if those particularly bad apples - eg Joey Barton, Lee Bowyer would modify their behaviour if under their club rules they could be in line for corporal punishment for certain, serious offences. It might show at least a line had been drawn and they cannot always get away from the consequences of their actions.
I personally do think the schools would be better. I was amazed at work when several of the young ones have told me that they got into fights with teachers, knowing that not much would happen to them. A couple even told me they threw chairs at them With the threat of a beating, in my days at school this did not happen and indeed most of us were smacked fpr bad time keeping, sloppy work etc. Although that is over the top may be, the punishent out weights the crime surely it would be good for thiefs, bullies, vandals. I doubt any would like the pain and surely it would cut down on bad crimes once and for all. |
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Insight and Jumbo Jimbo - I think I am somewhere inbetween the 2 arguments. I also don't buy the argument that corporal punishment leads to violence especially if carried out dispassionately. My concern is more that the return of corporal punishment is presented as a solution to young criminal behaviour. I just don't believe it could work like that. It may seem a better to know that a young vandal has had his backside caned or birched but if it is to operate as an alternative to a young offenders' institute/prison then he is likely to be out on the streets sooner.
In terms of evidence, I wonder what difference it may to the Isle of Man in terms of criminal behaviour by young men before and after the birch was abolished there. I think it needs concrete evidence to deal with this otherwise it can become a red herring.
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quote: Originally posted by TAWright:
Insight and Jumbo Jimbo - I think I am somewhere inbetween the 2 arguments. I also don't buy the argument that corporal punishment leads to violence especially if carried out dispassionately. My concern is more that the return of corporal punishment is presented as a solution to young criminal behaviour. I just don't believe it could work like that. It may seem a better to know that a young vandal has had his backside caned or birched but if it is to operate as an alternative to a young offenders' institute/prison then he is likely to be out on the streets sooner.
In terms of evidence, I wonder what difference it may to the Isle of Man in terms of criminal behaviour by young men before and after the birch was abolished there. I think it needs concrete evidence to deal with this otherwise it can become a red herring.
Of course I can see your point but you are talking more I feel of birching and state beatings than school thrashings I feel. When it comes you young peoples offenders institutes etc I feel that may be they should be flogged before they do the time inside. Not done to lesson the time they spend in an institution just extra to the punishment. That way then surely beatings would be a big detterant to many offenders. |
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teaching is one of the most stressful jobs goin these days - no longer is it the cushy little number it was of yesteryear - and NO I am not a teacher but I work in a profession that knows about the stresses teachers face - one of the reasons is the disrespect they get from the students. When I went to school (back in the day) we got hit with canes, slippers, rulers and the teachers hand. As a 7 year old I was caned by the teacher for not knowing the answer to a question in class. I had a hardbacked exercise booked banged of my head cos the teacher forgot I was sat at the front desk when he went to bang the book of the desk to get everybodys attention! As I got older I also got the cane for 'larking about' in the class. I wasnt a bad kid, quite the reverse but I still managed to fall foul of the punishments. There are pros and cons with regards to bring back the cane. We were disciplined more in days gone by but sometimes, as Ive mentioned above, we were disciplined unnecessarily in my opinion - if only there was a happy medium to be obtained
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I don't have a quirky message !!!!
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